Hollow Point Bullets

[almiz111 26]

I reload (223) 68gr HPBT and (308) 168gr HPBT. Being in NJ I would like to stop this.

So what performance bullets are NOT HP?? And who says which are which?? Does it have to say   'HP' on the box??

Example. Hornady ELD MAtch. Hole in tip with chunk of red plastic stuffed in.  The hole is hollow, no?

Thanks for any advise.

 

 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Much has been written about whether Hornady polymer tipped bullets are HP's or not, although as far as I know, there has been nothing conclusive either way.  Like so much of firearms law in NJ, you pays your money and takes your chances. 

[Zeke 5,504]

3 minutes ago, almiz111 said:

I reload (223) 68gr HPBT and (308) 168gr HPBT. Being in NJ I would like to stop this.

So what performance bullets are NOT HP?? And who says which are which?? Does it have to say   'HP' on the box??

Example. Hornady ELD MAtch. Hole in tip with chunk of red plastic stuffed in.  The hole is hollow, no?

Thanks for any advise.

 

 

Polymer ballistic tip

[GRIZ 3,369]

Load what you want.  JMO.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

If you fill the hollow points with bacon grease, you're doing double duty:

Making them NOT hollow-pointed anymore

and

Making them much more effective on that certain portion of society who long to meet their 72 virgins.

[Howard 538]

Careful, you are talking about the socialist people's republic of New Germany - placing bacon in a hollow point will probably get you an add on charge of it being a hate crime.

[RichP 115]

FWIW - 99% of the hunting ammo that is used in NJ is a hollowpoint of some sort (obviously not birdshot/buckshot). As a matter of fact, NJ Fish and Game regulations specifically call for " Max. 80 grain Soft or Hollow point " rifle ammo for varmint hunting.

Just my opinion, but I consider any expanding, hollow-cavity bullet a hollow-point; whether or not is is labeled as such, or has a plastic tip. You can buy solid, lathe-turned match bullets, but they will not be cheap and very poor for defense.

 

[Maksim 1,504]

Honestly, I never let the potential of hollow point bullet add on charge to get in the way of health and cleaner holes in paper. 

I completely get using fmj or emfj for home defense gun, but for a target ar or a bolt gun, why? 

Beauty of HP is that there is no exposed lead base, cleaner gun and cleaner lungs. And when shooting paper, much cleaner holes!

i do have some 55gr plated bullets if you want to try.

22 hours ago, almiz111 said:

I reload (223) 68gr HPBT and (308) 168gr HPBT. Being in NJ I would like to stop this.

So what performance bullets are NOT HP?? And who says which are which?? Does it have to say   'HP' on the box??

Example. Hornady ELD MAtch. Hole in tip with chunk of red plastic stuffed in.  The hole is hollow, no?

Thanks for any advise.

 

 

And no... that would be an EFMJ type Bullet at that point. 

[124gr9mm 859]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:08 AM, almiz111 said:

I reload (223) 68gr HPBT and (308) 168gr HPBT. Being in NJ I would like to stop this.

So what performance bullets are NOT HP?? And who says which are which?? Does it have to say   'HP' on the box??

Example. Hornady ELD MAtch. Hole in tip with chunk of red plastic stuffed in.  The hole is hollow, no?

Thanks for any advise.

 

 

 

Maybe I missed something in the recent wave of new legislation, but why would you stop reloading with HP ammunition?

[siderman 1,137]

3 hours ago, RichP said:

FWIW - 99% of the hunting ammo that is used in NJ is a hollowpoint of some sort (obviously not birdshot/buckshot). As a matter of fact, NJ Fish and Game regulations specifically call for " Max. 80 grain Soft or Hollow point " rifle ammo for varmint hunting.

Just my opinion, but I consider any expanding, hollow-cavity bullet a hollow-point; whether or not is is labeled as such, or has a plastic tip. You can buy solid, lathe-turned match bullets, but they will not be cheap and very poor for defense.

 

the judge from the Aitken trial would agree with your opinion.

[almiz111 26]

5 hours ago, RichP said:

FWIW - 99% of the hunting ammo that is used in NJ is a hollowpoint of some sort (obviously not birdshot/buckshot). As a matter of fact, NJ Fish and Game regulations specifically call for " Max. 80 grain Soft or Hollow point " rifle ammo for varmint hunting.

Just my opinion, but I consider any expanding, hollow-cavity bullet a hollow-point; whether or not is is labeled as such, or has a plastic tip. You can buy solid, lathe-turned match bullets, but they will not be cheap and very poor for defense.

 

Pretty much agree with both points.  But telling the cops I was hunting with 308 HP won't fly. No 308 hunting  in NJ.  To / from range no problem. But then you have the accidents,  f ups and so on.  And the big law enforcement sport in NJ is crucifixion.

I just wanted to simplify. No HP in vehicle = no problems with cops.   

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 minutes ago, almiz111 said:

Pretty much agree with both points.  But telling the cops I was hunting with 308 HP won't fly. No 308 hunting  in NJ.  To / from range no problem. But then you have the accidents,  f ups and so on.  And the big law enforcement sport in NJ is crucifixion.

I just wanted to simplify. No HP in vehicle = no problems with cops.   

No guns equals no gun problems too.

[Greenday 323]

I know this thread hasn't been touched in a couple weeks but I'm debating this with my wife. According to the NSJP website, you can bring HP directly to and from the range and your home. As she pointed out, when you look up NJ's criminal code, nothing actually exempts that and people have been prosecuted for just having it in their car.

[Maksim 1,504]

13 minutes ago, Greenday said:

I know this thread hasn't been touched in a couple weeks but I'm debating this with my wife. According to the NSJP website, you can bring HP directly to and from the range and your home. As she pointed out, when you look up NJ's criminal code, nothing actually exempts that and people have been prosecuted for just having it in their car.

I dare you to find anyone whom was prosecuted JUST for having hollow points in the car.

Hollow Points are an add on crime, but you are not going to be prosecuted for simply being pulled over and there are hollow points in the car.

Hollow points are an issue IF you do something else wrong, i.e. murder with hollow points, or High Capacity Mags + Hollow Points... (i.e. Aitken case).

[Greenday 323]

12 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I dare you to find anyone whom was prosecuted JUST for having hollow points in the car.

Hollow Points are an add on crime, but you are not going to be prosecuted for simply being pulled over and there are hollow points in the car.

Hollow points are an issue IF you do something else wrong, i.e. murder with hollow points, or High Capacity Mags + Hollow Points... (i.e. Aitken case).

Sounds about right. Basically my wife's argument comes down to this: there's still cops who will might charge you with the felony in which case you still have to go to trial and fight a felony. You'd have to prove you were going to the range since you are arguing an exemption to the law (which could be tough). So yea...

[124gr9mm 859]

2 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Sounds about right. Basically my wife's argument comes down to this: there's still cops who will might charge you with the felony in which case you still have to go to trial and fight a felony. You'd have to prove you were going to the range since you are arguing an exemption to the law (which could be tough). So yea...

Your wife is arguing a theoretical point.  Nobody has ever been arrested/charged with the scenario she's describing.

 

[Maksim 1,504]

4 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Sounds about right. Basically my wife's argument comes down to this: there's still cops who will might charge you with the felony in which case you still have to go to trial and fight a felony. You'd have to prove you were going to the range since you are arguing an exemption to the law (which could be tough). So yea...

In that case you can make the argument that you can be pulled over and charged for anything at any time.  As other LEO HERE have mentioned... not an issue.   

I weight the risks of that potential VS... the benefits of:  cleaner holes in paper + less lead fowling down the barrel.... (no exposed lead base).

Just now, 124gr9mm said:

Your wife is arguing a theoretical point.  Nobody has ever been arrested/charged with the scenario she's describing.

 

Spot on.

[Greenday 323]

I figured as much but until I actually get into competition shooting, it's not worth the fight. The American Eagle FMJ-BT 62 gr has been doing nicely in the mean time. Good enough to pull off that 4 shot grouping (0.85" at 100 yds) or if you call the one an outlier, 3 shot grouping of 0.5". I do want to try AE 75gr though since my barrel twist is 1:8.

[Maksim 1,504]

29 minutes ago, Greenday said:

I figured as much but until I actually get into competition shooting, it's not worth the fight. The American Eagle FMJ-BT 62 gr has been doing nicely in the mean time. Good enough to pull off that 4 shot grouping (0.85" at 100 yds) or if you call the one an outlier, 3 shot grouping of 0.5". I do want to try AE 75gr though since my barrel twist is 1:8.

Good shooting.

For rifles I would not even worry about it.

For me, handguns are predominantly all hallow points. 

[Underdog 1,593]

Brian Aitken was NOT a criminal and he was charged unconstitutionally, and specifically with unjust laws in which the sentence was excessive and cruel (but that would make sense with an unjust law to begin with and a State that has no concern or respect for honest, law-abiding citizens)   The Hollow Point Ammo was not an add-on crime, it was in addition to.  He was cleared of the gun charges based on the Federal Transportation Law but served time for HP counts until Christy stepped in.  The Schmuck DA could have decided not to charge him but decided to make an example of one of his subjects.  I think Brian still has the felony rap because of his illegal arrest in the Republik.  The threat is very real.  It wll depend on the common sense of the arresting officer, the DA, and the liberal-appointed judge, and then the mercy of the New Jersey residents which might or might not be legal citizens.   I think I would rather play Kalashnikov Roulette than be subject to those odds, in particular faced with a career-driven, over-encroaching, unconstitutionally based, politically-motivated DA and then be subjected to the judgement of  twelve brainwashed,  liberal,  citizens largely lacking common sense and good judgement in a ruling that would unjustly change my life.  But who could blame them being spoonfed by a power-hungry prosecutor and a progressive, politically motivated judge.   Do you think you.d be able to get a jury of 12 peers.  Do you think they would allow any gun owners on the jury (which would really be a jury of your peers).  Even if it is largely an add-on crime, which would never be added on to career (monemaking and violent) criminals, but rather to entrapped honest, hardworking people that have the misfortune to live in the nation's armpit.  

[Underdog 1,593]

How is this man any different than a probable large percentage of our population that might still have some dangerous 11, 12, 13, 14, or even 15 round magazines lying around?  i am not saying he is smart, and I am not saying that he doesn't have problems, issues, etc. but I think I would be mumbling if my life completely changed because of a headlight...

https://www.njherald.com/20181220/army-vet-arrested-with-loaded-gun-in-newton# 

He would have been arrested just for having the HPs, if no firearms were found... Don't kid yourself.  I am sure we are missing some critical elements to this story that were not provided by a one-sided, liberal statist media.  

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, Underdog said:

"The Hollow Point Ammo was not an add-on crime, it was in addition to." 

Not to split hairs here, but that's kind of what an add-on is.  An addition to.

 

[Maksim 1,504]

11 hours ago, Underdog said:

Brian Aitken was NOT a criminal and he was charged unconstitutionally, and specifically with unjust laws in which the sentence was excessive and cruel (but that would make sense with an unjust law to begin with and a State that has no concern or respect for honest, law-abiding citizens)   The Hollow Point Ammo was not an add-on crime, it was in addition to.  He was cleared of the gun charges based on the Federal Transportation Law but served time for HP counts until Christy stepped in.  The Schmuck DA could have decided not to charge him but decided to make an example of one of his subjects.  I think Brian still has the felony rap because of his illegal arrest in the Republik.  The threat is very real.  It wll depend on the common sense of the arresting officer, the DA, and the liberal-appointed judge, and then the mercy of the New Jersey residents which might or might not be legal citizens.   I think I would rather play Kalashnikov Roulette than be subject to those odds, in particular faced with a career-driven, over-encroaching, unconstitutionally based, politically-motivated DA and then be subjected to the judgement of  twelve brainwashed,  liberal,  citizens largely lacking common sense and good judgement in a ruling that would unjustly change my life.  But who could blame them being spoonfed by a power-hungry prosecutor and a progressive, politically motivated judge.   Do you think you.d be able to get a jury of 12 peers.  Do you think they would allow any gun owners on the jury (which would really be a jury of your peers).  Even if it is largely an add-on crime, which would never be added on to career (monemaking and violent) criminals, but rather to entrapped honest, hardworking people that have the misfortune to live in the nation's armpit.  

Let's be honest here... let's stop hiding behind specific things.  I am not discusing whether magazine limits are stupid or not... but...

1. Was Aitken living in NJ?  YES

2. Did NJ have 15 round limits? YES

3. Did Aitken have magazines that were more than 15 rounds?  YES.

So let's be honest with ourselves... he may not be "Criminally guilty" but he sure as hell was not innocent.   EVEN if charges were dropped and he was not charged... he was still breaking the damn law. 

[Maksim 1,504]

9 hours ago, Underdog said:

How is this man any different than a probable large percentage of our population that might still have some dangerous 11, 12, 13, 14, or even 15 round magazines lying around?  i am not saying he is smart, and I am not saying that he doesn't have problems, issues, etc. but I think I would be mumbling if my life completely changed because of a headlight...

https://www.njherald.com/20181220/army-vet-arrested-with-loaded-gun-in-newton# 

He would have been arrested just for having the HPs, if no firearms were found... Don't kid yourself.  I am sure we are missing some critical elements to this story that were not provided by a one-sided, liberal statist media.  

Um... what are you talking about?

"fully loaded handgun with hollow point bullets "

He was transporting a loaded gun.... (Crime 1 in NJ).... and Hollow Points (Add on).

Cut and dry. 

Please find a story where someone was driving and was charged with possession of hollow points when they did not commit ANY OTHER CRIME.

[myhatinthering 462]

well I wish I was on the jury as I would have done jury nullification and said the law was not a just law...boom!

[Maksim 1,504]

10 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

well I wish I was on the jury as I would have done jury nullification and said the law was not a just law...boom!

Oh, no doubts!

That's my issue with many of the cases that the 2A community in NJ gets behind...

Yes, the laws are completely moronic.... BUT... let's be honest, Aitken broke the laws... and so did that woman who drove from PA to NJ with a gun and no CCW.  Yes, the laws are stupid... and YES, they can claim they did not know them... but they are the laws. 

[myhatinthering 462]

22 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Oh, no doubts!

That's my issue with many of the cases that the 2A community in NJ gets behind...

Yes, the laws are completely moronic.... BUT... let's be honest, Aitken broke the laws... and so did that woman who drove from PA to NJ with a gun and no CCW.  Yes, the laws are stupid... and YES, they can claim they did not know them... but they are the laws. 

but we've got cops that don't the laws and they are tasked with enforcing them.  the 'just bring them in and let the attorneys figure it out' has been uttered!

as for the lady and Aitken, those are perfect cases for people to say no to the laws and nullify them

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

3 hours ago, Maksim said:

Please find a story where someone was driving and was charged with possession of hollow points when they did not commit ANY OTHER CRIME.

Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. Possession / Transport of hollow points outside the exemptions can be/and is a stand alone crime. It may be most often used as an add-on, but it isn't stipulated that way in the law.

With the Aitken decision it also put us back into a grey area once again as to what exactly constitutes hollow point ammo. Pre-Aitken we had the letter from the AFTE to the NJSP  (attached) that gave a pretty good idea what is and isn't a hollow point. In the Aitken decision the judge defined prohibited ammo (i.e. hollow points, dum-dums) as any expanding projectile ammunition - which brings just about all ammo into question. What is needed to be known is: Was that decision precedent setting?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

njsp_hollowpoint.pdf

[myhatinthering 462]

19 minutes ago, Pizza Bob said:

Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. Possession / Transport of hollow points outside the exemptions can be/and is a stand alone crime. It may be most often used as an add-on, but it isn't stipulated that way in the law.

With the Aitken decision it also put us back into a grey area once again as to what exactly constitutes hollow point ammo. Pre-Aitken we had the letter from the AFTE to the NJSP  (attached) that gave a pretty good idea what is and isn't a hollow point. In the Aitken decision the judge defined prohibited ammo (i.e. hollow points, dum-dums) as any expanding projectile ammunition - which brings just about all ammo into question. What is needed to be known is: Was that decision precedent setting?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

njsp_hollowpoint.pdf

Great post

[GRIZ 3,369]

4 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

well I wish I was on the jury as I would have done jury nullification and said the law was not a just law...boom!

I'd you were the only hold out on the jury that isn't jury nullification that's a mistrial.  The defendant could be tried again.