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Pistol Pemit Changes

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My friend in NJ just went to get a pistol permit in his town and things have changed a lot in a year. It used to be if you were applying within a year of your last permit you had a shorter list of things that you neeeded. Now that is all gone. Now every time you apply you need the following.

1 State Police check ( not needed before)

2 Mental Health check ( not needed before)

3 birth certificate ( not needed before)

4 drivers license 

5  2 reference letters ( now they check every time , never sent them out in the past seven years offer the original was sent the first time)

6 Employment verification letter ( new)

7  list of places you lived the last 10 years ( new )

8 doctors letter if needed

Form also says if you have been treated for any psychiatric condition you need a clearance letter from the doctor.

Also includes a list of things that you can be denied for. Depression meds will fail you. Also says if it would not be in the interest of public health, safety or welfare to posses a firearm. That last one is scary because how do you define that, also that it is so vague. Also seems if you got a ticket for fireworks as a juvenile you can be denied.

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doesnt look like anything changed to me.

sb212  state police check

sp066  mental health

10 yrs residency   on sp066

reference letters always there,   mine are sent every time

 

birth certificate might be if theres no DL

 

sounds like the same old to me ,since the inception of the permit process.   am i missing anything?

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2 hours ago, Redlines said:

My friend in NJ just went to get a pistol permit in his town and things have changed a lot in a year. It used to be if you were applying within a year of your last permit you had a shorter list of things that you neeeded. Now that is all gone. Now every time you apply you need the following.

1 State Police check ( not needed before)

2 Mental Health check ( not needed before)

3 birth certificate ( not needed before)

4 drivers license 

5  2 reference letters ( now they check every time , never sent them out in the past seven years offer the original was sent the first time)

6 Employment verification letter ( new)

7  list of places you lived the last 10 years ( new )

8 doctors letter if needed

Form also says if you have been treated for any psychiatric condition you need a clearance letter from the doctor.

Also includes a list of things that you can be denied for. Depression meds will fail you. Also says if it would not be in the interest of public health, safety or welfare to posses a firearm. That last one is scary because how do you define that, also that it is so vague. Also seems if you got a ticket for fireworks as a juvenile you can be denied.

EVERY time I have ever applied for a pistol permit, regardless of the last time I applied for one, I have needed 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7. If his town is requiring the other things on the list, he should challenge it. They're not allowed to require more than what the NJSP requires. All the forms that are required are available here: https://www.njsp.org/firearms/forms.shtml.

The NJSP background check request is done online now, though. You request and pay for it online ($20) and bring the receipt to the municipality.

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Also, as to the Mental Health records search, they ONLY check mental health records at hospitals/inpatient facilities if you indicate you have been treated at one of those places.  They also ALWAYS check with the county clerks office to see if you have been committed to an institution on an INVOLUNTARY basis. If you indicate that you saw a doctor or shrink for counseling they don't even contact them.

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3 hours ago, Redlines said:

My friend in NJ just went to get a pistol permit in his town and things have changed a lot in a year. It used to be if you were applying within a year of your last permit you had a shorter list of things that you neeeded. Now that is all gone. Now every time you apply you need the following.

1 State Police check ( not needed before)

This would be the Non-criminal background check - SBI 212A, which is now done on-line. $20

2 Mental Health check ( not needed before)

This would be SP-066 and has always been required

3 birth certificate ( not needed before)

Added condition - Illegal

4 drivers license

Just needed for ID 

5  2 reference letters ( now they check every time , never sent them out in the past seven years offer the original was sent the first time)

The PD is trying to get you to do their job. As part of their required background investigation they can send letters to the references you list on the STS 033, but to require you to distribute and return them is an added condition and thus illegal. My township used to do this but stopped when ANJRPC sent out the letters to the PD's.

6 Employment verification letter ( new)

Same as #5 - there is a field on the STS 033 for employer information. That info is to be used by the investigating PD to verify employment only - not as a defacto reference, nor should the reason for verification be disclosed to your employer. It is not incumbent upon you to supply such a letter - added condition - illegal

7  list of places you lived the last 10 years ( new )

As a stand alone condition (separate form?) this is illegal. The SP 066 requires previous addresses if less than 10 years at your current address. Legal within this context and only as part of SP 066

8 doctors letter if needed

This might be to your benefit if you answered question 26 on the STS 033 in the affirmative. It would just be pro-active

Form also says if you have been treated for any psychiatric condition you need a clearance letter from the doctor

Again, can't be required, but as above may be to your benefit. Without such a letter you will be denied.

Also includes a list of things that you can be denied for. Depression meds will fail you. Also says if it would not be in the interest of public health, safety or welfare to posses a firearm. That last one is scary because how do you define that, also that it is so vague. Also seems if you got a ticket for fireworks as a juvenile you can be denied.

These reasons are at the discretion of the issuing PD and things like the depression meds or juvenile record could be appealed upon denial. They are trying to preclude application for things that could be successfully appealed if application is made - they are short-circuiting the system.

These are some of the most blatant abuses of the system and this PD needs to be reported to the ANJRPC.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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2 hours ago, MeanGene said:

What’s a mental health check? Who performs it? What are they looking for? Is there a form? I’m a psychologist and haven’t heard of this. 

I see how MH professionals will be taking on a risk here and they may not like that.

See Matthew Lutz's response, but I want to add that this is the most time consuming check and the only legitimate reason for the extended issuance time some people report.

It is my understanding that this is a manual records search - not automated, no comprehensive database - and is done for each county in which you have lived for the past ten years - hence the requirement for prior addresses on the SP 066. The more places you have lived within the last ten years, the longer the search process lasts.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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4 minutes ago, Pizza Bob said:

These are some of the most blatant abuses of the system and this PD needs to be reported to the ANJRPC.

I agree.

@Redlines - if you or your friend need more info, here's the link: https://www.anjrpc.org/page/A_Strikeforce

BTW, ANJRPC is admittedly pretty horrible about "feedback" - but I know for a fact they do follow-up on these cases that are brought to their attention. 

I've also come to learn that sometimes these problems are simply related to a new officer coming into the firearms role in that department, and they don't fully know what they're doing. Often times, a quick phone call from one of the ANJRPC lawyers is enough to get things back on-track. I'm just saying, it's not always malevolent by any means... occasionally it's just lack of training and an overzealous employee, etc. But, shooters do a good deed for the entire community when you "flag" issues like this... so please encourage your friend to report this!

3 minutes ago, Redlines said:

Letter to employer states you are getting a gun.

F2104F63-0A9E-4A01-87A6-EAA6F3C00F86.jpeg

YIKES!! Make sure they include that PDF in their email.

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With regard to added conditions:

Many of these requirements are in direct contravention of 2C:58-3,f which states, in part: There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

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I've attached the findings of Jeremy Perez - vs - Patterson, NJ that address a situation similar to the OP's. IANAL and don't know if this is precedence setting - but it should be.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Jeremy-Perez-vs-Patterson-NJ-for-a-Firearms-Purchaser-Identification-Card.pdf

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53 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I agree.

@Redlines - if you or your friend need more info, here's the link: https://www.anjrpc.org/page/A_Strikeforce

BTW, ANJRPC is admittedly pretty horrible about "feedback" - but I know for a fact they do follow-up on these cases that are brought to their attention. 

I've also come to learn that sometimes these problems are simply related to a new officer coming into the firearms role in that department, and they don't fully know what they're doing. Often times, a quick phone call from one of the ANJRPC lawyers is enough to get things back on-track. I'm just saying, it's not always malevolent by any means... occasionally it's just lack of training and an overzealous employee, etc. But, shooters do a good deed for the entire community when you "flag" issues like this... so please encourage your friend to report this!

YIKES!! Make sure they include that PDF in their email.

I call bullshit on that, New Officers are directed by a supervisor as to what is expected of their duties. No one walks into a role without being given guidance... Otherwise, if they did their own due diligence, the NJSP firearms unit would tell them exactly what they are required to do. These additional forms are often created by the chief of police who have no issues violating the law. When threatened with legal action, they comply. It's been too long since operation compliance started for any department to claim ignorance. That is simply an excuse, and a departments ability to create plausible deniability. 

My actions would be as follows, and i would work up the ladder, point out the violation and threaten legal action.

Contact the officer who is in charge of firearms permits/ID's, 

Contact his supervising officer. 

Contact the Chief

Contact the Mayor and city council 

 

You wouldn't need a call from a lawyer to straighten this out if it was simply a single officer who wasn't trained correctly. 

 i wouldn't say just contact the ANJRPC, but now I would want to see just how many people in this process are willing to break the law, and who would be willing to right the wrong. You could also get this moving along before the ANJRPC makes contact with them.

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36 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

These additional forms are often created by the chief of police who have no issues violating the law. When threatened with legal action, they comply.

FYI, the first part of my message was written before I saw the form (the system merged my 2 messages - the second msg started with "YIKES!..." after I saw the letter).

I maintain that sometimes there are mistakes due to ignorance, poor training etc., but I agree THIS CASE looks far more egregious than a simple screw-up - these are "extra" requirements that are simply not allowed by law (and, most troubling to me, an invasion of privacy with regards to letting the employer know WHY the check is being done) - and the signature block of the Chief is right on there for all to see. So, this case does appear to be rather intentional.

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I didn't even see that!!! 

It's just been my experience, and that of friends, that anytime this has been an issue it went all they way up to the chief of police, and sometimes even the Mayor. We've always tried to "educate" them on the issue, and every time it went no where... unless you have an example where this was fixed without going through a legal channel. 

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3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

unless you have an example where this was fixed without going through a legal channel. 

No, I was relaying what I've heard about ANJRPC handling these cases - that some of the situations they encountered were purely ignorance & got straightened out with a quick phone call without any pushback. I'm not aware of where non-lawyer individuals have been able to accomplish the same... (that's not saying there haven't been cases though... just that I'm just not aware of them).

But, honestly? Would it surprise me that lawyers get a better result that ordinary citizens? No! Yeah, it SHOULDN'T be like that in an ideal world... but all government entities (police depts. or otherwise) pay more attention when a lawyer calls. It is what it is! It's a litigious world and people don't want to get sued. So, why not leverage that? That service isn't restricted to ANJRPC members as far as I know - so why not use it? 

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11 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

unless you have an example where this was fixed without going through a legal channel. 

Golf Battery was advising a friend in an adjacent township about applying for an FPID and found several additions to the process. I wrote a letter to the chief of police and the mayor. They not only responded but dropped all the illegal additions immediately upon receiving my letter. Just ignorance of the law. When I politely pointed out the discrepancies and the statutes that forbade them, they were very appreciative and cooperative. So no, it doesn't always take legal intervention.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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OTOH, I wrote a similar letter to the township attorney in the municipality where I live, pointing out where they were in violation of the issuance statutes. I got a reply that he had reviewed the contentious areas and made the determination that they were acting within the law. Two years later ANJRPC sent out their letters, at which point my local PD stopped the illegal activities that I had pointed out previously. So, in that instance, a letter from a lay person, even though correct, carried less weight than one from an attorney.

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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Hillsborough... not surprised... As the towns get more liberal... you have more of these forms.

Absolutely send this to any of the 2A organizations here.

Jersey City has been doing this and unfortunately don't care.  Their form even had to have your boss notarize the form saying you are okay to buy a gun. lol. 

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MODS - suggest you "sticky" the below - it's a link to a directive from the previous A.G. directly telling towns to cut it out with the extra forms.

Redlines, your friend can try bringing the below directive issued directly from the previous Attorney General of NJ to the attention of the Hillsborough chief of police, and if no traction gained there, the mayor:

http://www.nj.gov/lps/dcj/agguide/directives/2016-4_Permits-to-Carry-Firearms_Directive.pdf

Page 2, middle of 2nd paragraph (my emphasis added, any typos are probably mine):

Quote

 

... Police agencies serving in the capacity of firearms licensing authorities are prohibited from applying different policies and standards reflecting local or personal views for the appropriate regulation of civilian firearms, and are prohibited from requiring the submission of forms or the provision of information that goes beyond the the items of information authorized by N.J.S.A.  2C:58-3(e), the State Police application forms, or judicial authority interpreting the law. ...

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23 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Bayonne is now requiring you to fill out the forms online and print them yourself. 

About a year ago old bridge made you start printing them yourself online and bringing your own copy of your drivers license.

They don’t require any extra forms though. 

 

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:10 AM, MeanGene said:

What’s a mental health check? Who performs it? What are they looking for? Is there a form? I’m a psychologist and haven’t heard of this. 

I see how MH professionals will be taking on a risk here and they may not like that.

Check to see if involuntarily committed for psych evaluation I believe.  Generally one of the longest items to receive approval before you get permit (or so I was told when I applied).

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