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So I went to the range last week on one of the cold days.  While field stripping a Glock the trigger housing pin?  (rearmost pin of the 3 next to the grip) broke.  Not exactly sure how or what happened, but it would seem that the cold weather affected that plastic fantastic part.  I think I heard a chuckle from my 22 revolver.

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I was having feed failures at USPSA matches with my Gen4 Glock 35 for two months.  At times it would be one or two failures in a match, then it went up to one or two on a stage then would be fine.  One Stage it became bang, rack, bang rack, bang rack, bang rack.  Then it worked fine the next stage.  I fully stripped the darn thing and found nothing wrong.  Cleaned it so it was like new, still no fix.  Even tried swapping parts from another Glock.  No luck.  Turns out all of my mags seemed to have gone bad at once.  Not 100% certain yet if it is the feed lips or the springs.  The lips are the correct opening, but they may just be flexing.  The springs do seem a little weak, but I just can't see all of them that have been purchased at different times going bad at once.  Some are 15 round, while others are 15+4.  But I know it is the mags as a friend lent me his and I have not had a single failure in the last three matches.

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On 1/27/2019 at 8:29 PM, Underdog said:

So I went to the range last week on one of the cold days.  While field stripping a Glock the trigger housing pin?  (rearmost pin of the 3 next to the grip) broke.  Not exactly sure how or what happened, but it would seem that the cold weather affected that plastic fantastic part.  I think I heard a chuckle from my 22 revolver.

 

On 1/28/2019 at 8:39 AM, 124gr9mm said:

Interesting.

Do you know how cold it was?

I typically don't do a full takedown unless I'm at home (i don't want to lose any pins at the range).

Why are you guys taking your guns completely apart?  Are they broken?  Do you tear down the engine and transmission on your car every 20,000 miles to detect abnormal wear and cleaning.  Those are the most common reasons people give for a complete takedown.

My G26 is over 20 years old and has at least 30k rounds through it.  It's never broken and the last time it apart was when Glock put it together.  Never taken down past barrel, frame, recoil spring and guide, and slide. I have full confidence in the gun and carry it on a regular basis. Guns are not designed to be taken apart on a regular basis.  Doing so will result in widened pin holes, overstressed parts, and breaking parts even if you know what you're doing and have the correct tools.

I have other guns I've had for over 40 years and have never taken them totally apart.

If you go over all the "my gun broke" threads you will find maybe 90% of them are during a complete teardown for no reason.  The other possibility is it was some aftermarket part like 1/2 ounce trigger or moon metal firing pin that was designed by some guy in his basement in Iowa.  Yes I know there are quality aftermarket parts out there but I think the engineers at the factory have a better idea of what should work in their gun.

I used to oversee several hundred Glocks (17s, 19s, and 26s).   I've personally witnessed exactly 1 part break, a recoil spring guide.  That was because the guy was putting the gun back together the wrong way.  Yes there were magazine issues too mostly from the mags being stepped on.

One of the few reasons I can see for taking a gun totally apart is a milsurp that was packed in grease for the past 60 or 70 years.

I've said all of this before and I'll probably say it again.

 

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2 hours ago, GRIZ said:

 

Why are you guys taking your guns completely apart?  Are they broken?  Do you tear down the engine and transmission on your car every 20,000 miles to detect abnormal wear and cleaning.  Those are the most common reasons people give for a complete takedown.

My G26 is over 20 years old and has at least 30k rounds through it.  It's never broken and the last time it apart was when Glock put it together.  Never taken down past barrel, frame, recoil spring and guide, and slide. I have full confidence in the gun and carry it on a regular basis. Guns are not designed to be taken apart on a regular basis.  Doing so will result in widened pin holes, overstressed parts, and breaking parts even if you know what you're doing and have the correct tools.

I have other guns I've had for over 40 years and have never taken them totally apart.

If you go over all the "my gun broke" threads you will find maybe 90% of them are during a complete teardown for no reason.  The other possibility is it was some aftermarket part like 1/2 ounce trigger or moon metal firing pin that was designed by some guy in his basement in Iowa.  Yes I know there are quality aftermarket parts out there but I think the engineers at the factory have a better idea of what should work in their gun.

I used to oversee several hundred Glocks (17s, 19s, and 26s).   I've personally witnessed exactly 1 part break, a recoil spring guide.  That was because the guy was putting the gun back together the wrong way.  Yes there were magazine issues too mostly from the mags being stepped on.

One of the few reasons I can see for taking a gun totally apart is a milsurp that was packed in grease for the past 60 or 70 years.

I've said all of this before and I'll probably say it again.

 

+1000 on this.  Field stripping a Glock consists of taking off the slide and then removing recoil spring and barrel, that's it.

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6 hours ago, GRIZ said:

 

Why are you guys taking your guns completely apart?  Are they broken?  Do you tear down the engine and transmission on your car every 20,000 miles to detect abnormal wear and cleaning.  Those are the most common reasons people give for a complete takedown.

My G26 is over 20 years old and has at least 30k rounds through it.  It's never broken and the last time it apart was when Glock put it together.  Never taken down past barrel, frame, recoil spring and guide, and slide. I have full confidence in the gun and carry it on a regular basis. Guns are not designed to be taken apart on a regular basis.  Doing so will result in widened pin holes, overstressed parts, and breaking parts even if you know what you're doing and have the correct tools.

I have other guns I've had for over 40 years and have never taken them totally apart.

If you go over all the "my gun broke" threads you will find maybe 90% of them are during a complete teardown for no reason.  The other possibility is it was some aftermarket part like 1/2 ounce trigger or moon metal firing pin that was designed by some guy in his basement in Iowa.  Yes I know there are quality aftermarket parts out there but I think the engineers at the factory have a better idea of what should work in their gun.

I used to oversee several hundred Glocks (17s, 19s, and 26s).   I've personally witnessed exactly 1 part break, a recoil spring guide.  That was because the guy was putting the gun back together the wrong way.  Yes there were magazine issues too mostly from the mags being stepped on.

One of the few reasons I can see for taking a gun totally apart is a milsurp that was packed in grease for the past 60 or 70 years.

I've said all of this before and I'll probably say it again.

 

I still don't understand..A steel pin broke?

That's beyond weird.

And to your point Griz...I won't carry a pistol Yes pistol not revolver, That has been assembled and unfired. Period!

If you look at reliability stats.  The greatest frequency of failure is after assembly.  And yes machinery stats and reliability was my job.  

Yes I carry a dirty pistol.

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6 hours ago, GRIZ said:

 

Why are you guys taking your guns completely apart?  Are they broken?  Do you tear down the engine and transmission on your car every 20,000 miles to detect abnormal wear and cleaning.  Those are the most common reasons people give for a complete takedown.

My G26 is over 20 years old and has at least 30k rounds through it.  It's never broken and the last time it apart was when Glock put it together.  Never taken down past barrel, frame, recoil spring and guide, and slide. I have full confidence in the gun and carry it on a regular basis. Guns are not designed to be taken apart on a regular basis.  Doing so will result in widened pin holes, overstressed parts, and breaking parts even if you know what you're doing and have the correct tools.

I have other guns I've had for over 40 years and have never taken them totally apart.

If you go over all the "my gun broke" threads you will find maybe 90% of them are during a complete teardown for no reason.  The other possibility is it was some aftermarket part like 1/2 ounce trigger or moon metal firing pin that was designed by some guy in his basement in Iowa.  Yes I know there are quality aftermarket parts out there but I think the engineers at the factory have a better idea of what should work in their gun.

I used to oversee several hundred Glocks (17s, 19s, and 26s).   I've personally witnessed exactly 1 part break, a recoil spring guide.  That was because the guy was putting the gun back together the wrong way.  Yes there were magazine issues too mostly from the mags being stepped on.

One of the few reasons I can see for taking a gun totally apart is a milsurp that was packed in grease for the past 60 or 70 years.

I've said all of this before and I'll probably say it again.

 

 

Since you asked, I've taken mine fully down twice.

Once was to install a 3.5 pound trigger bar.

Second time was several thousand rounds later when I started getting fail to fire due to light primer strikes.  Interwebs told me that the most common cause was dirty firing pin channel.  They were right.

Otherwise I do the standard field strip when I notice my fingers getting dirty after shooting.

 

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7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

 

Why are you guys taking your guns completely apart?  Are they broken?  Do you tear down the engine and transmission on your car every 20,000 miles to detect abnormal wear and cleaning.  Those are the most common reasons people give for a complete takedown.

My G26 is over 20 years old and has at least 30k rounds through it.  It's never broken and the last time it apart was when Glock put it together.  Never taken down past barrel, frame, recoil spring and guide, and slide. I have full confidence in the gun and carry it on a regular basis. Guns are not designed to be taken apart on a regular basis.  Doing so will result in widened pin holes, overstressed parts, and breaking parts even if you know what you're doing and have the correct tools.

I have other guns I've had for over 40 years and have never taken them totally apart.

If you go over all the "my gun broke" threads you will find maybe 90% of them are during a complete teardown for no reason.  The other possibility is it was some aftermarket part like 1/2 ounce trigger or moon metal firing pin that was designed by some guy in his basement in Iowa.  Yes I know there are quality aftermarket parts out there but I think the engineers at the factory have a better idea of what should work in their gun.

I used to oversee several hundred Glocks (17s, 19s, and 26s).   I've personally witnessed exactly 1 part break, a recoil spring guide.  That was because the guy was putting the gun back together the wrong way.  Yes there were magazine issues too mostly from the mags being stepped on.

One of the few reasons I can see for taking a gun totally apart is a milsurp that was packed in grease for the past 60 or 70 years.

I've said all of this before and I'll probably say it again.

 

Taking a Glock totally apart is quite different than tearing down an engine.  You are talking about thirty parts versus a thousand or so.  I took the slide totally apart to take the extractor out to check it out and swap it out to see if it might have been the problem.  Also need to do this to clean out the firing pin channel periodically.  When you shoot them a lot in competition they get very dirty.  Took the frame apart to swap out the spring that holds the magazine in place as that could have been a cause of the problem.  I know what I am doing as I have taken the armorers course and have done this on many Glocks.  They are very simple to work on, and very easy to put back together correctly.

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I wasn't taking it completely apart.  Just field stripping it... actually showing a newbie I brought to the range how to field strip it.  The trigger housing pin is polymer.  

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7 minutes ago, Howard said:

  They are very simple to work on, and very easy to put back together correctly.

So are engines if you know what your doing. Yet shit happens, usually due to human error. 

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3 hours ago, Old School said:

I still don't understand..A steel pin broke?

That's beyond weird.

And to your point Griz...I won't carry a pistol Yes pistol not revolver, That has been assembled and unfired. Period!

If you look at reliability stats.  The greatest frequency of failure is after assembly.  And yes machinery stats and reliability was my job.  

Yes I carry a dirty pistol.

Okay, you can't always test fire a pistol that's been field stripped for normal cleaning.  That's why you do function checks to ensure your gun will shoot.  Learned this over 50 years ago.  This was in a situation I KNEW I was going to have to shoot.  Never had any problems with this.  Gun always worked.

I will agree with you to the point I won't carry a gun where that has been totally taken apart because it was broken and/or had parts replaced.  That goes for pistol, revolver, rifle, or any gun.

Carrying a dirty handgun  (pistol pr revolver) is not a good idea as I'll get into.

I've known people that would clean at the range and fire a few rounds to check function.  You can accomplish that with a function check.  This also has its downside.  More later on that later.

I've seen people come out for training and qualification which involved firing 200-250 rounds.  Their attitude was "my gun worked, why clean it".

The next time they came to the range the temperature was in the teens.  The combination of that crud sitting in their gun for several months and the cold temperature resulted in them unable to fire more than 2 or 3 rds at a time.  GI'm cleaned, problems went away.  Letting a dirty gun sit is worse with petroleum base lubricants as they can dry up, evaporate, and/or get gummy over time.

Okay, carrying a dirty gun can work against you.  Say you're approached by Manny, Moe, and Jack who have 2x4s and appear to be ready to split your head open.  You draw, they see your gun, drop their 2x4s, and take off without you firing a shot.  Manny, Moe, and Jack decide tI call police and tell them you took a shot at them.  If your gun is clean that shows they areally lying.  If it's dirty, as Ricky used to tell Lucy, you got some splaining to do.

2 hours ago, Howard said:

Taking a Glock totally apart is quite different than tearing down an engine.  You are talking about thirty parts versus a thousand or so.  I took the slide totally apart to take the extractor out to check it out and swap it out to see if it might have been the problem.  Also need to do this to clean out the firing pin channel periodically.  When you shoot them a lot in competition they get very dirty.  Took the frame apart to swap out the spring that holds the magazine in place as that could have been a cause of the problem.  I know what I am doing as I have taken the armorers course and have done this on many Glocks.  They are very simple to work on, and very easy to put back together correctly.

@Howard I'm pretty familiar with Glocks as I elaborated on above.

Do you take the gun all the way down to individual components as some do on a regular basis?  That's what I'm talking about not taking it apart to fix it.

The crap getting caught in the firing pin channel is not unique to Glocks.  On Glocks and other guns it's caused by people slopping solvent on the interior of the slide and letting the slide sit upside down.  This allows all the crap to flow into the firing pin channel tying it up.  Spritz of Gunscrubber or Brake Kleen washes that stuff out if you do that periodically.  Follow up with a blast of compressed air if available (mainly to blow out the Gunscrubber)  and you never have to take the slide apart.

Are you firing thousands of rounds in competition a day, a week, a month, a year?  If you're firing thousands of rounds between without proper cleaning that's why your firing pin channel gets gummed up.

Not that I recommend it but I know of Glock 9mms that have gone to 170,000 rds  and more without cleaning just to see how long it would take to develop issues.  Zero problems with that round count.

I still believe,

1.  Maintain your gun properly.  Fieldstrip is all that's needed.

2.  Don't carry a dirty gun.

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I agree with you, I don’t take them apart on a regular basis, only when there is an issue.  If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.  Matches are typically 200-300 rounds in my neck of the woods and I’ll shoot one maybe two a week.  As for cleaning I often use non-chlorinated brake cleaner, it is cheap and does an amazing job.  But every few thousand rounds it’s atill a good idea to take the striker out and clean and inspect and same goes for the extractor.  Function checking is good but no substitute for actually putting a few rounds through it.  I would never should a match with a gun I worked on and did not get to fire, and definitely not one that I would carry and might have to use in a life and death situation. 

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24 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The crap getting caught in the firing pin channel is not unique to Glocks.  On Glocks and other guns it's caused by people slopping solvent on the interior of the slide and letting the slide sit upside down...

 

I have no dog in this hunt, and I appreciate your contributions to the forum, but why are you fighting to "be right" here.

I mentioned the firing pin channel so I'll reply that yes, you identified a possible culprit, but in my case totally incorrect.  I don't slop it with solvent right side up or upside down.

I agree that it's not necessary to frequently do a total takedown, but that doesn't mean that one isn't called for or appropriate from time to time.

 

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1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

 

I have no dog in this hunt, and I appreciate your contributions to the forum, but why are you fighting to "be right" here.

I mentioned the firing pin channel so I'll reply that yes, you identified a possible culprit, but in my case totally incorrect.  I don't slop it with solvent right side up or upside down.

I agree that it's not necessary to frequently do a total takedown, but that doesn't mean that one isn't called for or appropriate from time to time.

 

Not fighting to be right.  Sharing information I have that's all.  I base what I say on my experience of looking after a few hundred guns that people relied on.

I mentioned the most common cause of crap in the firing pin channel not all of them.  I would undoubtedly miss a few if I did.

The only time a total takedown is needed IMO is when the gun needs to be fixed.  No need to do it on a regular basis just to do it.

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Again, I was not taking it apart.   I was taking the slide off and the barrel out.  

I thought that was what a field strip meant.  The plastic piece broke.  

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I think one key here not being discussed is also the environment in which the guns are used.

Generally, I will agree, there is no need to completely detail strip a gun, especially for 95% of the gun owners.

These are the guys who take gun from safe to indoor shooting range, shot indoors in 70 degree weather, with no wind.  The guns are almost never going to see a holster and 500 rounds... is A LOT for those guns.

While I am not a Glock fanboy, I am a 1911 believer.  Generally, I will field strip + remove firing pin to clean inside the channel.  This is good enough for 90% of the shooting that I do.

I do however detail strip my 1911 and 2011 guns every so often, and certainly on match days either out west (Nevada) or Florida.

Generally, you are shooting matches, particularly the big ones in all kinds of weather, from rain to snow to blowing windstorms.  Nothing will stop a gun quicker than getting fine sand/gravel in the rails or the trigger mechanism.  

The beauty of a 1911 however is that generally it was designed to be fully stripped using its own parts as tools, so it is fairly simple to take apart and put together, down to the base parts.  Would I do this to my CZs?  HELL NO. lol.

On the other side... I also suspect LEO and most gun owners here  don't shoot crap ammo like Winchester White Box.... THAT crap leaves residue and unburned powder everywhere and truly makes guns filthy.  As they say, garbage in, garbage out.

So @GRIZ I do agree 100% with you when it comes to Glocks for most typical shooters and LEO... but there is certainly a subset of shooters, many of which are here as well, shooting in all kinds of conditions and not afraid to drop their mags to the ground, like @Howard for whom a detailed strip of a fairly simple gun like a Glock is not out of the question.... especially in Florida where every range is essentially sand.  

Prime example of this is what we see every year at Media Day at Shot Show.  An average new gun brought out to be demo'ed will get about 2,000 rounds through it.  Those guns are shot in breezy, windy conditions with crap blowing everywhere.  The guns were also forced to be left out with chambers open and chamber flags.  By the end of the day, a good amount of guns end up either broken or not running right.   Those guns absolutely need to be detailed stripped and cleaned.

Will 99% of guns out there being sold ever get put through those conditions?  Not at all, and I highly doubt 99% of LEO guns would be subjected to such conditions... but there are plenty of shooters who do.  

Just this year... one in our party, an FFL in south jersey broke at least 2 guns...  1 was a 458 Socom AR by a major public manufacturer which was having feed issues end of day.  And I personally shot Glocks, Walthers, Springfields, RIAs and others which gloriously malfunctioned due to lack of cleaning at Media Day over the years. 

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@Maksim FWIW I went through a year in Vietnam and went through a M14 and 2 M16s (one at a time).  I wasnt a Ranger. special operator, or SEAL but these guns saw more abuse and use than many can imagine.

None of them ever saw a "detail strip".  Never saw anyone other than an armorer fixing a gun do a "detail strip".  A bath in solvent and getting a good blast from an air hose cleaned any gun without taking it apart.

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