Electric cars as the norm vs the exception

[Darrenf 422]

44 minutes ago, PeteF said:

So we have electric motors fail. Check

This is news to you?  It was never stated by me.  Keep tilting at those windmills Don. 

Quote

You have no idea what happens when the computer in your car fails or resets. Check.

I have first hand knowledge what happens when it resets.  That's why I could see your opinion as the uninformed drivel it is. It's cute how you think no one can keep track of your ever changing argument.

 

Quote

You make a statement and when proven wrong by example, you claim thats not what you said. Check

Uh-huh.  Still waiting for you to show where I said these things you accuse me of saying.  You're just like any garden variety liberal, sees the world how you want it instead of how it is.

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Delorean a car that was not ready for prime time and died.  But still loved by fan boys.  Just like a Tesla.  Check.

Tesla died?  Now you'll try to explain how that isn't what you said, even though here it is, in plain view.

 

I am amazed at your willingness to display such ignorance in public.  It is amusing though.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

in case you guys don't see it coming.......you all DO know that while charging these is cheap and sometimes free right now.......that it will become expensive within the next 10-20 years, right? just like they suckered everyone into cable, just like happens with everything......get people hooked on it for cheap, then raise the price when there are no(or very few) other options.

[Sniper 6,372]

34 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

My gasoline bill was $150 a month.  My charging bill is $60 a month.  

Amazing how fanboys totally misrepresent the issue. You're saving $100 a month. Sure, your charging bill might be lower then your gas bill, but you paid TENS of thousands more dollars to BUY the Tesla versus a ICE car.

Any idea how much gas $20,000 can buy?

Should only take you 200 months to break even ( 16 years). You'll be paying another $10K for batteries long before you reach that point.

36 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

That is a key part of the ownership experience

It certainly is.

[Zeke 5,504]

Hypothetical scenario:

electric Harley and Tesla pull up to same charging port/station/extension cord/ whatevs.

Do they fight? If yes who wins?

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, Darrenf said:

My gasoline bill was $150 a month.  My charging bill is $60 a month.  

 

it just hit me. what do you drive? or how much do you drive? i drive an excursion, and my gas bill's less than that. granted i don't drive much, but..........

[10X 3,296]

I wonder if folks on the automotive boards spend this much time arguing about firearm technology?

[Zeke 5,504]

Mines $150 a week. True story

[Darrenf 422]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

in case you guys don't see it coming.......you all DO know that while charging these is cheap and sometimes free right now.......that it will become expensive within the next 10-20 years, right? just like they suckered everyone into cable, just like happens with everything......get people hooked on it for cheap, then raise the price when there are no(or very few) other options.

I remember gasoline being 90 cents a gallon less than 20 years ago.  How’s that working out. Also, electric is a utility and can’t go up like that at home. If you’re a salesperson on the road all the time, that might be an issue, but for most of us it’s not. 

[Handyman 5,682]

 

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Hypothetical scenario:

electric Harley and Tesla pull up to same charging port/station/extension cord/ whatevs.

Do they fight? If yes who wins?

 

Both dudes are gay metrosexuals, so it's a draw.

Get a horse!

 

 

 

[raz-0 1,259]

2 hours ago, Darrenf said:

My gasoline bill was $150 a month.  My charging bill is $60 a month.  

But, if I were not able to charge at home there is no way I would own an electric car.  ( no doubt the trolls here will say see, this means it's not ready for prime time, ignoring the fact that I said they aren't for everyone).  I have already had two people drive my car who do not live where they could charge, and it took a little bit to talk them out of trying to get one themselves.  The driving experience had won them over enough to the point they were willing to live with the drag that would be charging somewhere else every week.   They might still do it, but they can't complain they weren't warned.

Imagine the most face palmy of face palm gifs here. 

Seriously.. this fucking argument is about when EVs will be the norm. The one you seem to see as a deal breaker is huge and hard to overcome. It will take time. That time will be > 10 years IMO, but it will definitely be slightly longer than the time it takes to:

1) bring the cost of an EV in line with the average american's budget. 

2) make home ownership without some dipshit HOA not be a prerequisite of successful ownership (i.e. $2 30,000,000,000kwh batteries won't solve lack of a viable charging point for the rate of ocnsumption). 

3) It will have to have a viable maintenance and repair lifecycle. 

Once those elements are met you STILL have a period of time left to convert the used market. The presence of a new brand X EV that meets all the above doesn't negate the fact a used tesla, even if cheap second hand, still has #2 as an issue. 

One thing to remember with Tesla is that the idea was that they'd be expensive, and the solution to that was "it's a 40 year car". And the solution to "affordability" was the notion that new financing models would show up. Then the notion was that you'd fix it because autopilot would mean your robot car could be working for you while you were at work/asleep. Now the solution is to just actually make the price lower. But lower is STILL $35k. 

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Mines $150 a week. True story

WELL you only drive a chevy. <ducking n running, lololol>

 

but you probably drive a boatload more than me too.

[silverado427 10,681]

I wonder what the how the Fed + State are going to recap the loss of the gas  tax.

[Malice4you 627]

16 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

I wonder what the how the Fed + State are going to recap the loss of the gas  tax.

I'm sure a use tax will eventually be instated, either with one of those little GPS OBDII dongle things, or mandatory mileage reporting on taxes, or other such bullshit.  Or maybe EZPass readers on all the highways.  Pretty sure our esteemed beaver-in-charge has proposed something like that already in the last year, because we are still taking home money for ourselves and he can't have THAT.

[raz-0 1,259]

19 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

I wonder what the how the Fed + State are going to recap the loss of the gas  tax.

Their response has always been a desire to track how much you drive and institute a mileage tax. Usually involving some invasion of privacy rather than simply mandating checking the odometer. 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, silverado427 said:

I wonder what the how the Fed + State are going to recap the loss of the gas  tax.

mileage tax

some states have i believe aready instituted such taxes

[Zeke 5,504]

Mileage tax has been on the table since the Prius rolled off the assembly line.

[Darrenf 422]

2 hours ago, raz-0 said:

Imagine the most face palmy of face palm gifs here. 

Seriously.. this fucking argument is about when EVs will be the norm. The one you seem to see as a deal breaker is huge and hard to overcome. It will take time. That time will be > 10 years IMO, but it will definitely be slightly longer than the time it takes to:

1) bring the cost of an EV in line with the average american's budget. 

2) make home ownership without some dipshit HOA not be a prerequisite of successful ownership (i.e. $2 30,000,000,000kwh batteries won't solve lack of a viable charging point for the rate of ocnsumption). 

3) It will have to have a viable maintenance and repair lifecycle. 

Once those elements are met you STILL have a period of time left to convert the used market. The presence of a new brand X EV that meets all the above doesn't negate the fact a used tesla, even if cheap second hand, still has #2 as an issue. 

One thing to remember with Tesla is that the idea was that they'd be expensive, and the solution to that was "it's a 40 year car". And the solution to "affordability" was the notion that new financing models would show up. Then the notion was that you'd fix it because autopilot would mean your robot car could be working for you while you were at work/asleep. Now the solution is to just actually make the price lower. But lower is STILL $35k. 

 

Not sure what the face palm is for, since I answered your question directly.

 

Agreed, that is a deal breaker to me, at least until charging away from home is on par speed wise with filling up with gas.  But even that now to me sounds awful compared to the convenience of always having a full tank in the morning and not having to go out of my way to do so.  

I would NEVER live in an HOA.  It's bad enough dealing with state and local government, the last thing I would do is add yet more nazis who want to dictate what I can do on my own property.
#3 has already been hit as far as I'm concerned.  Like I've said previously, there is less to go wrong than on a comparable normal car. 

And as far as #1, they are now priced as low as what the average car sales price is.  The average car sold today is $35k.  That is why Tesla chose that price target for their model 3, which they have now hit.  The idea was never that they would be expensive, the idea was to start with the expensive cars because they could bury the cost of the burgeoning tech in higher margin vehicles in order to finance the development to get costs down to affordable cars.   8 years ago their batteries cost over $700/kWh.  Today they are below $120/kWh.  It's said that once they get the cost below $100/kWh that EVs will be cheaper to produce than internal combustion cars.  But even if it were cheaper, if I couldn't charge at home, or away from home in roughly the same time as filling with gas, it would be a no go.  Right now the only time I am held up by charging is on a long road trip, and even then the car holds me up less than my wife's bladder does, so it's really a non issue for road trips.
 

[Darrenf 422]

5 hours ago, Sniper said:

Amazing how fanboys totally misrepresent the issue. You're saving $100 a month. Sure, your charging bill might be lower then your gas bill, but you paid TENS of thousands more dollars to BUY the Tesla versus a ICE car.

Any idea how much gas $20,000 can buy?

Should only take you 200 months to break even ( 16 years). You'll be paying another $10K for batteries long before you reach that point.

It certainly is.

I didn't misrepresent anything, I was asked how much I spent on electric compared to gas.  I answered.  Not once did I ever even suggest that I purchased a Tesla in order to save money, but once again you present an argument to refute that no one made.  Why are you so desperate? 

Also, fanboys overlook all shortcomings, I've done no such thing, I tell it like it is.  And how it is is that you continue to push lies about the technology, and as I do to all liars I encounter, I point them out

[Handyman 5,682]

I'm just gonna switch back and forth between using the genny to run the AC and charge the engine

[PeteF 1,044]

6 hours ago, Darrenf said:

This is news to you?  It was never stated by me.  Keep tilting at those windmills Don. 

I have first hand knowledge what happens when it resets.  That's why I could see your opinion as the uninformed drivel it is. It's cute how you think no one can keep track of your ever changing argument.

 

Uh-huh.  Still waiting for you to show where I said these things you accuse me of saying.  You're just like any garden variety liberal, sees the world how you want it instead of how it is.

Tesla died?  Now you'll try to explain how that isn't what you said, even though here it is, in plain view.

 

I am amazed at your willingness to display such ignorance in public.  It is amusing though.

That is a key part of the ownership experience

 

 

Wow can you go more around and around?  You claim electric motors don't or rarely die,  Many people show you by examplem that you are wrong.  Now you claim you knew it all along.  OKAY.

So when you lose all control of software controlled features in your car (in a Tesla is pretty much everything) it is bad.  But since you know exactly what happens its not a problem?  OKAY.

Tesla is dying just like Delorean.   Analogy look it up.  Both over priced toys, honcho'd by an arrogant SOB that thought he could get around the rules.  Druggy -  Delorean Yes,  Musk Yes,   SEC violations for Musk, FBI Investigation /busts for Delorean

I am not so amazed at your arrogance and ignorance.

Last one spoken like a PT Barnum special.  Getting pissed on and told its a warm tropical mist.

[Darrenf 422]

Just now, PeteF said:

Wow can you go more around and around?  You claim electric motors don't or rarely die,  Many people show you by examplem that you are wrong.  Now you claim you knew it all along.  OKAY.

 

 

Last time moron, I never said anything doesn't die, in fact I explicitly said nothing lasts forever multiple times.  Of course you'd think a couple people with anecdotes now proves that internal engines are more reliable than electric.  I never said they never fail, I said they are more reliable.  Once again you show your stupidity, and you are so proud of it, fascinating.

 

Quote

So when you lose all control of software controlled features in your car (in a Tesla is pretty much everything) it is bad.  But since you know exactly what happens its not a problem?  OKAY.

You keep clinging to this, again showing you have no idea of which you speak, but you believe it completely.  Is that stupidity, or arrogance?  As I said, I do know exactly what happens, you keep implying something bad happens, because as I said, you think your opinion is fact.  

Since you've tried to weasel out of this 3 times now, I'll end the suspense (are you too stupid to google "Tesla reboot while driving"?

Facts don't care about your feelings....

 

Quote

Tesla is dying just like Delorean.   Analogy look it up.  Both over priced toys, honcho'd by an arrogant SOB that thought he could get around the rules.  Druggy -  Delorean Yes,  Musk Yes,   SEC violations for Musk, FBI Investigation /busts for Delorean

Sure they are.  You are just like the main stream media on Trump, really reaching to find negative things to say, while ignoring everything else.

 

Quote

 I am not so amazed at your arrogance and ignorance.

Most people aren't amazed by what isn't there, congrats.


And my last bit of info for you, (and I'm sure you will have many insults to try to bait me, but it won't work, I don't care about your out of touch opinion)...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/09/06/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking-updated/#39e7dd9603fe

 

 

 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

4 hours ago, Handyman said:

 

 

Both dudes are gay metrosexuals, so it's a draw.

Get a horse!

 

 

 

I need to find the article bout Harley going electric. Never saw that coming. Honda, sure. But Harley?

[raz-0 1,259]

21 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

Last time moron, I never said anything doesn't die, in fact I explicitly said nothing lasts forever multiple times.  Of course you'd think a couple people with anecdotes now proves that internal engines are more reliable than electric.  I never said they never fail, I said they are more reliable.  Once again you show your stupidity, and you are so proud of it, fascinating.

 

You keep clinging to this, again showing you have no idea of which you speak, but you believe it completely.  Is that stupidity, or arrogance?  As I said, I do know exactly what happens, you keep implying something bad happens, because as I said, you think your opinion is fact.  

Since you've tried to weasel out of this 3 times now, I'll end the suspense (are you too stupid to google "Tesla reboot while driving"?

Facts don't care about your feelings....

 

Sure they are.  You are just like the main stream media on Trump, really reaching to find negative things to say, while ignoring everything else.

 

Most people aren't amazed by what isn't there, congrats.


And my last bit of info for you, (and I'm sure you will have many insults to try to bait me, but it won't work, I don't care about your out of touch opinion)...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/09/06/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking-updated/#39e7dd9603fe

 

 

 

 

Your Forbes article is a fanboy who says the used ice market will collapse by September 2021 or 2022. While simultaneously quoting Porsche as saying 2030 for an all electric lineup. 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Here’s one.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/7-innovative-electric-motorcycle-companies-to-keep-an-eye-on.html/

Zero has been out for awhile. 

[Darrenf 422]

12 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Your Forbes article is a fanboy who says the used ice market will collapse by September 2021 or 2022. While simultaneously quoting Porsche as saying 2030 for an all electric lineup. 

 

His Nostrodamous opinions aside, his facts are correct.  EVs are more reliable, cheaper to operate, and getting cheaper to acquire. 

 

Personally I hope that not only do gasoline powered cars never disappear, I hope they stay affordable to operate. I like choice. Some people love the rumble of a big cam, and who doesn’t love the sound of a flat plane crank V8

[Darrenf 422]

30 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I need to find the article bout Harley going electric. Never saw that coming. Honda, sure. But Harley?

This is an odd one for sure. The day they stop making their twins will be the day they die. 

 

Nothing wrong with expanding the lineup though. 

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, Darrenf said:

This is an odd one for sure. The day they stop making their twins will be the day they die. 

 

Nothing wrong with expanding the lineup though. 

Well apparently the hold 50% of the new bike market. But they’ve made some unpatriotic boneheaded moves recently.

[carl_g 568]

Harley’s are junk. Sorry.

[Sniper 6,372]

47 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

His Nostrodamous opinions aside, his facts are correct.  EVs are more reliable, cheaper to operate, and getting cheaper to acquire. 

That dude is a total fanboy, like you. If you can't see that, you didn't read his article. Here's proof from that article:

A quick scan of the top 10 cars repairs of 2015 is telling. Only one of these faults can happen to an electric vehicle (number 4, and it is by far the cheapest to fix).

I've been driving like 4 decades, I've never had to do the majority of those repairs to any of my cars or wifey's cars with the multiple cars we've owned. I changed a thermostat once.

Try again.

I just rolled through 60K miles on my truck. Besides oil and filter changes, I haven't spent a nickle on repairs on my ICE vehicle like he claims. I just did the first brakes and tires on it, which you have to do on EV's too, so that's a wash.

For anyone to claim Tesla's are more reliable then ICE cars today (with all their technology) is just MORE fanboy stuff.

[BobA 1,235]

7 hours ago, Sniper said:

I've been driving like 4 decades, I've never had to do the majority of those repairs to any of my cars or wifey's cars with the multiple cars we've owned. I changed a thermostat once.

Dude, you’re old.