remixer 1,645 Posted February 19, 2019 also steering away from the squib would be the very evenness of both cracks. Both are perfectly straight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, remixer said: also steering away from the squib would be the very evenness of both cracks. Both are perfectly straight The thing of it is... the bulge... Now.. I suppose IF the crack started happening, caused the bullet to get lodged... then follow up shot blew it up? May also explain the filthy barrel with what looks to be lead. So there was most definitely obstruction... next is what caused it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 19, 2019 Barrel looks twisted in relationship to dovetail. like getting a drill bit stuck and the drill moves instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted February 19, 2019 Scary, I have the same model so seeing that is a little disappointing and concerning if in fact the barrel is flawed. I have no idea what the cause was but after seeing that I’ll probably be looking at my 357 a little funny next time at the range. I had to send my rifle back to Wisconsin once for a minor issue because with the buckhorn site so rather than ruin it I opened a trouble ticket. I think the NJ Rep was busting my balls, she said the Wisconsin staff just sits around eating cheese all day so they’ll be slooow getting back to me LOL. I guess it was within 30 minutes after opening the RMA in jersey the Wisconsin folks emailed me the RMA info. The rifle was shipped and returned within 2.5 weeks so they’ll likely do the same for you. BTW I’m the guy that contacted you yesterday about the inbound SR-22. Good luck, I think Henry will take care of of it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 19, 2019 I surmise the crack happened after the obstruction, when the barrel torqued free of the dovetail 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lakota 342 Posted February 19, 2019 regardless of the reason .. I still can't get past how something like this happens and the gun gets put away with it being being noticed. Seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lakota said: regardless of the reason .. I still can't get past how something like this happens and the gun gets put away with it being being noticed. Seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. There are "gun owners" and "gun people." 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted February 19, 2019 bad barrel with premature fatigue crack tension fissures from the forging process not being done properly. a squib or any obstruction of the barrel would have a vastly different exit expenditure. Couple that with the location of the linear break and it's a no brainer. I'll bet the cooling process was not done properly on top of that, anyone shooting a rifle that encounters a squib would know it, it's not subtle. Couple that with the fact that the guy shooting a 38/357 isn't really target practicing past 50-75 yards for the most part and is watching his paper. He had no idea here.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, Zeke said: I surmise the crack happened after the obstruction, when the barrel torqued free of the dovetail Alleged obstruction 29 minutes ago, Lakota said: regardless of the reason .. I still can't get past how something like this happens and the gun gets put away with it being being noticed. Seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. If it was not an explosive thing and more a little by little opening then it might be able to happen without noticing. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 19, 2019 Should we start a pool? Flawed barrel or obstruction? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, GRIZ said: Should we start a pool? Flawed barrel or obstruction? I think whatever the cause henry will fix it. They are a solid company with amazing support .... I think in the end they will make it right. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted February 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, remixer said: I think whatever the cause henry will fix it. They are a solid company with amazing support .... I think in the end they will make it right. The first question they will ask is " What kind of ammo were you shooting " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 20, 2019 I don't see a hair line fracture opening up like that at the end of the muzzle. That thing tore and peeled open. At a place where pressure is the least, for smallest amount of time... It doesn't matter how strait the crack is, most steel when hardened will crack like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 20, 2019 I would love to know if the owner used lead ammo and never cleaned the gun. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: I would love to know if the owner used lead ammo and never cleaned the gun. I don't think that's an issue. To my experience most leading is close to the chamber or forcing cone where pressure is the highest. Thats not a lot of crap at the muzzle. It shows up better on stainless. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 20, 2019 You'd really have to shoot a lot of crappy lead bullets to get high pressure issues with conventional rifling. Polygonal rifling doesn't take that much. There's not much lead 357 ammo out there. Most of it is pretty mild. If he was shooting lead 38s they wouldn't be fast enough to create leading issues. My money is still on a squib or other bore obstruction. No other reason for a barrel to fail by the muzzle. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: I would love to know if the owner used lead ammo and never cleaned the gun. 200 rounds of LRN would not foul a barrel enough to cause the kaboom. I can't say with any certainty what caused this, but there are some things worth noting. The barrel did not explode, it split at the muzzle. The split was clean and it occurred at the weakest point. Exploded barrels are literally torn, twisted and usually bulged. Whatever happened, whether it was a squib at the end of the barrel or dirt or grease or whatever, it was, in my opinion, caused by a marginal obstruction that caused the split. It failed at the low end of however much energy would be necessary to crack it open. Based on the owners feedback to Steve, he did not notice or hear anything unusual. There was not enough resistance ( not good with physics but it may be called potential energy) to cause a massive catastrophic failure, just a tiny catastrophic failure. There is also a possibility that the event was caused by two things, not just one. Though it is less likely, it is still a possibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted February 20, 2019 Im thinking the dovetail interference fit was too tight causing the barrel to crack, stainless steel is brittle so this could happen very easy. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: 200 rounds of LRN would not foul a barrel enough to cause the kaboom. I can't say with any certainty what caused this, but there are some things worth noting. The barrel did not explode, it split at the muzzle. The split was clean and it occurred at the weakest point. Exploded barrels are literally torn, twisted and usually bulged. Whatever happened, whether it was a squib at the end of the barrel or dirt or grease or whatever, it was, in my opinion, caused by a marginal obstruction that caused the split. It failed at the low end of however much energy would be necessary to crack it open. Based on the owners feedback to Steve, he did not notice or hear anything unusual. There was not enough resistance ( not good with physics but it may be called potential energy) to cause a massive catastrophic failure, just a tiny catastrophic failure. There is also a possibility that the event was caused by two things, not just one. Though it is less likely, it is still a possibility. @myhatinthering @Scorpio64 I certainly agree that an experienced shooter WILL notice when there is a squib, but when it is simply and undercharged round it is far more difficult. To give you an example, I had a few questionable rounds that I did not want to pull so simply shot them KNOWING they were possibly squibs. In either case, one of the rounds was not a full squib BUT was undercharged with about 1.5 or 2 grains of powder. The Slide FULLY cycled but the bullet was lodged in the barrel. It did not sound much different. Then, RO'ing USPSA, in most of the times when a shooter would be stopped by the RO when we suspected the SQUIB... RO was the one that was stopping them, NOT the shooter. When adrenaline is going most shooters don't know to stop or even pay attention to recoil... they are too busy aiming and making sure it is downrange. Factor in that this was likely indoor or another public range... I would hardly expect a good answer. Most of all, the guy didn't see that his barrel split until he came home and tried to clean the freaking thing... Do you honestly expect him to keep track of how the gun sounded, and fired? Heck... for all we know the gun barrel split and he shot another 15 or 20 rounds through it then packed up wondering why his accuracy went down, lol. Sorry, if you don't know that your gun barrel blew up... I can't take your gun opinion seriously. Facts are... Oblivious gun owner shooting less than good to crap ammo (Herters, Fiocchi). Barrel is completely bulged. As far as it not blowing up a ton... squibs come in all shapes and sizes... I do think he shot it out and it was not bad as it could have been because 1. it was near the end of the barrel, 2. weakest points there gave way. Very often shooters will just end up shooting a squib out and it entirely depends on the quality of the gun and the barrel whether it blows up or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maksim said: for all we know the gun barrel split and he shot another 15 or 20 rounds through it then packed up wondering why his accuracy went down, lol. That's probably exactly the way it went down. Whatever happened was not a massive event. It was just enough to crack the barrel at it's weakest point, but not enough to cause a big blowout. i.e. a marginal event. I do agree, that it's a little weird he didn't notice until he went to clean the gun. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted February 20, 2019 11 hours ago, remixer said: For those who dont know what a Squib is... Here's an example That's not "an" example. That's ELELEVEN examples! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Maksim said: @myhatinthering @Scorpio64 I certainly agree that an experienced shooter WILL notice when there is a squib, but when it is simply and undercharged round it is far more difficult. To give you an example, I had a few questionable rounds that I did not want to pull so simply shot them KNOWING they were possibly squibs. In either case, one of the rounds was not a full squib BUT was undercharged with about 1.5 or 2 grains of powder. The Slide FULLY cycled but the bullet was lodged in the barrel. It did not sound much different. Then, RO'ing USPSA, in most of the times when a shooter would be stopped by the RO when we suspected the SQUIB... RO was the one that was stopping them, NOT the shooter. When adrenaline is going most shooters don't know to stop or even pay attention to recoil... they are too busy aiming and making sure it is downrange. Factor in that this was likely indoor or another public range... I would hardly expect a good answer. Most of all, the guy didn't see that his barrel split until he came home and tried to clean the freaking thing... Do you honestly expect him to keep track of how the gun sounded, and fired? Heck... for all we know the gun barrel split and he shot another 15 or 20 rounds through it then packed up wondering why his accuracy went down, lol. Sorry, if you don't know that your gun barrel blew up... I can't take your gun opinion seriously. Facts are... Oblivious gun owner shooting less than good to crap ammo (Herters, Fiocchi). Barrel is completely bulged. As far as it not blowing up a ton... squibs come in all shapes and sizes... I do think he shot it out and it was not bad as it could have been because 1. it was near the end of the barrel, 2. weakest points there gave way. Very often shooters will just end up shooting a squib out and it entirely depends on the quality of the gun and the barrel whether it blows up or not. bet your 686? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 20, 2019 8 hours ago, remixer said: also steering away from the squib would be the very evenness of both cracks. Both are perfectly straight Straight would be along the groove of the barrel, the weakest part be it a squib or a manufacturing defect. The thing that steers me toward a squib is the bulge. Why would there be a bulge in the barrel if there were no obstruction? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TOMMY R 24 Posted February 20, 2019 Whether a Squib or bad workmanship the hardest part of this story is he noticed it when he got home. It's a HENRY RIFLE meaning it does not have a side loading gate, meaning it has to be loaded where the damage is just seems odd after the alleged last shot it was put away and taken home. Sorry just an observation not an argument starer. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, GRIZ said: Straight would be along the groove of the barrel, the weakest part be it a squib or a manufacturing defect. The thing that steers me toward a squib is the bulge. Why would there be a bulge in the barrel if there were no obstruction? actually the question is....Is that a bulge or just deformation from the crack opening. If you cut 1" of a barrel and force that crack open it will appear to bulge. also take note i find it interesting that it cracked and deformed at exactly the point where the dovetail was cut... not before or after it.. directly where it was cut (closest to the receiver) and dead center length wise in the dove tail. another thing i noticed was the tube itself that is below the barrel. The knurled nut shows zero damage only slight blacked line from powder... If it were a squib or obstruction that caused a barrel to crack and bulge would there not be forces coming out of that crack to atleast show some damage or scratches or dents or anything.... it almost seems like it was progressive and only gas and power exiting the crack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, TOMMY R said: Whether a Squib or bad workmanship the hardest part of this story is he noticed it when he got home. It's a HENRY RIFLE meaning it does not have a side loading gate, meaning it has to be loaded where the damage is just seems odd after the alleged last shot it was put away and taken home. Sorry just an observation not an argument starer. valid point... but it very well might have happened on his last tube of ammo. (again assuming the owner is telling me exactly how it happened). Is it likely he shot the ammo out then when empty just put away without opening the tube end based on racking the lever and no more ammo... its very possible. also i ask myself why would he not tell me the truth.... if i just purchased a rifle and put 200 round in it and the barrel exploded i would certainly not be shy from saying so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Ray Ray said: I would love to know if the owner used lead ammo and never cleaned the gun. 9 hours ago, GRIZ said: I don't think that's an issue. To my experience most leading is close to the chamber or forcing cone where pressure is the highest. Thats not a lot of crap at the muzzle. It shows up better on stainless. Agree 9 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: 200 rounds of LRN would not foul a barrel enough to cause the kaboom. I can't say with any certainty what caused this, but there are some things worth noting. The barrel did not explode, it split at the muzzle. The split was clean and it occurred at the weakest point. Exploded barrels are literally torn, twisted and usually bulged. Whatever happened, whether it was a squib at the end of the barrel or dirt or grease or whatever, it was, in my opinion, caused by a marginal obstruction that caused the split. It failed at the low end of however much energy would be necessary to crack it open. Based on the owners feedback to Steve, he did not notice or hear anything unusual. There was not enough resistance ( not good with physics but it may be called potential energy) to cause a massive catastrophic failure, just a tiny catastrophic failure. There is also a possibility that the event was caused by two things, not just one. Though it is less likely, it is still a possibility. Agree on the 200 rounds not enough to cause kaboom I also agree it did not Explode.. it opened up... there is a difference. the idea that 2 seperate events caused this does make sense. 1 crack opened up as he continued to shoot it deformed the barrel crown which might have cause the last few rounds to hit the barrel since it was height wise from the opening of the crack... it did make the barrel shorting in height 9 hours ago, tony357 said: Im thinking the dovetail interference fit was too tight causing the barrel to crack, stainless steel is brittle so this could happen very easy. it appears that way form what i can see 8 hours ago, Maksim said: @myhatinthering @Scorpio64 Most of all, the guy didn't see that his barrel split until he came home and tried to clean the freaking thing... Do you honestly expect him to keep track of how the gun sounded, and fired? Heck... for all we know the gun barrel split and he shot another 15 or 20 rounds through it then packed up wondering why his accuracy went down, lol. Sorry, if you don't know that your gun barrel blew up... I can't take your gun opinion seriously. 1. it did not Explode. 2. If it was not a squib and just a crack and opened due to pressure it might not be that noticeable when shooting it. 3. When using hearing protection its not as easy to notice slight differences in shooting (unless using electronic hearing protection) 4. He never mentioned anything about accuracy going down... The accuracy difference might not have been that great depending on his ability and distance from the target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 20, 2019 If this was a Marlin, the owner would be fucked. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 20, 2019 34 minutes ago, remixer said: also i ask myself why would he not tell me the truth.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites