New online permitting system?!?

[BobA 1,235]

Just now, Sniper said:

You think we're not already in some databases now (and have been)?

I don’t think we are with the intensity he wants. Ending P2P and now attacking inherented guns and ammo reporting. It’s obvious what he’s doing. 

[dilbert1967 146]

12 minutes ago, BobA said:

I don’t think we are with the intensity he wants. Ending P2P and now attacking inherented guns and ammo reporting. It’s obvious what he’s doing. 

I don't think he'll end P2P because that's been giving him a database to start with.  The problem is its not updated.  People move out of state, pass away, and family members inherit the "collection".  I guess he thinks he solved the inheritance "problem" with the new bill he's proposing.  He's not going to solve the ammo reporting "problem" either.  But he will make it more difficult to buy and drive some of the smaller gun shops out of business. They could also relocate to PA.

[Sniper 6,372]

I would like to hope that there are at least a few guys working at the State Police that recognize our constitutional rights, and have designed this new system to make it easier and less labor intensive for the local PDs, even if some of the local PDs aren't interested in it.

Having clerks process manual forms, mail out reference letters, and track it all, is costly. If it can be streamlined by online forms and emailed reference letters, it should be better for everyone in the process, even if Murphy doesn't like it.

[10X 3,296]

On 3/1/2019 at 11:14 PM, DirtyDigz said:

Because I have nothing better to do on a Friday night, some interesting things from the online FAQ:

My emphasis added.  Not sure if your town is participating? Get the ORI number (https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/files/NACJD/ORIs/34oris.html) and try to submit an app.  If you get past the ORI field entry, then your town is likely participating.

On my last submission before this more automated online process was in place, I added the ORI code (found either on the web or on a previous submission) and sent off the STS 033.  The detective acted like I'd stolen nuclear launch codes--I got a short lecture about how HE had to give me the ORI code.

If emailing references is now part of the process, I guess I've got to alert my references to the change.   After more than a decade in which they have never once been contacted for a reference check, they may have gotten complacent.  

 

 

[BobA 1,235]

3 hours ago, dilbert1967 said:

I don't think he'll end P2P because that's been giving him a database to start with. 

He did end face to face P2P. We have to go an fly now. Why is that?

[GRIZ 3,369]

8 hours ago, BobA said:

I think not. I think it’s one step closer to forming a data base. 

There's already a database for everything you've bought on a P2P going back for at least 45 years.

[Underdog 1,593]

Yes, but the current "antiquated" BS system is NOT efficient.  The information is incomplete and jumbled, and it doesn't have info about ammunition that will be electronically kept.  The new system will be a tidy little package that can go down across the state with one push of the gun.  Imagine how that would affect the Mom and Pop sports stores that rely on selling Ammo and the little they get from selling guns.  This will eventually put the all out of business.  And, if sales can only be done through FFLs.... bad situation for gun owners.  

Hello....  yes the current F'd up method is bad and in some jurisdictions more than tyrannical, but this will be across the State and there won't be anyone to go and see when you are not happy with the BS, such as a local Police Chief that your taxes pay.  It will be faceless abuse.  And, yes, I realize Alexa is out there, but she might not have my banking info and social security all in one spot... Unless I say it outloud.  And with this new "system" it will be much easier to Mandate charges, etc.  

[BobA 1,235]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

There's already a database for everything you've bought on a P2P going back for at least 45 years.

Probably with pistols yes. But not private sales with long guns or ammo. Putting all this together leads me to believe he’s making one big one with as much as he can legislate in us as possible. Banning internet sales on ammo and any accessories or parts will clinch that theory for me. 

[BobA 1,235]

2 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Yes, but the current "antiquated" BS system is NOT efficient.  The information is incomplete and jumbled, and it doesn't have info about ammunition that will be electronically kept.  The new system will be a tidy little package that can go down across the state with one push of the gun.  Imagine how that would affect the Mom and Pop sports stores that rely on selling Ammo and the little they get from selling guns.  This will eventually put the all out of business.  And, if sales can only be done through FFLs.... bad situation for gun owners.  

Hello....  yes the current F'd up method is bad and in some jurisdictions more than tyrannical, but this will be across the State and there won't be anyone to go and see when you are not happy with the BS, such as a local Police Chief that your taxes pay.  It will be faceless abuse.  And, yes, I realize Alexa is out there, but she might not have my banking info and social security all in one spot... Unless I say it outloud.  And with this new "system" it will be much easier to Mandate charges, etc.  

Definitely an attempt at streamlining. I won’t believe for a second it’s for our convenience. 

[Underdog 1,593]

I just want to know why the people never  make these insidious, unAmerican, oathbreakers responsible for their actions. 

[gleninjersey 2,141]

13 hours ago, BobA said:

I think not. I think it’s one step closer to forming a data base. 

I was going to post the same as I was reading this in bed last night but my tin foil hat was all the way across the room and I didn't want to get out of bed.

But seriously, I'm all for streamlining the process.  Ideally we should just be able to walk in to a store, say I want that one, have the FBI NICS check completed and walk out.  BUT this new system seems to put all the information a few key strokes away in one place no?.  The old way there is a paper trail but it's just that.  A paper trail.  And it's over hundreds (thousands?) of local PDs across the State.  

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

But seriously, I'm all for streamlining the process.  Ideally we should just be able to walk in to a store, say I want that one, have the FBI NICS check completed and walk out.  BUT this new system seems to put all the information a few key strokes away in one place no?.  The old way there is a paper trail but it's just that.  A paper trail.  And it's over hundreds (thousands?) of local PDs across the State.  

Yeah, but the online system is just the application phase. The hard copy permits will still be paper issued by the local PD. They will have no idea online what you bought unless the FFL send the P2P copies to them. All they know online is that you submitted for permits. Heck, your permits could expire if you don't buy. How would they even know that?

You think they will use this new database to go door to door for confisgation? "We know you applied for permits or FID, so give us your guns" (that we have no idea that you have or don't have)?

 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

14 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Yeah, but the online system is just the application phase. The hard copy permits will still be paper issued by the local PD. They will have no idea online what you bought unless the FFL send the P2P copies to them. All they know online is that you submitted for permits. Heck, your permits could expire if you don't buy. How would they even know that?

You think they will use this new database to go door to door for confisgation? "We know you applied for permits or FID, so give us your guns" (that we have no idea that you have or don't have)?

 

Yes, at a $2 price per permit, we could afford to let MANY just expire as it was only $2 and nice to have just in case!.  At $50 per permit, most people will absolutely use them!

If this passes, my guess is that hand gun sales will drop to 50% of what they are now.  Exactly the outcome our asshole Governor hopes for!

[BobA 1,235]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Yes, at a $2 price per permit, we could afford to let MANY just expire as it was only $2 and nice to have just in case!.  At $50 per permit, most people will absolutely use them!

If this passes, my guess is that hand gun sales will drop to 50% of what they are now.  Exactly the outcome our asshole Governor hopes for!

Expire?  Who lets them expire?  Now there’s a thread. 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Put a call into the LEO handling Firearm applications in my town about the Consent for Mental Health Records Search form (SP-066).  They returned my call this morning and said that if you have lived in NJ for the past 10 years then it is covered with the online application.

Per the LEO, you only have to go into the local PD if you've lived outside of NJ in the past 10 years.

20 hours ago, 10X said:

... The detective acted like I'd stolen nuclear launch codes--I got a short lecture about how HE had to give me the ORI code. ... 

I suspect some towns were used to having the obscurity of the ORI codes act as a "control point".  Welcome to the information age!

[weekend_junkie 129]

7 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Put a call into the LEO handling Firearm applications in my town about the Consent for Mental Health Records Search form (SP-066).  They returned my call this morning and said that if you have lived in NJ for the past 10 years then it is covered with the online application.

Interesting that you got that answer. My understanding was that paper records of mental health were held at the county office.  In that case, moving between counties necessitated the check.

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

On 3/5/2019 at 12:06 PM, 10X said:

If emailing references is now part of the process, I guess I've got to alert my references to the change.   After more than a decade in which they have never once been contacted for a reference check, they may have gotten complacent.  

 

 

The new system send you an email confirmation that the references have responded to the check. I don’t know what questions are asked of the reference. 

[BobA 1,235]

1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said:

The new system send you an email confirmation that the references have responded to the check. I don’t know what questions are asked of the reference. 

One of my usual references doesn't even have an email. 

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said:

The new system send you an email confirmation that the references have responded to the check. I don’t know what questions are asked of the reference. 

One of my references said it's the same questions as the mail in form, just online. Once they complete the Yes/No portion and hit submit, you'll get the email confirmation that they did the reference.

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

28 minutes ago, BobA said:

One of my usual references doesn't even have an email. 

Time to update your references to the 21st century!! 

[BobA 1,235]

8 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

Time to update your references to the 21st century!! 

Yeah.  OK.  I've also got a friend in his 60's that refuses to have a cell phone.  And I'll admit I have a pickup with roll down windows and I love it.  But I'll agree with a previous post, I'm done applying and buying here.  I'll sit on what I have for the next 3 years until I can retire to Maine.  But just for the record: I have no guns or ammo.  Look somewhere else.  

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I filled out the online form for 3 P2Ps on Monday night. My references responded the next morning, yesterday. I got an email a few minutes later that they had responded. I went to my PD with the forms I printed from the application with a check to pay the $6 fee.

The clerk said she never saw the forms I brought in and was not aware of the new online application. She took my check and my phone # in case the detectives have any questions. I am actually expecting my permits any day now and I am only 2 days into the process!

 

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I filled out the online form for 3 P2Ps on Monday night. My references responded the next morning, yesterday. I got an email a few minutes later that they had responded. I went to my PD with the forms I printed from the application with a check to pay the $6 fee.

The clerk said she never saw the forms I brought in and was not aware of the new online application. She took my check and my phone # in case the detectives have any questions. I am actually expecting my permits any day now and I am only 2 days into the process!

 

Johnny,

Please keep me informed of your progress. I haven't put in for any permits since 2017.

But I bet Michelle still has to type out your permits on her Underwood!

[Sniper 6,372]

14 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I filled out the online form for 3 P2Ps on Monday night. My references responded the next morning, yesterday. I got an email a few minutes later that they had responded. I went to my PD with the forms I printed from the application with a check to pay the $6 fee.

The clerk said she never saw the forms I brought in and was not aware of the new online application.

Exactly the same thing that happened to me today.

15 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

She took my check and my phone # in case the detectives have any questions.

She wouldn't take my form or money, as she said they weren't processing online forms and told me to call a specific guy tomorrow, as he was going to check with the SP. Instead, she gave me the old style paper packet to fill out. Problem is, I already paid the $21 fee on Monday online.

17 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I am actually expecting my permits any day now and I am only 2 days into the process!

Really optimistic, are we?

[JohnnyB 4,325]

1 minute ago, Sniper said:

Exactly the same thing that happened to me today.

She wouldn't take my form or money, as she said they weren't processing online forms and told me to call a specific guy tomorrow, as he was going to check with the SP. Instead, she gave me the old style paper packet to fill out. Problem is, I already paid the $21 fee on Monday online.

Really optimistic, are we?

Actually, I am very optimistic!  My clerk took my $6 check and said "I will call you when your permits are ready to pickup"! She also questioned why I paid the $21 fee.

I really expect a record time from app to having the permit in hand!

[Sniper 6,372]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Actually, I am very optimistic!  My clerk took my $6 check and said "I will call you when your permits are ready to pickup"! She also questioned why I paid the $21 fee.

Did you turn in the SP-066 form with your $6?

Why you paid the $21 fee? Maybe because it was required?? Duh... Where do they find these people?

[JohnnyB 4,325]

16 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Did you turn in the SP-066 form with your $6?

Why you paid the $21 fee? Maybe because it was required?? Duh... Where do they find these people?

No SP-066.  I never paid more than the $2 per permit fee and I never filled out or paid for any mental health check, online or otherwise. At least that I can recall! Perhaps they check my background and see I was once a member of their PD! Who knows? Who cares? As long as I get my permits!

[Sniper 6,372]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

No SP-066.  I never paid more than the $2 per permit fee and I never filled out or paid for any mental health check, online or otherwise. At least that I can recall!

No SP-066... how did you manage that, bring them wine?

Actually, the $21 online fee is BS too, plus the $6 to the PD. Screwing us again.

The paper packet they gave me today to fill out states I need to go onto the SP portal and fill out a online criminal records request form and pay $20. Then return the confirmation email back to them. When I bring back that confirmation, I have to sign the SP-066 in front of them. The electronic results gets sent directly to the PD.

I don't remember having to do that last time I got permits. Must be another way to extract money from us for a "Right".

Interesting, they will receive the results of the criminal records check electronically, but they claim they can't receive the electronic application and references the same way. Sounds screwed up.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

9 minutes ago, Sniper said:

No SP-066... how did you manage that, bring them wine?

Actually, the $21 online fee is BS too, plus the $6 to the PD. Screwing us again.

The paper packet they gave me today to fill out states I need to go onto the SP portal and fill out a online criminal records request form and pay $20. Then return the confirmation email back to them. When I bring back that confirmation, I have to sign the SP-066 in front of them. The electronic results gets sent directly to the PD.

I don't remember having to do that last time I got permits. Must be another way to extract money from us for a "Right".

Interesting, they will receive the results of the criminal records check electronically, but they claim they can't receive the electronic application and references the same way. Sounds screwed up.

Sounds like your PD is anti 2A for it's residents! Mine is VERY pro 2A. The leadership believes we should all have CCW rights. Seems the amount of bullshit we put up with is not all on the state. Much is due to the personal opinions of the local PD leadership! 

I did the online form and paid $21......Paid $6 to PD.......Waiting for permits!  What a difference a good CLEO that abides by his Constitutional oath can make!

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

Sounds like your PD is anti 2A for it's residents! Mine is VERY pro 2A.

Actually, they took about a month last time I applied via the paper trail, so not too bad. They just seem to be a little "slow" as in mental processing, hick town.

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

Seems the amount of bullshit we put up with is not all on the state. Much is due to the personal opinions of the local PD leadership! 

That's definitely true. My town is a "red" town, so there isn't too many obstructions, except for just being pineys.

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

I did the online form and paid $21

Right, me too.  We didn't have to pay that when we did normal paper trail permits, just the $2 per permit, did we?

I'll be interested when I talk to the guy in charge tomorrow what their deal is with accepting online apps.