Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted January 31, 2019 I purchase quite a few of my guns on-line from individuals or on auction websites or the classifieds on the various gun forums I subscribe to – all legal and above board. I’ve been doing it for years and I guess the law of averages finally caught up with me. I get a daily e-mail feed from one of the auction/For Sale websites of newly listed Smith & Wesson revolvers. Usually by the time I see them, anything desirable has already been snapped-up. But a couple weeks ago a Model 520 was listed in that feed, at a really great price. The Model 520 was an instant collectible from 1980. These revolvers were made specifically for the NYSP and were not a regularly cataloged item. The NYSP canceled the contract before they were delivered which sent the guns to the civilian market and creating the instant collectible. I wasn’t actually seeking one, but when one falls in your lap, you have to take advantage of it – which I did. I let my exuberance and enthusiasm overcome my good judgment. I didn’t buy it completely blind – there are checks I do before I send off my money to a stranger, but I did violate one tenet in that this was a brand new seller. He had registered with the website only to sell this gun. The site said he was “verified” – which in retrospect probably only meant that his address had been verified. But I did look at his house on Google earth (two dogs in the yard – how bad could he be?) and searched the name and had it come back to that address – so the newness was the only red flag. I’d say the price of the gun might have been construed as a second red flag – “if it’s too good to be true, etc...”, but he priced it low enough that it garnered immediate attention, but high enough that it was plausible – an uninitiated seller not aware of what he had. One curious thing was that he requested I send the money order with tracking. Something, that while out of the ordinary, served to protect me, more than him. So I sent off the MO with a tracking number. He received it two days later (he’s in Idaho). I don’t hear anything from him until the day after he receives the MO. Then comes the litany of excuses as to why he can’t ship the gun: The weather, he’s disabled etc. etc. Ten days later I grow tired of his excuses. I had already started to research Idaho law. I wrote to him and gave him an ultimatum: A tracking number in my hand by close of business the following day or I would file a complaint with his local PD. While this was under the monetary value that differentiated petit theft (a misdemeanor) from grand theft (a felony), because it involved a firearm, under Idaho law it automatically rises to the level of grand theft, regardless of value. I also e-mailed the chief of police asking him to intervene – I figured a visit by the local police, before a formal complaint is filed, might be enough to motivate the seller. I never received a response from the chief. Late the following day (the day of the deadline) I got one more e-mail from the seller, claiming that he’d had an (unspecified) attack and had been in the hospital and unable to ship. My reply was, “The deadline stands.” I heard nothing after that. An empty threat is just that – empty, so I followed through and wrote up a formal complaint and e-mailed it to his local PD the next day. I included two people in all the communications after the point I suspected a scam – my cousin, who is a retired FBI agent out of the Boise field office, and the detective from my local PD that processes all the firearms permits. Neither intervened at that point, but did give me guidance and encouragement. After I filed the complaint, and a few days had passed without me hearing anything, the local detective volunteered to liaise with the Idaho PD. The information his phone call to them garnered was pretty amazing. This guy was a grifter from the word go – not too smart a grifter (we had his name and physical address), but a real scam artist just the same. The investigation has grown into a multi-state, multi-country affair with both the FBI and the BATFE brought in and the scam now involves hundreds of thousands of dollars. In my particular instance, he sold the gun twice (if it ever existed), once to a guy in Texas (who had filed a complaint the same time I did) and then to me. My local detective said that there is a chance that, at some point, way down the road, I may be made whole, but it won’t be until after the guy is prosecuted and ordered to make restitution. Doubtful, at that point, if he’ll have any money so I’m not holding my breath. That's my story - take heed. Adios, Pizza Bob 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted January 31, 2019 Hey Bob, condolences, that sucks, but sounds like the guy is going to go away for a while... Question - USPS Money order? If so, did you check with USPS that it was actually cashed by Mr. Grifter? On the (slight) chance that it hasn’t been cashed, you may be able to get a refund from USPS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,848 Posted January 31, 2019 Well you may have lost the $ but you recovered nicely. Hopefully because the fraud involves firearms the guy will get hammered. Not sure what else you could have done to check a guy in Idaho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted January 31, 2019 6 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: Question - USPS Money order? If so, did you check with USPS that it was actually cashed by Mr. Grifter? On the (slight) chance that it hasn’t been cashed, you may be able to get a refund from USPS. Yes, a USPS MO. I've already gone to the PO and they will not "trace" a money order until a minimum of six weeks have passed. If I involved the Postmaster in Idaho, they might check sooner, but there are already two federal agencies involved. I might explore the mail fraud route, depending on what I learn next week after my detective friend calls for an update.. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillC. 26 Posted January 31, 2019 I feel your pain. Had a deal for a McMillian stock go bad about a year ago. Got lucky and my money was recovered. Paid with USPS money order, seller wanted to do pay pal but I don't pay pal. Money order is sent, with tracking. One day later seller complains checks not here and he has a pay pal buyer. No way I say, we made a deal, MO is on the way. Tracking says M.O. delivered, he says never showed up. I end up waiting 90 days for a refund on an uncashed M.O. local PD was no help, no crime until the M.O. is cashed. USPS saved me in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted January 31, 2019 That stinks but at least you dropped the hammer of Thor on his head. I was a "first time seller" once. Everyone has to be at one point for the sites to work. Sorry this guy was a scum bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted January 31, 2019 Ugh, sorry it happened. On one hand, yes, collectible gun, on the other, after a few "eh" deals on gunbroker for rifles not in as described condition I don't buy it until I can see it myself. Good news is money order, I believe as fraud they should be able to put a stop to that Money Order. Was there ever a gun? I suppose we can even go a step further and do what Reddit does, in pictures, have you put a posting with your username and date on it, to prove it is your item, but in the 10 years of the community, I don't ever recall it being an issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted January 31, 2019 Hope he gets a daily dose of sausage in the can in prison! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted January 31, 2019 Sorry to hear this. Kudos to you for following through and preventing other people from getting ripped off like you did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlDente67 563 Posted February 1, 2019 Bob, I got scammed once when I wanted to buy the first gen Iphone for a friend overseas. I lost the ebay auction but then got a mail that the winner backed out and do I want it? I said sure and sent the 450 via paypal to him. Nothing ever showed up up so i filed with paypal and they refunded half (assholes), But then we have some fun. I found the guy in Vegas and located his home address. The next day, a new Craigslist ad went up for a pre-foreclosure sale at xxx maple ave. everything must go! Sale starts at 6am! About 45 people showed up at 6am and took off with all of his outdoor stuff. The emails were fabulous. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted February 2, 2019 Bob, If it's of any help - when you send a payment through the mail, and get scammed it becomes inter-State mail fraud and you can file a claim with the US Postal inspectors office. They actually do get involved and an inspector will process the claim and investigate - for what it's worth.................. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said: it becomes inter-State mail fraud and you can file a claim with the US Postal inspectors office. Good to know. I always thought USPS MOs were just gone in the event of a scam or fraud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted February 2, 2019 Thanks Jack. I already have the mail fraud claim form being sent. Tried to do it on line and my browser (Google Chrome) can't verify the security certificate of a government website, LOL. Everytime I try to go interactive it kicks me off the site. I've also filed with ic3.gov and the Idaho AG's consumer protection bureau. I truly expect to get nothing back, but I do want these agencies to take notice. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 2, 2019 @capt14k Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 2, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 10:00 AM, 45Doll said: Well you may have lost the $ but you recovered nicely. Hopefully because the fraud involves firearms the guy will get hammered. Not sure what else you could have done to check a guy in Idaho. Problem is the transaction did I not include a gun since it was never sent. It seems the gun does not exist. I tagged capt so he can chime in. He has had something similar. He can reply with the result Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites