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Electric cars as the norm vs the exception

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2 hours ago, remixer said:

You guys know that electric cars would cripple our electric grid if it were the norm, not to mention the power needed to handle electric cars would require lots of coal plants to generate that power (since we cant have any new nuclear plants licensed at this point) which would negate the reason to have electric cars.

Wait, are you saying the electric isn't "free" at all those charging stations? It doesn't just appear, all by itself?

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3 hours ago, remixer said:

You guys know that electric cars would cripple our electric grid if it were the norm, not to mention the power needed to handle electric cars would require lots of coal plants to generate that power (since we cant have any new nuclear plants licensed at this point) which would negate the reason to have electric cars.

this is what i've been telling people for awhile now.....

 

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5 hours ago, remixer said:

You guys know that electric cars would cripple our electric grid if it were the norm, not to mention the power needed to handle electric cars would require lots of coal plants to generate that power (since we cant have any new nuclear plants licensed at this point) which would negate the reason to have electric cars.

You know that most charging would take place at night when the grid is far from it's capacity, and power companies can even enact tine of use pricing to encourage that behavior, so no, it won't bring the grid to its knees.  Also, even if the the entire grid were coal powered the average electric car is only then on par with the average car's emissions.  But much of America's grid is much cleaner than that anyway.

That said, while some people might purchase such a car due to their environmental concerns, my purchase was predicated on the quality of the product, it ticked the right boxes for me.  The fact that it might be cleaner, and is definitely cheaper to operate than a comparable vehicle is just icing on the cake, but I still would have purchased it anyway if both emissions and cost were equal. 

And (my opinion) seriously, we need to get on nuclear, especially if we ever master fusion, it will unleash a new rise in quality of life, on par with the industrial revolution, as power would be almost limitless and inexpensive at that point.  I hope to live long enough to see it.

 

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58 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

You know that most charging would take place at night when the grid is far from it's capacity, and power companies can even enact tine of use pricing to encourage that behavior, so no, it won't bring the grid to its knees.  Also, even if the the entire grid were coal powered the average electric car is only then on par with the average car's emissions.  But much of America's grid is much cleaner than that anyway.

That said, while some people might purchase such a car due to their environmental concerns, my purchase was predicated on the quality of the product, it ticked the right boxes for me.  The fact that it might be cleaner, and is definitely cheaper to operate than a comparable vehicle is just icing on the cake, but I still would have purchased it anyway if both emissions and cost were equal. 

And (my opinion) seriously, we need to get on nuclear, especially if we ever master fusion, it will unleash a new rise in quality of life, on par with the industrial revolution, as power would be almost limitless and inexpensive at that point.  I hope to live long enough to see it.

 

that was something i referenced awhile back in this thread i think. that is not a good idea to allow that. you know as well as me it will be abused.

 as for night time.....most people will come home from work between 4 and 6pm, and plug their car in. that'll put a big load during peak hours. especially in states that already have rolling brownouts like commifornia

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Just now, 1LtCAP said:

that was something i referenced awhile back in this thread i think. that is not a good idea to allow that. you know as well as me it will be abused.

 as for night time.....most people will come home from work between 4 and 6pm, and plug their car in. that'll put a big load during peak hours. especially in states that already have rolling brownouts like commifornia

How would time of use be abused? 

 

Also, if the rates go down at 10pm but you plug in at 6, if you’re not a moron you would have the car scheduled to start charging at 10, not immediately upon being plugged in.  This is something that is quite easy to setup in the car’s charging menu. 

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

You know that most charging would take place at night when the grid is far from it's capacity, and power companies can even enact tine of use pricing to encourage that behavior, so no, it won't bring the grid to its knees. 

 

14 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

as for night time.....most people will come home from work between 4 and 6pm, and plug their car in. that'll put a big load during peak hours. especially in states that already have rolling brownouts like commifornia

Just coming to post that, highest demand for power is in the evening, when every gets home from work. Plus, what Darren doesn't realize, is that we can't rely on solar power to make up the extra either at that time, because the sun has set.

Rapid chargers will put a HUGE demand load on the system. And no, I doubt people will postpone charging of their cars until late at night, they'll plug them in as soon as they get home, and go in.

graph_peaktime.png

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1 minute ago, Sniper said:

 

Just coming to post that, highest demand for power is in the evening, when every gets home from work. Plus, what Darren doesn't realize, is that we can't rely on solar power to make up the extra either at that time, because the sun has set.

Rapid chargers will put a HUGE demand load on the system. And no, I doubt people will postpone charging of their cars until late at night, they'll plug them in as soon as they get home, and go in.

graph_peaktime.png

And lowest demand is overnight, which is what time of use and timed charging is all about. And no where did I say anything about solar, so why do you bring it up. Oh right, because you have to keep lying about what I say to hold on to your worldview. 

 

And be as I said before, but for some reason I have to keep repeating myself for you ( maybe you should see a doctor about that) I wouldn’t own one of these things if I couldn’t charge it at home.  

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2 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

And lowest demand is overnight, which is what time of use and timed charging is all about. And no where did I say anything about solar, so why do you bring it up. Oh right, because you have to keep lying about what I say to hold on to your worldview. 

Because people a lot smarter than you (who AREN'T fanboys) have talked about electric supply issues if this technology expands past the fanboy stage. The current grid won't be able to handle it.

4 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

I wouldn’t own one of these things if I couldn’t charge it at home.  

Got a generator at home, otherwise you might end up with a really expensive lawn ornament?

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

You know that most charging would take place at night when the grid is far from it's capacity, and power companies can even enact tine of use pricing to encourage that behavior, so no, it won't bring the grid to its knees.  Also, even if the the entire grid were coal powered the average electric car is only then on par with the average car's emissions.  But much of America's grid is much cleaner than that anyway.
 

I recall not long ago brownouts all over NJ during the high heat...  All because people were using AC... imagine people plugging in cars to charge on top of that... Our grid CANNOT support mass usage of electric vehicles.. 

That being said... it might be at some point but at this moment not a chance.

 

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2 minutes ago, remixer said:

I recall not long ago brownouts all over NJ during the high heat...  All because people were using AC... imagine people plugging in cars to charge on top of that... Our grid CANNOT support mass usage of electric vehicles.. 

That being said... it might be at some point but at this moment not a chance.

 

That is why time of use pricing would be useful if it ever becomes a problem. Average commute is 51 miles a day. That’s about 11kWh a day, or 250hWh a month.  Ac usage goes down at night, and it uses about the same power as charging a car, so the grid can handle it at night. And the grid is getting more robust, and local storage solutions are increasing as well. 

 

These are challenges, but hardly insurmountable and are being addressed. 

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33 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Because people a lot smarter than you (who AREN'T fanboys) have talked about electric supply issues if this technology expands past the fanboy stage. The current grid won't be able to handle it.

Got a generator at home, otherwise you might end up with a really expensive lawn ornament?

So because people smarter than me have talked about it you have to lie about what I say. I supposed in your warped mind that makes sense. 

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10 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

That is why time of use pricing would be useful if it ever becomes a problem. Average commute is 51 miles a day. That’s about 11kWh a day, or 250hWh a month.  Ac usage goes down at night, and it uses about the same power as charging a car, so the grid can handle it at night. And the grid is getting more robust, and local storage solutions are increasing as well. 

 

These are challenges, but hardly insurmountable and are being addressed. 

Again..... On a mass scale it would cripple the grid in its current form... Research it.

AC usage drops slightly in the evening but not when its super hot and humid...  There will also be people charging those cars in the day time as well using charging stations at work etc etc.

I'm not saying don't drive an electric car... Do what you like....     
I know people who purchased the hybrids when gas was high and regret it once gas prices went down.

the numbers did not make sense to them anymore.

 

 

 

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On a Side note.... Ever research the environmental footprint / impact  that creating the batteries takes.. 
From what i understand the environmental impact from using it in a car does not erase what it took to mine, transport and manufacture them. Then their disposal.... Some will still argue at the end a cleaner combustion engine is environmentally more sound.   

 

  Again... not saying don't drive electric... I'm saying at this point its not a winner financially and or environmentally for most people. 

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5 minutes ago, remixer said:

On a Side note.... Ever research the environmental footprint / impact  that creating the batteries takes.. 
From what i understand the environmental impact from using it in a car does not erase what it took to mine, transport and manufacture them. Then their disposal.... Some will still argue at the end a cleaner combustion engine is environmentally more sound.   

 

  Again... not saying don't drive electric... I'm saying at this point its not a winner financially and or environmentally for most people. 

I have. And what disposal are you talking about? Do you really think they ( especially the valuable batteries) won’t be recycled? They already are. 

 

Here is a primer for anyone interested  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

I have. And what disposal are you talking about? Do you really think they ( especially the valuable batteries) won’t be recycled? They already are. 

 

After a crash?  but for argument sake lets forget disposal.... How about manufacturing.

 

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6 minutes ago, remixer said:

After a crash?  but for argument sake lets forget disposal.... How about manufacturing.

 

Yes, even after a crash, not like that is the majority of vehicles.  

 

Manufacturing environmental costs take a variety of years to recoup emissions on ICE, but only 5 years under the very worst circumstances. Yes lithium is mined for batteries, but elements are mined for all vehicles, and we’d be lying if we said that fossil fuels don’t have environmental impacts. But here is the big difference, the elements in the batteries can be recycled, so long term the damage is lower. 

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

How would time of use be abused? 

 

Also, if the rates go down at 10pm but you plug in at 6, if you’re not a moron you would have the car scheduled to start charging at 10, not immediately upon being plugged in.  This is something that is quite easy to setup in the car’s charging menu. 

it will end up working exactly like surge pricing that other companies use for other services.

 

 give it time, and you won't see those rates go lower at  10pm. not when it's known that you need it to be able to go to work in the am.

 

 you gotta remember. i don't care one way or another about electrics, even though i'll never own one. but i do see how things work, and this is what will happen. 10 years from now when it does, you can remember this.

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13 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

it will end up working exactly like surge pricing that other companies use for other services.

 

 give it time, and you won't see those rates go lower at  10pm. not when it's known that you need it to be able to go to work in the am.

 

 you gotta remember. i don't care one way or another about electrics, even though i'll never own one. but i do see how things work, and this is what will happen. 10 years from now when it does, you can remember this.

I'm not anti Electric vehicle... I think it's a pretty cool concept.. Iv been in a tesla and needed to call the FD to remove my testicles from my ass... It had that much power.. it was an experience. Iv never been in a car with that must torque.

that being said... i dont think we are prepared for mass usage.

 

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12 minutes ago, remixer said:

I'm not anti Electric vehicle... I think it's a pretty cool concept.. Iv been in a tesla and needed to call the FD to remove my testicles from my ass... It had that much power.. it was an experience. Iv never been in a car with that must torque.

that being said... i dont think we are prepared for mass usage.

 

Fanboy :D

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Just now, carl_g said:

Fanboy :D

LOL

Listen to me...... Im telling you.....   I thought those cars were a joke UNTIL a customer said jump in..

I was in shock..... We hit well over 100 MPH in a blink of an eye and not a single tire spun... that sucker gripped the road like nothing i've ever seen.

If you have never been in a tesla try it (with a driver who's nuts) you will come out of this as shocked as i was.

 

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51 minutes ago, remixer said:

I'm not anti Electric vehicle... I think it's a pretty cool concept.. Iv been in a tesla and needed to call the FD to remove my testicles from my ass... It had that much power.. it was an experience. Iv never been in a car with that must torque.

that being said... i dont think we are prepared for mass usage.

 

we're not even close to that. and do you know how they'll pay for the upgrades to make us ready for mass usage?

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Just now, 1LtCAP said:

we're not even close to that. and do you know how they'll pay for the upgrades to make us ready for mass usage?

of course we are not close....   Hell we cant even manage to protest the existing grid... Imagine an attack on the grid that also killed mass usage of electric cars... it would be even worse.

 

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4 minutes ago, Handyman said:

My neighbor heads to Florida all winter, so I figure I can charge a car for free if I run another extension cord over to his place. Hell, he's already runs my fridge and two space heaters from late October to late April. 

5 miles per hour charge.

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On 3/14/2019 at 5:07 PM, Darrenf said:

I have. And what disposal are you talking about? Do you really think they ( especially the valuable batteries) won’t be recycled? They already are. 

 

Here is a primer for anyone interested  

 

 

You’ve obviously never been to a battery factory. 

I have. 

Nasty, dirty process to make them. Even Li-Ion. 

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On 3/15/2019 at 5:38 PM, Zeke said:

Unless you can nab 220 from your Nieghbor 

Why wouldn’t you use 220?  Just about house built in our lifetime has 220.

Charges in a decent amount of time.  But the EVs are just overpriced for wht they are.....

mass produced bland cars.

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