Seven-alarm fire raging at Marcal Paper building in Elmwood Park

[YankeeSC 1,204]

10 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Incident command was do bad they could not confirm gas or power termination...pseg slow to respond...that the fault of the chief for not escalating quickly enough...   

PSE&G never gives an ETA, regardless of how urgent or critical the situation is ...

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

4 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Wait a second. I was accused of "tin foil" when I pointed that out recently, and that a few guys could never get the jump on local LEOs with that type of action.

Since when do wolves worry about the opinions of sheep....

 

ANYONE who thinks this nation cannot be brought to a screeching halt, with 3 to 5 well timed attacks....is an idiot.

 

Here is one for ya......lincoln tunnel evening rush hour leaving nyc....four cars twelve men....

 

First two enter ny side....with proper timing ten min or less later two.more enter...via radio coordination ....car one crosse double line near nj side....men exit and detonate vehicle...two hold the vheicle to prevent fire police rsponse.... the other four proceed to move quickly through the tunnel torching vehicles and occupants...at the same time the same event is happening in the ny side and the lone pa cop sitting in the booth is taken out.....between shooting...ied's car fires and carnage...what do you think will happen ...  lets play wargame some more...

 

Lets say they are organized and well funded enough to do this at the battery tunnel....queens midtown...  and on the brooklyn..manhattan...queensboro..triborough and gw....

 

Lets say they are soooo motivated and funded that this is now done similiarily in boston baltimore chicago san fran etc....

Tin foil?  Sure.....

Just like this plant has been in elmwood park for how long?....And they seemed like they had no idea how to attack it or fight it cause they didn't know the ground well enough...they went to aerial containment to surround and try to drown....why?  Cause they never played the scenario out cause they never thought like a 'tin foiler'...

 

Keep wearing ur hat...itll keep u alive.....

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Keep wearing ur hat...itll keep u alive..... 

Lighten up Francis, I was agreeing with your original post. A couple of well motivated groups could completely paralyze a urban area.

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

And they seemed like they had no idea how to attack it or fight it cause they didn't know the ground well enough..

Hmmm, sounds just like a recent discussion here regarding H.D. and weapon lights.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

15 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Lighten up Francis, I was agreeing with your original post. A couple of well motivated groups could completely paralyze a urban area.

Hmmm, sounds just like a recent discussion here regarding H.D. and weapon lights.

I know..  lol

 

And i meant it for real keep expecting the unexpected and unthinkable.....

 

Francis hahahahaahah

[Sniper 6,372]

14 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I know..  lol

 

And i meant it for real keep expecting the unexpected and unthinkable.....

 

Francis hahahahaahah

One of my favorites!

[Maksim 1,504]

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Since when do wolves worry about the opinions of sheep....

 

ANYONE who thinks this nation cannot be brought to a screeching halt, with 3 to 5 well timed attacks....is an idiot.

 

Here is one for ya......lincoln tunnel evening rush hour leaving nyc....four cars twelve men....

 

First two enter ny side....with proper timing ten min or less later two.more enter...via radio coordination ....car one crosse double line near nj side....men exit and detonate vehicle...two hold the vheicle to prevent fire police rsponse.... the other four proceed to move quickly through the tunnel torching vehicles and occupants...at the same time the same event is happening in the ny side and the lone pa cop sitting in the booth is taken out.....between shooting...ied's car fires and carnage...what do you think will happen ...  lets play wargame some more...

 

Lets say they are organized and well funded enough to do this at the battery tunnel....queens midtown...  and on the brooklyn..manhattan...queensboro..triborough and gw....

 

Lets say they are soooo motivated and funded that this is now done similiarily in boston baltimore chicago san fran etc....

Tin foil?  Sure.....

Just like this plant has been in elmwood park for how long?....And they seemed like they had no idea how to attack it or fight it cause they didn't know the ground well enough...they went to aerial containment to surround and try to drown....why?  Cause they never played the scenario out cause they never thought like a 'tin foiler'...

 

Keep wearing ur hat...itll keep u alive.....

I would be checking the property for black helicopters. =)  That type of talk... =P

But yes... would not take too much effort.

Heck, if a drunk/wasted pothead can plow down people with her car, imagine what a few bad people with half a brain can accomplish.

 

[Sniper 6,372]

11 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I would be checking the property for black helicopters. =)  That type of talk... =P

Ha ha ha ha ha... we're all on some type of list, why worry about the black helicopters or black SUVs.

BTW Maks, check your inbox.

 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

10 hours ago, Maksim said:

I would be checking the property for black helicopters. =)  That type of talk... =P

But yes... would not take too much effort.

Heck, if a drunk/wasted pothead can plow down people with her car, imagine what a few bad people with half a brain can accomplish.

 

Well that is my point - most agencies 'wargame' right - ' think like a bad guy '

 

The radio chatter that night - the EP responding units and field comm could hardly give direction to mutual aid units as they seemed to not know the lay of the land - 

 

I mean jeezus they seemed surprised at the 2000 gallon propane tanks..... 

 

Paper mill? Check  Propane Tanks? check Disaster waiting to happen and the local FD has no idea  - priceless

[Vzguy 13]

They should of had a preplan. Especially with the amount of fires they have there annually. They were actually required to have their own Fire Brigade, due to the amount of fires in that complex. Unfortunately it was a mater of time. FD should be been better prepared.

 

These are some of the towns that sent mutual aid:

 Totowa, Paterson, Carlstadt, Wayne, Passaic, Rutherford, East Rutherford, Lodi, North Arlington, Secaucus, River Edge, Little Falls, Teaneck, Totowa, Pompton Lakes, East Newark, Haledon, Prospect Park, Kearny, Allendale, Mahwah, Franklin Lakes, Bloomingdale, Pompton Plains, West Paterson, Woodcliff Lake, Edgewater, Ho Ho Kus, Hasbrouck Heights, Hillsdale, Saddle Brook, Paramus, Garfield, Clifton, Fair Lawn, North Arlington, Paramus, Moonachie, Upper Saddle River

[W2MC 1,699]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:31 PM, USRifle30Cal said:

Since when do wolves worry about the opinions of sheep....

 

ANYONE who thinks this nation cannot be brought to a screeching halt, with 3 to 5 well timed attacks....is an idiot.

 

LOL!  

Piss us off?  yes.  

Bring us to a screeching halt?  yer funny......

“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”

― Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln was right then....and he's still correct today.

Yamato also had it right....while some of the quotes have been questioned, he spent time as a young man in the USA, and recognized the futility of trying to invade a nation as large as the United States.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

8 hours ago, W2MC said:

LOL!  

Piss us off?  yes.  

Bring us to a screeching halt?  yer funny......

“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”

― Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln was right then....and he's still correct today.

Yamato also had it right....while some of the quotes have been questioned, he spent time as a young man in the USA, and recognized the futility of trying to invade a nation as large as the United States.

Well, yamato never said that - and we live in the time of snow flakes.....

Your optimism is a breath of fresh air - however large tracks of this nation will roll on its belly and gladly don chains of servitude as long as the governmental checks keep coming.

[W2MC 1,699]

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Well, yamato never said that - and we live in the time of snow flakes.....

Your optimism is a breath of fresh air - however large tracks of this nation will roll on its belly and gladly don chains of servitude as long as the governmental checks keep coming.

Yamamoto (spelling corrected) was also a graduate of Harvard and the US Navy War College, and was the Japanese naval attache in Washington.  He well knew the capability of the United States.  He DID comment his amazement about rifle shooting contests; particularly one state's governor's cup.  I would have to dig up the reference.  He also did say he would run wild against the Brits and the US for 6 months to a year, but beyond that had no hope of success.  While fully understanding the industrial might of the US, he also underestimated the resolve, and believed he could take most of the Pacific in that 6 to 12 month period.

 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

9 hours ago, W2MC said:

Yamamoto (spelling corrected) was also a graduate of Harvard and the US Navy War College, and was the Japanese naval attache in Washington.  He well knew the capability of the United States.  He DID comment his amazement about rifle shooting contests; particularly one state's governor's cup.  I would have to dig up the reference.  He also did say he would run wild against the Brits and the US for 6 months to a year, but beyond that had no hope of success.  While fully understanding the industrial might of the US, he also underestimated the resolve, and believed he could take most of the Pacific in that 6 to 12 month period.

 

...thanks Webster.

 

He still didn't say it, these is no credible citation for it. 

You live in a world of dreams, America of pre Pearl Harbor and Post, is but a fantasy compared to today.

Some would fight, some will survive, most either die or willingly be Red than dead.

As an example, in the event of a large scale EMP there is an estimated die off of 90%.

 

However small unit tactics can and would drive us to a halt.

[W2MC 1,699]

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

...thanks Webster.

   ...Yamato and Yamamoto are two different people...and it was originally my error.

 

He still didn't say it, these is no credible citation for it. 

   ...Maybe.  This has been debated to death; by folks much more knowledgeable than you or I.

You live in a world of dreams, America of pre Pearl Harbor and Post, is but a fantasy compared to today.

   ...As opposed to your assertion of 3-5 attacks? 

Some would fight, some will survive, most either die or willingly be Red than dead.

   ...Just like every other conflict in US history. 

As an example, in the event of a large scale EMP there is an estimated die off of 90%.

   ...Estimated by who?  EMP is still an unproven attack mode, and the number of nations capable of an EMP attack is very small.

However small unit tactics can and would drive us to a halt.

   ...Bin Laden thought that, too.  Last time I checked; he's dead.

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

You two are on the same team.  Time for a snickers?

Rosey

P.S.:  Jersey OEM's are always playing catch-up.  Cause MONEY.  Cause shiny new fire trucks win trophy's in Wildwood  

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

2 hours ago, W2MC said:

 

Let's take your comments one at a time - however, a common mistake on the internet is that people really do not know whom them are dealing with an make assumptions - but that is part of the fun - no?

Alex- I will take " I too lazy to search for anything for 100 please "

NO - NOT Maybe - Libraries are your friend there is NO credible citation that he ever said it - and without the citation he DID NOT SAY it - there are many quotes that are made in reference to gun rights that were never said and or taken wildly out of context to suit a narrative.  Remember libraries, Gopher and the interwebs searches are your friend and NOT wikipedia.

You can try to infer that he possibly said it - but without the citation - nope.

Alex - I will take " Debating 101 for 200 please "

I was inferring that the people of that generation, the byproduct of the great depression etc. had more spine and self reliance than the people of today that want everything handed to them - by that account and listing to people today - they have no stomach for the contest for freedom and have no idea what it truly is.

Alex - I will take "Reading comprehension for 300 please"

My statement was and expansion of a though that should be be under an attack by a well orchestrated determined and trained foe - the vast majority of people today would be worthless in the contest - they are too soft - but whatever.

Alex - I will take " My head is in my ass for 400 please "

http://www.empcommission.org/

Reading and the truth shall set you free - If I have to explain EMP's and how viable they are and in most major military powers doctrine - well I would be wasting valuable time this Sunday.  Suffice it to say it is proven, it is possible, and they are devastating.

Alex - I will take " Dumbassery for 600 please"

The extent that which 911 was executed is not what I am speaking about - and if built upon and had more planning and a larger footprint, well I stand by my statement.  They were looking for shock and awe and got it.

A small group of people - deliberate, funded, trained to a degree and the where with all to strike in places that are not hardened - can and will cause this country to be paralyzed.

Last i check some folks in a place some call the sanbox held off the soviets and have a darn good job of humbling us as well.

I see no reason to not believe the same type of tactics used in metro centers of the US could not paralyze us.  Let's see and make a list shall we:

*  Start some forest fires - check

* "Attack" power stations - check

* "Attack" water supplies - check

* "Attack" bridges tunnels and transport centers - check

* "Attack" some school buses and kill occupants - check

* "Attack" some schools - you heard of Beslan right? - Check 

We do not have the manpower to prevent - hold or otherwise respond to well timed multi area attacks - the Police and agencies we have are on a minimal staffing as it is - just look at this fire - now imagine it 10 fold.....  chaos....

1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

You two are on the same team.  Time for a snickers?

Rosey

P.S.:  Jersey OEM's are always playing catch-up.  Cause MONEY.  Cause shiny new fire trucks win trophy's in Wildwood  

@Smokin .50 That we are and in that light I am out - with this post........its fruitless - however that same attitude above is was caused chaos at this fire and a lack of due diligence in preparation - no one thought about it, no one planned for it - thus it ended the way it did.

 

:)

[voyager9 3,432]

4 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

- however that same attitude above is was caused chaos at this fire and a lack of due diligence in preparation - no one thought about it, no one planned for it - thus it ended the way it did.

You should acknowledge that even with the best, well-understood preplan you can still end up with a chaotic and dynamic scene.  I wasn’t at this fire, and certainly it sounded chaotic on the radio, but that may not be because the crews were not prepared.  Sometimes things go sideways.