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Medical Marijuana = No Permits

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So, technically you can be a drunk and buy as many guns as you want but God forbid your subscribed medical marijuana for the pain and want a 38 special revolver for self defense.  Ridiculous 

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@Ray Ray being an alcoholic is also a disqualifier.

I see no problem with him being denied.  I think the benefits of medical marijuana are overplayed and exaggerated.  Arthritis is one of the ailments marijuana is claimed to help for example.  I can name maybe a dozen drugs used to treat arthritis and I'm sure there are many more. None of them work and marijuana does?  I didn't just fall off a cabbage truck.

I think "Gun Owners for Legal Marijuana" doesn't help our cause.  It can only be used against us.

 

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I don't know.... I have NOT smoked pot in over 20 years or so but this whole argument that it is some scary drug and classified the same as heroin and PCP is ridiculous. Hopefully, Trump does something right and declassifies it as a schedule 1 drug. I agree with Ray.

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18 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

There are medical uses for hemlock and arsenic too but you can't buy them OTC.

ER visits in states like CO are up from people who smoke the potent weed sold in "green cross" marijuana stores.

This is most likely true and I wont dispute that. You could say the same thing about opioids which were prescribed by a doctor and sold at your local Wallgreens or CVS pharmacy.

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6 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

There is zero evidence that someone high on Marijuana commits gun crimes.  Other, REAL, drugs?  Yes.  Alcohol?  Yes.  

That may be true, and not really an argument I’d want to go into (no dog in that fight). Whatever it is, still considered a Schedule I narcotic...

That is where you either need to change that classification or the 4473. Better chance of the former, because your “real” drugs are on the same question.

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14 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

IMHO the Federal Govt needs to reclassify cannabis more like alcohol, regulating and taxing it rather than prohibiting it.

It's now legal (and regulated/taxed) in how many of the 50 states?

LOL I am not sure why I posted on this topic now I am seeing amazon ads for Medical Marijuana stuff..

Anyway according to wikipedia the number of states that have made it entirely legal are 10 + the district of Columbia. For medical its almost half. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction

 

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1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said:

IMHO the Federal Govt needs to reclassify cannabis more like alcohol, regulating and taxing it rather than prohibiting it.

It's now legal (and regulated/taxed) in how many of the 50 states?

 

potheadmap.JPG

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59 minutes ago, carl_g said:

LOL I am not sure why I posted on this topic now I am seeing amazon ads for Medical Marijuana stuff..

Anyway according to wikipedia the number of states that have made it entirely legal are 10 + the district of Columbia. For medical its almost half. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction

 

As long as it is a Schedule 1 drug, it is not entirely legal, despite what state laws say.

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3 hours ago, fishnut said:

But no one died. Can't say the same for alcohol. 

People dying from alcohol poisoning is not common.  Those that do often is because of their own stupidity like "watch me chugalug this 1.75 of vodka".

How many people have died because a driver was stoned?  We don't know because there is no way to determine how much THC is too much.  No way to determine if they smoked last week or 10 minutes ago.

Whilst there is no one I heard of dying from an overdose of THC there are undoubtedly people who died from doing something stupid while stoned.  Just like people who died while doing something drunk.

 

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1 hour ago, Fred2 said:

As long as it is a Schedule 1 drug, it is not entirely legal, despite what state laws say.

The problem is marijuana has no justification for being a Schedule 1 drug.

"Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are". - Hm, nope

"Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence." - Nope

"Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV." - That'd still be a huge stretch.

"Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence." - I guess you could argue for that. But hell, if you told someone how easy a lot of people get addicted to alcohol without saying the drug is alcohol, people would probably call it at least Schedule III. Yet having a few beers per night is okay but smoke some weed to relax and suddenly you get treated like a felon? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

31 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

People dying from alcohol poisoning is not common.  Those that do often is because of their own stupidity like "watch me chugalug this 1.75 of vodka".

How many people have died because a driver was stoned?  We don't know because there is no way to determine how much THC is too much.  No way to determine if they smoked last week or 10 minutes ago.

Whilst there is no one I heard of dying from an overdose of THC there are undoubtedly people who died from doing something stupid while stoned.  Just like people who died while doing something drunk.

There are always idiots who drive impaired whether it's alcohol or weed or painkillers. And it's a damn shame that innocent people die as a result. I just find it hypocritical that there are so many people who rally against weed because people might get high and drive but have no problem knocking back a few beers before getting behind the wheel.

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2 hours ago, Screwball said:

That may be true, and not really an argument I’d want to go into (no dog in that fight). Whatever it is, still considered a Schedule I narcotic...

That is where you either need to change that classification or the 4473. Better chance of the former, because your “real” drugs are on the same question.

I do not dabble in narcotics, alcohol, cigarettes, cigars, cannabis or whatever else helps poor decision making.  Been there-done that.

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17 minutes ago, Greenday said:

The problem is marijuana has no justification for being a Schedule 1 drug.

"Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are". - Hm, nope

"Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence." - Nope

"Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV." - That'd still be a huge stretch.

"Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence." - I guess you could argue for that. But hell, if you told someone how easy a lot of people get addicted to alcohol without saying the drug is alcohol, people would probably call it at least Schedule III. Yet having a few beers per night is okay but smoke some weed to relax and suddenly you get treated like a felon? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

There are always idiots who drive impaired whether it's alcohol or weed or painkillers. And it's a damn shame that innocent people die as a result. I just find it hypocritical that there are so many people who rally against weed because people might get high and drive but have no problem knocking back a few beers before getting behind the wheel.

This country is filled with stupid laws.

Unfortunately, the stupid ones count as much as the good ones. Until Pot is off Schedule 1, it is not legal in this country.

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

People dying from alcohol poisoning is not common.  Those that do often is because of their own stupidity like "watch me chugalug this 1.75 of vodka".

Correct, but we weren't talking about dying just ER visits. I'd be willing to wager that there are more ER visits for alcohol poisoning than for people consuming to much pot. 

I do agree that's regardless of what the states say it's still federally illegal but I have a strong feeling that it will be legalized in the next 10 years if not sooner. 

My only reservation for legalization is that an accurate road side sobriety test similar to a breathalizer is needed before legalization. Driving while under the influence is bad no matter what the substance. 

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1 hour ago, Greenday said:

The problem is marijuana has no justification for being a Schedule 1 drug.

I don’t disagree... but as it sits, disagreeing with the law doesn’t change it. You can say the sky is green all day, doesn’t mean it is.

I’m going to be working a border where Maine is ok with it, and Canada is ok with it (signed that two days after I took the offer). Went up there two weeks back, and both sides have signs saying you are not allowed to bring it across. While both sides are ok with it, crossing an international border isn’t ok. You get caught with it, it is contraband... whether Canada or Maine says it isn’t or is.

NJ can say it is legal, doesn’t change the question on the 4473, which was edited to make it that much more clear.

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

I do not dabble in narcotics, alcohol, cigarettes, cigars, cannabis or whatever else helps poor decision making.  Been there-done that.

I’ve never tried weed, don’t do drugs (was prescribed Vicodin for wisdom teeth removal; took one because the doctor said to... and laughing/drooling at the dinner table was enough for me), rarely drink, and don’t smoke... if others want to do that, their decision.

But as it sits, smoking weed is a disqualifier for buying a firearm. So is lying on a Federal form (4473), and state forms (firearm applications). Only way that is changing is if Congress changes its status... because Murphy can only really change state law. If people really want to smoke weed, that is the avenue they need to go down to not have their gun rights restricted. Is it important to most potheads? Probably not.

Personally, couldn’t give a s*** either way.

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25 minutes ago, Screwball said:

If people really want to smoke weed, that is the avenue they need to go down to not have their gun rights restricted. Is it important to most potheads? Probably not.

Personally, couldn’t give a s*** either way.

Agreed on both points.

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7 hours ago, Greenday said:

 Yet having a few beers per night is okay but smoke some weed to relax and suddenly you get treated like a felon? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

There are always idiots who drive impaired whether it's alcohol or weed or painkillers. And it's a damn shame that innocent people die as a result. I just find it hypocritical that there are so many people who rally against weed because people might get high and drive but have no problem knocking back a few beers before getting behind the wheel.

@Greenday I can argue your rewriting of the Drug Schedule but I'll address your more moronic statements.

If you get caught "smoking some weed to relax"  you are not a felon.  I worked in law enforcement well before you were born and usually simple possession got you a fine, no jail time other than how long it took you to make bail.  Now many jurisdictions just give you a summons.

More on that later in this post.

There is a big difference between "knocking back a few beers" and smoking weed.  If you have so many beers over a certain period of time you know how much that affects you.  As I said earlier there is criteria established for blood alcohol levels that make you impaired. No such criteria exists for marijuana intoxication.  If you go to the "medicine" store in Denver and decide you're going to try the more potent Katmandu Kush.  There are many varities that have been developed to give you the biggest kick.  You have no idea what it's going to do to you.  I know what 2 beers does to me. That's a big difference.

Crime and marijuana?  Police in many recreational marijuana states are just as busy chasing street dealers.  Why are they still in business?  They can provide weed at lower prices than the stores.

There is also the myth that legalization will result in lower crime.  Contrary to what many say prisons are not filled with non-violent drug offenders.  Do you think that gang member who sold your friend some weed who sold it to you will give up a life of crime if it's legalized?  If marijuana is legalized do you think the marijuana dealer will reform, get an education and become a scientist for NASA?  Or will they just find some other crime to get involved in?

If the street dealer is an illegal alien Governor Murphy wants to pay their tuition.  The won't have to deal with student loans.

 

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13 hours ago, carl_g said:

This is most likely true and I wont dispute that. You could say the same thing about opioids which were prescribed by a doctor and sold at your local Wallgreens or CVS pharmacy.

I think the real cause of the opiod problem is the people who they are prescribed to not the doctors.  I have been been prescribed a variety of opiods for pain for different medical conditions over the years.  WhIle the prescription may say 1 every 8 hrs for pain I never took it that often. I only took it when it really hurt bad.  I had a demerol on demand drip after one surgery.  Don't know if they still do that.  If it really hurt and I used the demerol.  If not I didn't.

I never used any opioid other than prescribed for severe pain.  If it didn't hurt that bad I just sucked it up.  I never had any withdrawl.

I think the current opiod crisis is the result of our kinder more gentle society.  People feel they shouldn't hurt at all and keep popping the pills.  There are people with addictive personalities.  JMO.

I was sitting outside a "green cross" store in Colorado.  Oddly enough waiting for a NICS check to go through at a gun shop next door.  This guy parked near me and he was jonesing like a heroin addict.  He walked into the weed store and came out in a minute or two.  As soon as he got outside he filled his pipe and deeply inhaled.  His reaction of relief was similar to a heroin addict feeling the rush when mainlining.  Physically addictive? Psychologically addictive?  Don't know but this guy was addicted AFAIC.  He smoked the pipe, refilled it, lit up, got in his car, and drove away blowing weed.

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On 1/14/2019 at 4:51 PM, Ray Ray said:

I do not dabble in narcotics, alcohol, cigarettes, cigars, cannabis or whatever else helps poor decision making.  Been there-done that.

NJ wants you to shut up, get high and wasted and eat government cheese forever

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17 hours ago, GRIZ said:

I think the real cause of the opiod problem is the people who they are prescribed to not the doctors.  I have been been prescribed a variety of opiods for pain for different medical conditions over the years.  WhIle the prescription may say 1 every 8 hrs for pain I never took it that often. I only took it when it really hurt bad.  I had a demerol on demand drip after one surgery.  Don't know if they still do that.  If it really hurt and I used the demerol.  If not I didn't.

I never used any opioid other than prescribed for severe pain.  If it didn't hurt that bad I just sucked it up.  I never had any withdrawl.

I think the current opiod crisis is the result of our kinder more gentle society.  People feel they shouldn't hurt at all and keep popping the pills.  There are people with addictive personalities.  JMO.

I was sitting outside a "green cross" store in Colorado.  Oddly enough waiting for a NICS check to go through at a gun shop next door.  This guy parked near me and he was jonesing like a heroin addict.  He walked into the weed store and came out in a minute or two.  As soon as he got outside he filled his pipe and deeply inhaled.  His reaction of relief was similar to a heroin addict feeling the rush when mainlining.  Physically addictive? Psychologically addictive?  Don't know but this guy was addicted AFAIC.  He smoked the pipe, refilled it, lit up, got in his car, and drove away blowing weed.

The first bottle, you may have a point.. The second, third fourth etc.... that becomes a systemic prescribing issue. 

 

To your last paragraph.... how do you know he wasn't suffering from a medical condition? I don't agree with the driving part, tho. There isn't really any question to the addictiveness of pot, it is purely habitual. Taking a snap shot of someone's life and trying to analyze it isn't very productive in this conversation. We're getting into some hardcore reefer maddness here if were even going to start with comparing it to heroin.... 

Shit, i know women who cant relax without their nightly glass of wine, or people i literally cant talk to until they have their morning coffee.

At the end of the day, we all do things that alter our mood, habitually.. I'm sure there are people here who get worked up if they don't go shooting regularly... 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/12/28/512201.htm

 

Quote

Crashes are up by as much as six percent in Colorado, Nevada, Oregon and Washington, compared with neighboring states that have not yet legalized marijuana for recreational use, according to research from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI).

Colorado and Washington were the first states to legalize recreational marijuana for adults 21 and older with voter approval in November 2012. Retail sales began in January 2014 in Colorado and in July 2014 in Washington. Oregon voters approved legalized recreational marijuana in November 2014, and sales started in October 2015. Nevada voters approved recreational marijuana in November 2016, and retail sales began in July 2017.

I'm surprised it's only 6 percent to be honest.

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