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HBecwithFn7

Adopt or Die?!?

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No, the title is not a typo! It's something I've been thinking about for some time, especially in re: a Pro-2A context. Bear with me here, and I'll explain.


It seems to me that we pro-2A folks are (and have been) in a population "numbers battle" with the antis and progressives. And, right now, it appears we aren't doing all that well. It looks like there are a lot more of them than there are of us... at least on the surface. The antis/progressives just keep on "procreating" and "procreating" and leaving us in the dust. Populations are moving into *our* states and turning them purple, and then eventually blue. And by having control of both the education system and the MSM, the numbers of antis/progressives just keep multiplying. But I'm also wondering if we can't fight fire with a little fire of our own, here. Can we not increase our own numbers the same way the anti's are, and teach our kids to think for themselves while, at the same time, instilling our values of freedom and liberty (the very values on which this country was founded)? And, of course, a good healthy like and respect for 2A! But how to increase our numbers so quickly?

In my recent YouTube travels, I had stumbled upon some videos (suggested by YouTube... why I don't know...) depicting both the struggles but, more so, the triumphs of couples adopting young children (mostly females) from (mostly) China. This, I guess, to ease the overpopulation in China (which led to things like the "one child" policy). Apparently, these parents are so proud of the efforts they made to adopt a child from China that they documented the whole process and posted it on YouTube. Some even post update videos of the kid at as late as 9-10 years of age. Don't know if I'd ever do that (the YouTube part, that is)... I'm much more of a "privacy" freak, I guess. grinning.gif I might film it, but I'd never post it. Still, it was interesting to see a couple of trends from the videos I watched. Many of them had a religious undertone, implying that the family's decision to adopt was a "divine" one... one inspired by God. You can see evidence of that not only in their choices of background music or the narrative captions in the videos (many being bible verses), but even in how they interact with the kids (i.e. singing religious songs to them and teaching them to sing them in return). And, although most of this activity seemed of the Christian persuasion, I don't doubt there are other equivalent efforts in other faiths. But I digress, here.

Point being, could this (adoption) be a way for us pro-2A folks to increase our numbers a bit more, and help us even the numbers out, if not increase them? Would you be willing to adopt a child or two to help make our numbers larger? Sadly, I don't think I'd be able to as I doubt I'd qualify as an adoptive parent by China standards (I'm an older single male.... I understand that China changed their policy and no longer allow single parent adoptions). mad.png I also understand that they've relaxed the one child policy as well, so the international adoption process is more competitive. I know it's a bit of a hassle, but it seemed to bring those parents who stuck it out and were successful so much joy. And we'd have more new folks on *our* side... grinning.gif Thus, if not an international adoption, perhaps a domestic one?


Thoughts?

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I never rule out ANY ideas (LOL)… but I admit I'm a bit squeamish at the thought of adopting children, even in part, for a "political agenda". It should be done purely as a selfless act of love IMO.  

Besides, I think you can accomplish the same goal you're seeking by simply exposing people (even adults) who are already at your elbow... neighbors, co-workers, friends... to your activities/point of view. How about simply being friendly and inviting them to the range? Or you can contribute dollars or volunteer hours to organizations that effectively bring new people into the shooting sports. I also think it's helpful if MORE people in our community write letters to the editor and/or call politicians offices on a regular basis to express their point of view, etc. (making ourselves MORE visible and not so easily ignored). Those steps also require far less commitment and LESS COST than adopting another human and raising them to adulthood! I mean, what's the cost of college tuition these days? ;) 

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You have any idea what it cost to adopt a child? They don't just give them away.

Plus we in NJ only see what surrounds us here.  In America it's different.  When I lived in Texas it wasn't unusual on a lazy weekend to go out in the middle of no where and go shooting.  In Texas it use to be weird if your family didn't have a gun or rifle.

 

 

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I/we are all for adoption and many kids out there that need loving homes and parents.

Having said that... adopting for the sole purpose of generating more gun owners?  I have a struggle with that.

Realisticaly, to get more shooters I think we need to get more guns into people's hands.  We should be supporting the public ranges who are out there as the first place for newbies... most of all, LIBERAL gun folks.  Once we look at gun ownership beyond simply being conservative, we can make more progress on gun rights.

Look at gay rights for instance... Republicans are generally not bible thumping anymore.  We can do the same thing with guns... get more Democrats to pick up guns and realize they are no more harmful than kitchen knives and we can take the "gun control" agenda away from liberals. 

Someone may not be for a limited government, states rights  or pro life.... but they can just as easily enjoy guns and the protections of the 2A.

I think gun owners are making the huge mistake by turning off millions of gun rights advocates by running off anyone interested in guns simply because they are not 100% with the conservative agenda.

 

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7 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I/we are all for adoption and many kids out there that need loving homes and parents.

Having said that... adopting for the sole purpose of generating more gun owners?  I have a struggle with that.

Realisticaly, to get more shooters I think we need to get more guns into people's hands.  We should be supporting the public ranges who are out there as the first place for newbies... most of all, LIBERAL gun folks.  Once we look at gun ownership beyond simply being conservative, we can make more progress on gun rights.

Look at gay rights for instance... Republicans are generally not bible thumping anymore.  We can do the same thing with guns... get more Democrats to pick up guns and realize they are no more harmful than kitchen knives and we can take the "gun control" agenda away from liberals. 

Someone may not be for a limited government, states rights  or pro life.... but they can just as easily enjoy guns and the protections of the 2A.

I think gun owners are making the huge mistake by turning off millions of gun rights advocates but running off anyone interested in guns simply because they are not 100% with the conservative agenda.

 

Werd.

the 2nd amendment clearly said “ the people “ and that is pretty much  all encompassing 

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2 hours ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

Point being, could this (adoption) be a way for us pro-2A folks to increase our numbers a bit more, and help us even the numbers out, if not increase them?

 

2 hours ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

But I'm also wondering if we can't fight fire with a little fire of our own, here. Can we not increase our own numbers the same way the anti's are, and teach our kids to think for themselves while, at the same time, instilling our values of freedom and liberty (the very values on which this country was founded)?

There's no way to adopt enough to make the numbers matter.

Your other idea, teach the existing kids, those numbers are a lot larger. But sadly, that won't work either, very few parents "teach" their kids much these days. Either the kid spends time getting indoctrinated at public school during the day, and when they come home, they bury their faces in their electronic gadgets.

Playstations, iPads and iPhones are the parents today. Electronic babysitting is the way of the world. The parents can't be bothered to teach their kids, they're too busy updating their own Facebook status.

The country is doomed, plan accordingly.

 

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All -  I have been sobered, being reminded of the costs of adoption, these days... often running into the $50-100K range.... What a Freakin' reality check. :facepalm:  I wonder why people would even bother now, unless they're millionaires.   The "costs" are something you don't see (or aren't otherwise referred to) in those YouTube videos. And no wonder.... they would turn people off in a hurry.

Just to clarify, for those who cautioned not to adopt solely for adding more potential pro-2A candidates, I do agree with you and should have worded that a bit more carefully. It is truly an all encompassing decision... one must be truly ready for the responsibility of raising a child (either by natural birth or adoption), and want to take that responsibility on. One must be emotionally and financially prepared for it as well. I would never take that on solely for the purpose of adding 2A Ranks to our side. I'm simply trying to find a way to counter all the additional people being added to the "anti" side by "procreation" & "adoption," etc.  Their numbers are rising.  We need to make our numbers rise as well. And not just for 2A reasons. We need people who are going to become responsible adults that are "Freedom & Liberty" oriented, unlike those who just simply want all that "free stuff" and expect others to pay for it. 

The other concern (and why I was trying to focus on bringing in more "youth,") is that our side does seem to be more heavy on the ""senior" end of the spectrum.  We need more youth in our base to counteract that.  We also need more minority and other bases as well. The more our numbers grow, and the more we engage the existing numbers we have, the more able we are to fight this and win.

 

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47 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

You have any idea what it cost to adopt a child? They don't just give them away.

Plus we in NJ only see what surrounds us here.  In America it's different.  When I lived in Texas it wasn't unusual on a lazy weekend to go out in the middle of no where and go shooting.  In Texas it use to be weird if your family didn't have a gun or rifle.

Unfortunately, i think you'll find Texas has changed a bit.... especially near Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, etc.   And Florida certainly has changed a lot.  The progressives are coming here and bringing their ways with them.  We barely squeaked by this past 2018 election, and we lost the DOACS chair to a democrat (DOACS is the Dept. that overseas CC licenses in FL). It won't be long before "the rest of America" will look just like NJ does, now.

Unless we do something about it.

 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

I raised 2 children around guns and shooting and sent them off to college. They came back left wing antis!:mad:

You really have no control over their eventual political leanings.

Ahhh, you should have let me know, I would have loaned you my special tool, I don't need it anymore. :mosking:

It works great for "Attitude" adjustments.

depositphotos_119661490-stock-photo-cart

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47 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Realisticaly, to get more shooters I think we need to get more guns into people's hands.  We should be supporting the public ranges who are out there as the first place for newbies... most of all, LIBERAL gun folks.  Once we look at gun ownership beyond simply being conservative, we can make more progress on gun rights.

I do that every chance I get. But I'm finding that once kids become adults and have been flushed through the education system we have today, they're going to be set in their anti/progressive ways. I was hoping that by increasing the very young, we could do a little molding and getting them to think for themselves, before they get all that other "indoctrination."   That, and it will also help us with the aging in our ranks as well.

47 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Look at gay rights for instance... Republicans are generally not bible thumping anymore.  We can do the same thing with guns... get more Democrats to pick up guns and realize they are no more harmful than kitchen knives and we can take the "gun control" agenda away from liberals. 

A true Herculean effort when these folks have already been brainwashed by the education system and the MSM.  A much harder thing to do I think than changing mindsets on LGBTQ rights. 

47 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I think gun owners are making the huge mistake by turning off millions of gun rights advocates but running off anyone interested in guns simply because they are not 100% with the conservative agenda.

I agree. And we have several members on my Florida forum that are quite liberal and espouse that to the hilt, but are also pro-2A. And I don't dismiss their veracity on either point. They liven up the discussions! :D  My own niece and nephew probably fit that category.  I'll take them for 2A's sake for sure. But I will be cautious.

 

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2 minutes ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

I do that every chance I get. But I'm finding that once kids become adults and have been flushed through the education system we have today, they're going to be set in their anti/progressive ways. I was hoping that by increasing the very young, we could do a little molding and getting them to think for themselves, before they get all that other "indoctrination."   That, and it will also help us with the aging in our ranks as well.

A true Herculean effort when these folks have already been brainwashed by the education system and the MSM.  A much harder thing to do I think than changing mindsets on LGBTQ rights. 

I agree. And we have several members on my Florida forum that are quite liberal and espouse that to the hilt, but are also pro-2A. And I don't dismiss their veracity on either point. They liven up the discussions! :D  My own niece and nephew probably fit that category.  I'll take them for 2A's sake for sure. But I will be cautious.

 

Some are brainwashed, but I think it is also a stereotype we have as conservatives.

BUT... when it comes to guns, there is still a lot of opportunity.

I was recently at a Wedding Expo helping out my brother.  There, Gun For Hire had a booth.... it was packed... full of happy liberals who were looking forward to shoot guns at a bachelor/bachelorette party.

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10 minutes ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

But I'm finding that once kids become adults and have been flushed through the education system we have today, they're going to be set in their anti/progressive ways. I was hoping that by increasing the very young, we could do a little molding and getting them to think for themselves, before they get all that other "indoctrination." 

This is very, very true.

The "molding" has to happen between the ages of 2 to 7, if a kid doesn't have a solid footing on what's right and wrong, along with stable moral values, principals and responsibilities at that age, they're subject to outside "molding".

This is why I referenced electronic babysitting above. Kids today are NOT getting the teaching at home they need, which leaves them like a sailboat without a sail, open to any breeze that comes along. The socialist school systems are winning, unfortunately...

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51 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Your other idea, teach the existing kids, those numbers are a lot larger. But sadly, that won't work either, very few parents "teach" their kids much these days. Either the kid spends time getting indoctrinated at public school during the day, and when they come home, they bury their faces in their electronic gadgets.

Any effort made would require a solid commitment from the parents - without that we are toast no matter what we do (as far as kids go).

I'd be willing to put in that effort.... I just wish more parents would be as well.

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15 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

What's the sense? I raised 2 children around guns and shooting and sent them off to college. They came back left wing antis!:mad:

You really have no control over their eventual political leanings.

Perhaps you sent them to the wrong college?  :D

Seriously, I realize we are limited in our choices for conservative oriented higher education but, hopefully, we can teach or own kids, otherwise.

 

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I think you also are under estimating how many gun owners there are.  Obama was the best gun salesperson in recent history!  I realize gun owners generally own multiple firearms and are responsible for some of those numbers.  But a LOT of first time purchasers are in there as well.

I think the MSM under estimates the number of firearm owners as well.  When they do their polling how many people who own firearms are responding that they don't own firearms?

Yes, we should do more to increase our numbers but I don't think It's as dire as you think.  Just because they are passing or trying to pass anti laws doesn't mean people are or will comply.  There are LOTS of laws people ignore.  Recreational drug use, speeding, allowing illegal immigration, hiring illegals, prostitution, etc,.etc.  

 

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8 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

I think you also are under estimating how many gun owners there are.  Obama was the best gun salesperson in recent history!  I realize gun owners generally own multiple firearms and are responsible for some of those numbers.  But a LOT of first time purchasers are in there as well.

I think the MSM under estimates the number of firearm owners as well.  When they do their polling how many people who own firearms are responding that they don't own firearms?

Yes, we should do more to increase our numbers but I don't think It's as dire as you think.  Just because they are passing or trying to pass anti laws doesn't mean people are or will comply.  There are LOTS of laws people ignore.  Recreational drug use, speeding, allowing illegal immigration, hiring illegals, prostitution, etc,.etc.  

 

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4233336-shot-show-2019-2018-nics-data-show

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1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

I think you also are under estimating how many gun owners there are.  Obama was the best gun salesperson in recent history!  I realize gun owners generally own multiple firearms and are responsible for some of those numbers.  But a LOT of first time purchasers are in there as well.

I think the MSM under estimates the number of firearm owners as well.  When they do their polling how many people who own firearms are responding that they don't own firearms?

Yes, we should do more to increase our numbers but I don't think It's as dire as you think.  Just because they are passing or trying to pass anti laws doesn't mean people are or will comply.  There are LOTS of laws people ignore.  Recreational drug use, speeding, allowing illegal immigration, hiring illegals, prostitution, etc,.etc.  

 

I think the accuracy of polls is also location oriented. But, just because you are a shooter doesn’t make you a conservative or a constitutionalists  I.e Avb or Greenday. It jus makes you a shooter. Kinda a fudd syndrome if you will.

( I’m not disparaging those 2 or 3 examples, and merely suggesting we focus on the commonality). “ well, we have that in common “

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1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

I think you also are under estimating how many gun owners there are.  Obama was the best gun salesperson in recent history!  I realize gun owners generally own multiple firearms and are responsible for some of those numbers.  But a LOT of first time purchasers are in there as well.

I think the MSM under estimates the number of firearm owners as well.  When they do their polling how many people who own firearms are responding that they don't own firearms?

Yes, we should do more to increase our numbers but I don't think It's as dire as you think.  Just because they are passing or trying to pass anti laws doesn't mean people are or will comply.  There are LOTS of laws people ignore.  Recreational drug use, speeding, allowing illegal immigration, hiring illegals, prostitution, etc,.etc.  

 

That's true... There may be many more gun owners than we know of.  But how many of them are active and voted for candidates that support 2A?  If there are so many more of us gun owners than we think,  why then did HRC win the popular vote?  And why did we here in FL just squeak in getting the republican Gov. DeSantis elected as well as Republican Rick Scott for FL Sen? And why did a democrat (Nikki Fried) win over a republican for the DOACS commissioner office?  Because not all of those who own guns participated in the elections or they voted for other candidates. This is why I feel we need to increase our numbers.... number of "active" participants in the strugle to support 2A. It does us no good to have all those gun owners if they don't vote to support candidates that will help us.... The dems come out in full force and vote as one... We need to do the same.

 

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This thread should be deleted. The concept people adopting children to raise the numbers of  a group interest is absurd. As a parent of 3 adopted children (adopted as infants, grown adults now) this seems as bad as people becoming foster parents just for the government checks. And to brainwash kids, adopted or not,  into becoming gun advocates, or any other special interest advocates seems sick. What's next, if it turns out they don't agree with you they get sent back? I have to ask, did you raise your kids to think only your way?  I know I raised mine to think for themselves, consider all points of view and decide whats best for them. They turned out great and fortunately enjoy shooting. I know I'll probably get some grief over this post but this thread just struck a cord with me.

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Maybe to say this should be deleted was a little strong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I certainly don't want to tread on anyone's freedom of speech rights, I just think adopting for any other reason than to offer a better life to a child that may otherwise not know one is wrong. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

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1 hour ago, MB24 said:

Maybe to say this should be deleted was a little strong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I certainly don't want to tread on anyone's freedom of speech rights, I just think adopting for any other reason than to offer a better life to a child that may otherwise not know one is wrong. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

My only point in starting the thread was this...  There are a number of different theories as to how many of "us"  there are (i.e how many conservative, pro-constitution, pro-2A folks).  Even more theories as to how many of "us" are defending our rights & values actively.  Likewise, there are the same for those who are anti-gun, anti-constitutional.  Point being, I see the numbers of "anti" folks rising... well beyond "our" numbers, it seems. I'm only suggesting that we need to increase our numbers accordingly, or we will be lost.  

Yes, there are many ways to increase our numbers.  Converting people on the fence, inviting people to the range,  fighting for changes to the education system, etc. etc. But also to instill those conservative/pro-constitutional values onto our own children...  It's important to teach our children as we pro-2A folks are getting older, and that's one reason why the numbers are dwindling.  I had been watching some suggested YouTube videos on International Adoptions (primarily China), and I had wondered if "adoption in general" is something that folks like "us" might do, for whatever reason.

While I would never advocate "adoption" for any primary purpose other than what you stated (i.e. the sheer desire to provide a better life for a child who might not have one otherwise), one positive of "us" doing so is that we'd have more people (and, specifically, young people) to which we can pass our values of freedom, liberty and the US Constitution. I was just wondering what the feeling was about adoption among us "pro-2a/const" folks are, keeping in mind that one remote benefit is that we have the potential to raise those children with our values...

That's all.

 

 

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