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mjhvn

Any license that "supersedes" NJ laws?

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Is there any federal license or other license for personal use to ease the pain of some of the laws in the state? I am not a fan of the laws of NJ but I do follow them just see if I could continue to do so but also get more interesting things. I am sure that this has been asked before but I thought I'd take a shot at it. 

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2 hours ago, PK90 said:

Gun laws? Get your FFL or become a LEO.

Agree with Paul on both counts.

To ease the burden of buying guns, and you have an interest in the business, get an FFL.  Plenty in NJ operate out of the house.  But of course, you are then inviting the ATF and State Police into your home.

 

1 hour ago, carl_g said:

+1 Moving is the easiest option.

Second best is...

Get a storage room or a friend in "America" and keep your fun toys there.

 

  • Agree 1

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Yea, moving is best. Friends or family, better... but have to make sure the state doesn’t change laws.

To be completely honest, if I could do it all over again... I’d have picked up my C&R years ago. Not everyone is into older guns, but as long as they are NJ legal, no pistol permits unless you buy within NJ (C&R or not). I only have two qualified handguns that I bought normally... but I likely would have bought A LOT more. Older Colts, S&Ws, Soviet designs, Brownings, FNs... list goes on. Picked up three with my license, and likely a fourth before I leave in April.

Going with a FFL-01 is definitely doable... but I personally wouldn’t want to deal with a business. Maybe with the change in career/residence... but dealing with customers with my current job, I rather not have to deal with that one jerk-off who is bound to walk through my door.

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1 hour ago, Screwball said:

Yea, moving is best. Friends or family, better... but have to make sure the state doesn’t change laws.

To be completely honest, if I could do it all over again... I’d have picked up my C&R years ago. Not everyone is into older guns, but as long as they are NJ legal, no pistol permits unless you buy within NJ (C&R or not). I only have two qualified handguns that I bought normally... but I likely would have bought A LOT more. Older Colts, S&Ws, Soviet designs, Brownings, FNs... list goes on. Picked up three with my license, and likely a fourth before I leave in April.

Going with a FFL-01 is definitely doable... but I personally wouldn’t want to deal with a business. Maybe with the change in career/residence... but dealing with customers with my current job, I rather not have to deal with that one jerk-off who is bound to walk through my door.

I like C&R guns (50 years old or older) most of my collection is C&R based. When you say you don't need a pistol permit to buy a handgun I'm assuming because you buy out of state C&R guns or any pistol? 

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38 minutes ago, mjhvn said:

I like C&R guns (50 years old or older) most of my collection is C&R based. When you say you don't need a pistol permit to buy a handgun I'm assuming because you buy out of state C&R guns or any pistol? 

Out of state... two at Oaks (same guy), and a private sale, which was also in PA. Can’t buy non-C&R firearms with that license (C&R does include some collectible firearms, made within the 50 year limit; just off the top of my head, those WWI 1911s that Colt did, with gold writing and crap on it).

Pistol permits are required if I buy within NJ... C&R or not. I don’t know how a C&R pistol transfer would go down from a FFL-01 within NJ, but a permit is clearly needed.

I always wanted to get a cheap C&R long gun over to Monmouth Arms, as Steve said he would check with the NJSP on how it would go down... but just never got ambitious enough to look for something.

Pistol wise, I’m too close from leaving to even get a permit back to attempt it.

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17 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Out of state... two at Oaks (same guy), and a private sale, which was also in PA. Can’t buy non-C&R firearms with that license (C&R does include some collectible firearms, made within the 50 year limit; just off the top of my head, those WWI 1911s that Colt did, with gold writing and crap on it).

Pistol permits are required if I buy within NJ... C&R or not. I don’t know how a C&R pistol transfer would go down from a FFL-01 within NJ, but a permit is clearly needed.

I always wanted to get a cheap C&R long gun over to Monmouth Arms, as Steve said he would check with the NJSP on how it would go down... but just never got ambitious enough to look for something.

Pistol wise, I’m too close from leaving to even get a permit back to attempt it.

Ok thanks. Might get one in the future. I just wanted to see if anyone surpassed these difficult laws.

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2 hours ago, mjhvn said:

With an FFL 07 in NJ what can you do? I am going to assume you have one or know someone with it.

I don't, u would need a manufacturer license from NJ as well. But you can make just about anything you want that's a no no in NJ.

 

All those you tube videos of guys shooting full auto new style weapons are most likely ffl07

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1 hour ago, mjhvn said:

Doesn't being a manufacturer come with ATF troubles and possible NJ troubles. Also do I need to have an intent to sell because all I want is to aquire different things for myself. 

They ALL come with "troubles". Not sure what you mean. 

They all require the ATF approval and any of them that are a business require NJ licensing. 

Intent is a very hard thing to prove. As a manufacturer, your business model is to create or design new weapons for civilian, police or military use. The ATF cant shut you down because people don't buy your products or do business with you... 

Perhaps youre just naive, nothing will easy the pain of living in NJ... ALL FFL licenses are a far bigger pain in the ass and cost way more money than applying for permits PER YEAR.

You can however get access to otherwise illegal to possess firearms. 

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18 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

They ALL come with "troubles". Not sure what you mean. 

They all require the ATF approval and any of them that are a business require NJ licensing. 

I mean a visit from the ATF. I know that the paperwork and cost is in general trouble.

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3 minutes ago, mjhvn said:

I mean a visit from the ATF. I know that the paperwork and xost is in general trouble.

They all require a visit from the ATF, an agent comes out to interview you and establish where the FFL will be operating. You will also run into zoning issues since they are considered business licenses. They will also do random spot checks for all of them, including the C&R license.

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9 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

They all require a visit from the ATF, an agent comes out to interview you and establish where the FFL will be operating. You will also run into zoning issues since they are considered business licenses. They will also do random spot checks for all of them, including the C&R license.

So it's either accept the laws or become best friends with an atf agent to have a cool collection in NJ. Also your home turns into a business even if you don't intend to sell anything. Ah so you really can't win in NJ.

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1 minute ago, mjhvn said:

So it's either accept the laws or become best friends with an atf agent to have a cool collection in NJ. Also your home turns into a business even if you don't intend to sell anything. Ah so you really can't win in NJ.

Nope, very hard to win. You can establish the business on your property separate from your house if possible. Like a detached garage/storage shed.. but it needs to be legit. 

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26 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

They will also do random spot checks for all of them, including the C&R license.

C&R... far from random.

When you apply, you give times/days you are available. If they were going to come to audit, they set it up based off your times.

For them to randomly come, they have a warrant because they have reason to believe a crime is being committed. Shy of that, they will set it up at a time that works with you.

I talked to the ATF investigator when I was going for mine, and said that I would be going to FLETC... before I knew exactly when. Asked what happens if they called while I’m away. She said life happens, and they would likely check to make sure I am actually down there, but then figure it out from there.

That being said, the ATF isn’t just out to jam you up. In regards to C&Rs, they want you to follow the law. Not scary people to ask a question from... there was a YouTube video on Forgotten Weapons that mentioned finding a machine gun. If you watch that video, I can agree with the entire view on them (obviously, if you start asking about a machine gun... they aren’t going to just forget your inquiry; need to follow it up... but not looking to jam you up). They aren’t stupid either... if you are trying to get over on them, not going to be a fun experience.

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59 minutes ago, Screwball said:

C&R... far from random.

When you apply, you give times/days you are available. If they were going to come to audit, they set it up based off your times.

For them to randomly come, they have a warrant because they have reason to believe a crime is being committed. Shy of that, they will set it up at a time that works with you.

I talked to the ATF investigator when I was going for mine, and said that I would be going to FLETC... before I knew exactly when. Asked what happens if they called while I’m away. She said life happens, and they would likely check to make sure I am actually down there, but then figure it out from there.

That being said, the ATF isn’t just out to jam you up. In regards to C&Rs, they want you to follow the law. Not scary people to ask a question from... there was a YouTube video on Forgotten Weapons that mentioned finding a machine gun. If you watch that video, I can agree with the entire view on them (obviously, if you start asking about a machine gun... they aren’t going to just forget your inquiry; need to follow it up... but not looking to jam you up). They aren’t stupid either... if you are trying to get over on them, not going to be a fun experience.

You give them times/days you are available. But do they schedule an appointment for a specific day and time? Obviously it makes sense they would want to be able to check your books and inventory when you are available. This would be relatable to them coming during operational hours.

I'd imagine they call you randomly to set up an appointment for inspection, i think someone said you can actually go to them for it too...

Not AS random as an FFL, but still kinda random as to when they will call you to look at your books and inventory.  

 

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

You give them times/days you are available. But do they schedule an appointment for a specific day and time? Obviously it makes sense they would want to be able to check your books and inventory when you are available. This would be relatable to them coming during operational hours.

I'd imagine they call you randomly to set up an appointment for inspection, i think someone said you can actually go to them for it too...

Not AS random as an FFL, but still kinda random as to when they will call you to look at your books and inventory.

I actually had a very nicely written reply... and it didn’t save. Thank you mobile site.

Whatever day/time you give... they call you then, and ask what works for you. Usually gives you at least a week heads up, so not random at all (read further about this). Random... as in coming over out of the blue... that means they likely have a warrant because there is reason to believe a crime is being committed. They cannot demand you to be there at X day, since it is not a business, and you have a life. Like I said, I specifically asked about FLETC... and if they confirm I’m telling the truth, what are they going to do? I’d hope they bust down the door and try to get into my safe... lawsuit would set me up pretty well for Maine.

There are about 375 business FFLs within NJ, and exactly 115 FFL-03s. With staffing and resources, the Investigator I spoke with said they do your interview... and then meet with you every other renewal (six years; if I misunderstood, which I doubt because of how clear she was, you renew every three years). Mainly done to make sure everything is good, and to confirm you aren’t doing things wrong. She said that she had seen people acquire M1 Carbines on follow ups. Due to the low number of C&Rs, and demands based on a limited staff... that likely was the best course of action for them to take.

To put this in further perspective, go on any forum that discusses C&Rs (not just NJ). Do you hear about C&R audits that much? There are about 133,000 FFLs in the entire US... about 55,000 are FFL-01s. FFL-03s... about 53,000. And these are covered by an agency with somewhere between 2,000 and 2,500 Investigators (and I’m going off rough numbers, not figuring other roles that they handle; probably on the lower end of that range, as I didn’t factor in support personnel in my estimate).

Point being, audits suck in any situation; taxes, labor, or firearms. Paul from NJ Arms told me about his audit (wasn’t bad, but was a few days of not normal operation). I also remember the ordeal with HGW’s audit (I was called by HGW to write a letter that I received a gun that wasn’t recorded out of their gunsmith book... had no issue doing it, just they didn’t realize that they actually still had it). But people make it sound like getting a C&R is going to result in the ATF coming in like the start of the siege at Waco. Keep your A&D book squared away, don’t do illegal crap (like buy a M1 Carbine on a C&R based in NJ), and you’ll be fine.

FFL numbers above were from 12/2018, per ATF statistics.

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You want to be an RPO, not a LEO, if you have more than two handguns. If I was in my department I could only qualify with one or two off duty firearms. As an RPO I have 8 on file. So for only those weapons I can have 15 round magazines. Murphy had a very low turnout to win. That and a lame Republican candidate, get active.

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