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JMich3

Should safety class be a permit requirement?

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I played hooky from work yesterday so i went to the range for the first time in a while. A couple came in at the same time i did and were in the port next to me. From the get go they had no clue. They opened there case on the back counter and started pulling 2 brand new pistols out. The RO was right there and told them the proper procedures for unpacking. 

They loaded up and stared with a target at 15 yards. The guy fired an entire magazine and never hit the paper. The woman stepped in and hit the ceiling with second shot and i took shrapnel to the hands. At that point the RO stepped in, showed them proper grip and how to shoot. They started hitting the paper and then the woman shot the ceiling again. At that point i left. 

Im just curious why there isn’t some sort of welcome to shooting class that would be mandatory unless you can prove prior knowledge ( military, LE) . I wasn’t scared being next to them but I’ll admit i was very alert. 

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Training a requirement at a range? .. it's the ranges discretion .. it's there place their rules.  I personally would feel a bit more confident and secure in my surroundings if I knew that everyone around me shooting had at least a basic lesson. As long as they are not using it to force a PAID training class on you that is.  Thats why I tend to go to the range during members only hours more than any other time of the day. being less crowded during those times doesn't suck either :)  Sure you can always get a member who is a yahoo or an idiot.. but at least it's not the wild west of uncertainty.

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The RO was on top of them as soon as she started to un  snap their gun case. He basically was at their shoulder. He actually did very well with them. The guy was hitting a decent pattern by the time i split. Not to be sexist but the woman was scary. Anytime i feel i can have positive input i take the chance. I am pretty new to shooting too, but i know what’s safe and what’s not. Although i did get spoken too for putting my VP9 with the slide in battery. Momentary lapse on my part. The pistol had no magazine . 

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3 minutes ago, JMich3 said:

The RO was on top of them as soon as she started to un  snap their gun case. He basically was at their shoulder. He actually did very well with them. The guy was hitting a decent pattern by the time i split. Not to be sexist but the woman was scary. Anytime i feel i can have positive input i take the chance. I am pretty new to shooting too, but i know what’s safe and what’s not. Although i did get spoken too for putting my VP9 with the slide in battery. Momentary lapse on my part. The pistol had no magazine . 

Everyone is new once

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Should training be required?

To get an FID?  No.  There are many who simply collect guns and have no intentions of shooting them.  In either case, Gun Ownership = RIGHT.  We cannot place conditions to those.

To shoot at a range?  YES!  This is partly why I am very hesitant at shooting at public ranges.

 

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6 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

State-required?  F no

Range required?  Maybe/probably as long as it’s not onerous (in time or money) and it should have to ability to “test out” for experienced folks who just haven’t been to that range before.

And I should clarify... by training I mean the people have to be able to show they can SAFELY use a firearm, i.e. not sweeping across the line, able to control the recoil and not drop the gun and to generally be able to identify when something is wrong and to STOP.  Whether they can shoot a 1MOA group or can barely hit a piece of paper.... that I don't care about.

Way tooo often we go to public ranges just to get someone sweep the line with a loaded gun.

And it is NOT just newbies.  The most dangerous folks are the guys and gals who have owned guns for some time and can comfortably shoot them... but take foregranted that things can go wrong.

Typically that is the time in between you are a new shooter and until you have your first... 1. Squib, 2. ND, or 3. Get swept by some other person and you recognize it.

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29 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

State-required?  F no

Range required?  Maybe/probably as long as it’s not onerous (in time or money) and it should have to ability to “test out” for experienced folks who just haven’t been to that range before.

What are the training requirements in your moms basement?

( I’m sorry I cannot help myself! Lmao!)

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18 minutes ago, Maksim said:

 

And it is NOT just newbies.  The most dangerous folks are the guys and gals who have owned guns for some time and can comfortably shoot them... but take foregranted that things can go wrong.

 

Correct them and they get offended " I know what I'm doing , been shooting for a long time , yada , yada , yada "

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1 minute ago, Contrvlr said:

Correct them and they get offended " I know what I'm doing , been shooting for a long time , yada , yada , yada "

"I can totally appreciate you being committed to safety and that is the number one priority here.  Doing XYZ is not safe because ABC."

If they get offended to that, they should not be shooting OR get the range owners involved.

"Your rights end where my nose begins."  John Loche

Generally though, most gun owners are just fine and have yet to have someone be douchey.

But this is also why I love shooting matches... no one is above anyone else when it comes to safety and anyone can call seize fire and there are clearly defined safety rules. 

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1 hour ago, Maksim said:

This is partly why I am very hesitant at shooting at public ranges.

 

22 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Way tooo often we go to public ranges just to get someone sweep the line with a loaded gun.

I agree with you, that's also why I'm not really comfortable at public ranges either. It just takes one small error by the guy in the next stall or table..... and it could really ruin your day.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

I agree with you, that's also why I'm not really comfortable at public ranges either. It just takes one small error by the guy in the next stall or table..... and it could really ruin your day.

 

The good thing is though, many of the indoor ranges have the option of putting in bullet proof barriers in between stalls. I do wonder how many of them take that option though.  Action Target certainly pushes it at the shows. 

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1 minute ago, Maksim said:

The good thing is though, many of the indoor ranges have the option of putting in bullet proof barriers in between stalls. I do wonder how many of them take that option though.  Action Target certainly pushes it at the shows. 

Indoor stalls are really getting old too. Being "locked" into a 3 foot wide closet, only able to shoot a paper squares get boring too. Plus, when the knucklehead in the next stall takes out his .223, that just makes all the more "fun".

This is why I'm searching for some private property in the area to buy. So we can set up our own range, with different types of targets and different tactical situations. That would be a lot more interesting and have more freedom.

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1 minute ago, Sniper said:

Indoor stalls are really getting old too. Being "locked" into a 3 foot wide closet, only able to shoot a paper squares get boring too. Plus, when the knucklehead in the next stall takes out his .223, that just makes all the more "fun".

This is why I'm searching for some private property in the area to buy. So we can set up our own range, with different types of targets and different tactical situations. That would be a lot more interesting and have more freedom.

Too bad you are not in America....

There is an 80 acre plot of land for sale here.

 

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14 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Too bad you are not in America....

Only a little bit longer, until wifey's mom takes a dirt-nap, then we're gone...

14 minutes ago, Maksim said:

There is an 80 acre plot of land for sale here.

I'm packing my bags and on my way!!!!!!!

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Should you have to have training to get a permit?

Hard to answer because I first have to accept that it's okay to require a permit.  But, no!  Requiring training is an infringement on the right to keep arms.

Can a range require training to use the range?  Yes.

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You never know who's next to you, unless you know them, is it a newbie or someone with experience? Thinking a range should have a basic safety course for 1st timers or have it on your ID card that your good to go.

just read today that someone shot them self in the leg at RTSP today. Don't know if it was a experienced or inexperienced person. 

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30 minutes ago, Bklynracer said:

You never know who's next to you, unless you know them, is it a newbie or someone with experience? Thinking a range should have a basic safety course for 1st timers or have it on your ID card that your good to go.

just read today that someone shot them self in the leg at RTSP today. Don't know if it was a experienced or inexperienced person. 

Yikes... where did you find that?

Shot in foot?  Humn... wonder if drawing from holster or someone pointed gun where they were not supposed to.

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4 hours ago, Sniper said:

Indoor stalls are really getting old too. Being "locked" into a 3 foot wide closet, only able to shoot a paper squares get boring too. Plus, when the knucklehead in the next stall takes out his .223, that just makes all the more "fun".

This is why I'm searching for some private property in the area to buy. So we can set up our own range, with different types of targets and different tactical situations. That would be a lot more interesting and have more freedom.

Join sjsc and become a rso.  Outdoor range and more options 

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1 hour ago, Bklynracer said:

just read today that someone shot them self in the leg at RTSP today.

Here's the story:

A man "accidentally" shot himself in the leg Wednesday afternoon while at a gun range in Randolph, police said.

The condition of the man, whose name was not released, was unknown Thursday, but there was no indication in the initial report that his injury was life-threatening, Lt. Christopher Giuliani said.

"It was definitely accidental," Giuliani said. "He was on the range and was holstering his gun when it went off and shot him in the leg."

https://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/crime/morris-county/2019/01/17/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-leg-randolph-gun-range/2598351002/

 

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And this is why there's concern with ranges:

A 21-year-old man shot himself and died at the range in 2015. Two months later, a 28-year-old man also shot himself and died at the range. Both deaths were ruled to be suicide and isolated incidents.

What if they wanted to take someone else "with them" standing nearby?

 

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1 minute ago, Sniper said:

And this is why there's concern with ranges:

A 21-year-old man shot himself and died at the range in 2015. Two months later, a 28-year-old man also shot himself and died at the range. Both deaths were ruled to be suicide and isolated incidents.

What if they wanted to take someone else "with them" standing nearby?

 

I don't think in ANY of the suicides at the public ranges in the last 10 years did they ever want to take anyone elses life.

 

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