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Electric cars as the norm vs the exception

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25 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

Simple, if it cant see the light it knows the stop is there, so it stops, and either waits until it's safe, or relinquishes control back to the driver.
 

 

What do you think Autopilot (as Tesla calls it) is supposed to do?  What are the driver's responsibilities when using it?  

Which completely defeats the purpose of a self driving car... If it's needs a human to take over... Then there needs to be a more advanced way to navigate than line of sight.... The cars will continue to have short comings if they continue with line of sight navigation. 

When Tesla first rolled out Auto Pilot, they had to significantly roll back what they promised. And it's never been really advertised as a driving aid... Driving aids require YOU to be actually driving and I'm control. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Which completely defeats the purpose of a self driving car... If it's needs a human to take over... Then there needs to be a more advanced way to navigate than line of sight.... The cars will continue to have short comings if they continue with line of sight navigation. 

 

How hard is this to understand? It is not FSD yet, and the current models never promised Level 5 autonomy.  If they did, they wouldn't have a steering wheel.  And no car yet has been driven without line of sight being used for decisions of steering and braking.  

 

 

 

 

Sniper on new technologies and fast cars...

yucko_medium.gif

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1 minute ago, Darrenf said:

How hard is this to understand? It is not FSD yet, and the current models never promised Level 5 autonomy.  If they did, they wouldn't have a steering wheel.

It's really not hard to understand... I don't know what ur arguing here... I'm pointing out their limitations. 

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13 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

It's not autonomous,

Maybe you should go remind the dead guys of that point.

14 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

Look man, don't buy one if you like to putt around town like an old maid.  I don't care, but just be accurate about what you pretend to know about.

I have been involved with new technology way back when you were wearing diapers, so try not to lecture people on what they know.

 

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Just now, JackDaWack said:

It's really not hard to understand... I don't know what ur arguing here... I'm pointing out their limitations. 

No, you're going beyond that, you're stating why they won't work, when in fact they have been doing what was promised and more.  It isn't hard to understand, you are correct, but that doesn't stop you from misrepresenting it or acting like the system has failed when it has been doing exactly what it is designed to do.  The interesting dichotomy of the Tesla brand at least, is that they are extremely fun cars to drive, AND they lead the current crop of driver assist technologies available to the public.

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Just now, Sniper said:

Maybe you should go remind the dead guys of that point.

I have been involved with new technology way back when you were wearing diapers, so try not to lecture people on what they know.

 

The dead guys were told, and ignored it.  Can't fix stupid.

And I'll lecture as long as you keep showing ignorance.  this conversation is no different than how I treat people who want to ban guns when they don't know a magazine from a thing on the front that goes up.

1 minute ago, Sniper said:

Typical snowflake response. You're spending way too much time with Greenday.

Ooh ouch. Guess I hit a nerve.

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3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

It's really not hard to understand... I don't know what ur arguing here

When you drink the kool-aid by the gallons, like he does, you'll never get a realistic and honest points across. His mind is closed. Period.

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1 minute ago, Darrenf said:

And I'll lecture as long as you keep showing ignorance. 

 

2 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

Ooh ouch. Guess I hit a nerve.

Not even close, but I can see where you fit the narrative "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous".

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12 minutes ago, Sniper said:

When you drink the kool-aid by the gallons, like he does, you'll never get a realistic and honest points across. His mind is closed. Period.

That's funny.  You can't argue the point so it's just one character attack after another.  Seems your point about me spending time with Greenday (someone I've never met, nor care to meet) is just you projecting.  

I don't care what you drive.  Just be honest about why you are doing it and don't lie about a new technology.

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2 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Just read that Tesla is set to close a number of dealerships.

Not really dealerships, and covered in this thread on Friday.  They are eliminating their sales team, and going to just an online ordering system. Time will tell how that works out for them, but I don’t know anyone yet who ordered a Tesla at a Tesla store, they’ve all done it online. 

 

Most of the buildings will will stay open for service. 

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

That's funny.  You can't argue the point so it's just one character attack after another.  Seems your point about me spending time with Greenday (someone I've never met, nor care to meet) is just you projecting.  

I don't care what you drive.  Just be honest about why you are doing it and don't lie about a new technology.

It’s what happens in every thread here when someone doesn’t agree with him. Don’t waste your time. It’s useless. 

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48 minutes ago, carl_g said:

It’s what happens in every thread here when someone doesn’t agree with him. Don’t waste your time. It’s useless. 

Exactly. The little children here always know more (at least they think they do).

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I have a deposit in the Porsche Taycan right now.  I’ve test driven Tesla cars and they are quite amazing.  It’s very disturbing at first that there is n engine noise but a quick launch in ludicrous mode, 0-60 in 2.4, is hard described—it was actually uncomfortable.  They have a 335 mile range at the top end an enormous network of chargers and will give an 80% charge in 30 mins.  I’m not int EV for the environment, electricity doesn’t make itself,  i’m more for the innovative tech.   Batteries are really the limiting bit and need a major breakthrough.  The other major issue is affordability.  These damn things are pricey even with Tesla’s across the board price cut and delivery of the base model 3.  These have to become more attainable if there’s an expectation that people not after an EV would consider them. 

 However, if this Porsche drives like a true Porsche and the good qualities of EV then I’m sold.  

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Just now, 1LtCAP said:

what's uncomfortable about 0-60 in 2.4? i've done it, and it's a rush. every. single. time.

Some people can feel their organs getting compressed and it's uncomfortable.  Also, in an electric car, especially the Tesla P100D, there is no warning, and that instant hit at launch is VERY hard, since max torque is available at zero RPM.

But yes, it is a rush!

 

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36 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

what's uncomfortable about 0-60 in 2.4? i've done it, and it's a rush. every. single. time.

If you like rushes maybe you should try it. If the lack of sound bugs you, you can make vroom vroom noises to yourself.

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

Some people can feel their organs getting compressed and it's uncomfortable.  Also, in an electric car, especially the Tesla P100D, there is no warning, and that instant hit at launch is VERY hard, since max torque is available at zero RPM.

But yes, it is a rush!

 

i know what the launch feels like. i drove a 9.90 car. it's just about the best feeling in the world. if i wasn't worried about ruining my stang, i'd have already built her into the 8's. 

also.....the warning is your right foot. :)

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23 hours ago, carl_g said:

Yep and how many IC engine cars were involved in deaths that day with a human driver?

This is the ignorance that annoys me when this subject comes up. It is really the ultimate example of people believing their emotions are facts. Not to single you out, it's just the human nature of it, and we are generally awful at this kind of assesment. 

People are actually quite good at driving. Seriously.. you remember that asshole that almost killed 10 people on your commute home yesterday, but the reality is immediately around you during rush hour there are what? 100 cars? And 99 of them did their job and kept that asshole from killing someone, including themselves (unfortunately).  If people were really not very competent at this task, it'd be a freaking apocalypse. 

The last time I calculated this, which was not quite a year ago, the average driver does between 11-12k miles a year and on average goes between 100-110 thousand miles between accidents. (those numbers are likely in flux as the great recession there seriously reduced driven miles). 

Currently google tech, which is the only one that has published stats, removing incidents where a parked vehicle was hit, or a human was operating their vehicle, goes about 89,000 miles between accidents. Google's tech is currently waymo, so the robot driver has even racked up at least one pedestrian fatality. 

And to date, autonomous vehicles still don't do heavy rain and snow. If you yanked out accidents related to bad weather, the human numbers would improve, and the robots still haven't caught up with an uneven playing field. 

Tesla's auto pilot has plowed multiple people into things. 

NVIDIA's driving AI CONSTANTLY illegally cuts corners on left hand turns and they think it's good. That shit will be accidents all over the place when you aren't cherry picking time and location for "real world" tests. 

 

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4 hours ago, raz-0 said:

This is the ignorance that annoys me when this subject comes up. It is really the ultimate example of people believing their emotions are facts. Not to single you out, it's just the human nature of it, and we are generally awful at this kind of assesment. 

People are actually quite good at driving. Seriously.. you remember that asshole that almost killed 10 people on your commute home yesterday, but the reality is immediately around you during rush hour there are what? 100 cars? And 99 of them did their job and kept that asshole from killing someone, including themselves (unfortunately).  If people were really not very competent at this task, it'd be a freaking apocalypse. 

The last time I calculated this, which was not quite a year ago, the average driver does between 11-12k miles a year and on average goes between 100-110 thousand miles between accidents. (those numbers are likely in flux as the great recession there seriously reduced driven miles). 

Currently google tech, which is the only one that has published stats, removing incidents where a parked vehicle was hit, or a human was operating their vehicle, goes about 89,000 miles between accidents. Google's tech is currently waymo, so the robot driver has even racked up at least one pedestrian fatality. 

And to date, autonomous vehicles still don't do heavy rain and snow. If you yanked out accidents related to bad weather, the human numbers would improve, and the robots still haven't caught up with an uneven playing field. 

Tesla's auto pilot has plowed multiple people into things. 

NVIDIA's driving AI CONSTANTLY illegally cuts corners on left hand turns and they think it's good. That shit will be accidents all over the place when you aren't cherry picking time and location for "real world" tests. 

 

Well I asked a question so you can call it what you want. If ignorance works that's cool. Also, I am not emotionally attached to Tesla other than I think the technology is cool and they are pushing the envelope on design and innovation. It seems when ever there is a crash with a Tesla involved it's posted on Drudge Report and Breitbart yet you never see any of the 30k+ conventional car related deaths per year ever reported on in the media. Why is that? 

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6 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

i know what the launch feels like. i drove a 9.90 car. it's just about the best feeling in the world. if i wasn't worried about ruining my stang, i'd have already built her into the 8's. 

also.....the warning is your right foot. :)

When I meant warning I meant for the passengers who might not have their heads against the headrest.

A  P100D's 60 foot is normally 1.56 seconds, right in line with many 9.90 bracket cars.  Imagine that launch without a helmet and you are not expecting it, allowing your head to hit the back of the seat.  Not fun.  But yes, if you are ready for it, possibly better than sex. :D



 

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1 hour ago, carl_g said:

It seems when ever there is a crash with a Tesla involved it's posted on Drudge Report and Breitbart yet you never see any of the 30k+ conventional car related deaths per year ever reported on in the media. Why is that? 

Maybe because Autopilot didn't kill them?

 

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1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

When I meant warning I meant for the passengers who might not have their heads against the headrest.

A  P100D's 60 foot is normally 1.56 seconds, right in line with many 9.90 bracket cars.  Imagine that launch without a helmet and you are not expecting it, allowing your head to hit the back of the seat.  Not fun.  But yes, if you are ready for it, possibly better than sex. :D



 

AAHH...i misunderstood

 

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I would like to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a major concern.  I used to drive to RI to help my kid move in or out at her school.  Not having enough gas was always a concern for me, if the GW Bridge traffic was nasty...one accident and the backup lasts for miles, and no way to exit to find a gas station.  The electric is even more of a concern...even with smooth sailing, it is still a trip in excess of the capacity.  So you'd have to find a charge station halfway through...and wait.

Plus I'd have to pay to install a 220v outlet in the garage.  At this point for me, it isn't there yet.  Some day, but not yet.

 

Would love to experience the sub-3s acceleration though.  Sounds like fun.

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1 minute ago, AlDente67 said:

I would like to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a major concern.  I used to drive to RI to help my kid move in or out at her school.  Not having enough gas was always a concern for me, if the GW Bridge traffic was nasty...one accident and the backup lasts for miles, and no way to exit to find a gas station.  The electric is even more of a concern...even with smooth sailing, it is still a trip in excess of the capacity.  So you'd have to find a charge station halfway through...and wait.

Plus I'd have to pay to install a 220v outlet in the garage.  At this point for me, it isn't there yet.  Some day, but not yet.

 

Would love to experience the sub-3s acceleration though.  Sounds like fun.

Just for fun last week I put a trip from Vineland NJ to Boston MA into the trip planner.  We would have to stop in Milford Conneticut for 22 minutes to charge.  And that is with the current Superchargers, the next gen which started rolling out 2 days ago will cut that down to possibly 11 minutes.

Yet might be sooner than you think. :)

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2 hours ago, Darrenf said:

Just for fun last week I put a trip from Vineland NJ to Boston MA into the trip planner.  We would have to stop in Milford Conneticut for 22 minutes to charge.  And that is with the current Superchargers, the next gen which started rolling out 2 days ago will cut that down to possibly 11 minutes.

Yet might be sooner than you think. :)

That I could live with.  I was hearing 8 hours for a full charge back in the day.

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2 hours ago, Darrenf said:

Just for fun last week I put a trip from Vineland NJ to Boston MA into the trip planner.  We would have to stop in Milford Conneticut for 22 minutes to charge. 

What comes up in a trip planner and what happens in reality are two different animals. What happens if those chargers are being used by other people or are broken? You going to push the car the rest of the way, or just hope it's all down hill?

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18 hours ago, Sniper said:

What comes up in a trip planner and what happens in reality are two different animals. What happens if those chargers are being used by other people or are broken? You going to push the car the rest of the way, or just hope it's all down hill?

Th car updates you on charger status in real time and also routes accordingly. I have never experienced a full or broken Tesla charger. Chargers being full or broken just isn't a real concern.  You have zero experience with this yet act like your opinion is fact.  It's like trying to discuss gun law with Mom's demand Everything. No doubt you'll find an article about a charger that was full or broken once, and try to act like that is the norm as opposed to the almost non existent reality.  Like all the law abiding gun owners that commit mass murder. Oh wait.  

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