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2 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

No doubt there are many lefty Socialists that do in fact own guns......But they dare not advertise that fact publicly . They would be shunned by their fellow libtards in a heartbeat!  Especially if they admitted to owning more that just a rifle or shotgun that belonged to their Grandfather. God forbid they admitted to owning a "Fully Semiautomatic Black Rifle" or two!

Because the only thing they care about are votes and keeping their jobs.  The positions are no longer filled with people who are doing a civil service for the public.  The positions are now career paths and just like you and me they will do and say anything to keep their jobs.  They suck. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

No doubt there are many lefty Socialists that do in fact own guns......But they dare not advertise that fact publicly . They would be shunned by their fellow libtards in a heartbeat!  Especially if they admitted to owning more that just a rifle or shotgun that belonged to their Grandfather. God forbid they admitted to owning a "Fully Semiautomatic Black Rifle" or two!

Or, they are like a few lefty gun owners that I know.

They support gun control.

They own guns that they are actively pushing to be outlawed.

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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

Which liberals are we talking about?  The ones in politics, Hollywood, education and the media that are part of a decades long social engineering project to disarm Americans Nazi style?  Or. are we talking about the liberal voters that have been brainwashed and turned into dependents who are loathe to bite the hand that feeds them?

Are you suggesting the way to win this issue is to subvert a massive political machine, backed by money from the likes of Soros, that we must infiltrate the ranks of their loyal foot soldiers, and win them over (house by house) in a massive CIA style psy-ops campaign?

If the issue was solely firearms, there might be a chance at effecting a marginal amount of influence with a charm campaign.  But, it's not just firearms, is it?  It's a massive anti tradition, anti straight white male, anti christian, anti pro life, anti bunch of stuff assault on traditional American values. 

The various liberal factions started out wanting some power and equality, they got that.  Now they want total dominance, they want to take over and change the entire culture of America.  Just look at how the Democrats are trying to push the Republican party off of the political map by awarding electoral votes to whomever has the popular vote.  They are going against the very essence of the electoral college system to create a one party socialist state.

Convincing the liberal hive to go against their queen, by letting  a handful of drones pop off a few rounds, just ain't gonna happen.  The scale of the fight we are facing is too massive.  I don't mean to say that we gun owners should not educate liberals when we have an opportunity to do so.    I am saying, to rely solely on that strategy is foolhardy.  We are fighting for more than just 2A rights.  2A is just one front of a culture war with huge implications for America's political future.

2A is just one of many dominoes the socialists want to tip over.  In fact, it's the one they want to topple the most because it stands in the way of them taking over America the way Hugo Chavez took over Venezuela. 

There is only one way we keep our 2A rights, and that is to stand up and fight.   We can do other things to influence opinions, and it may be somewhat helpful, but that alone will not be effective enough to win.

Agreed. 

 

The Hollywood of today and the liberals it breeds does not match the halycon days of Hollywood of years ago. That culture has faded fast. 

 

 

 

John Barrymore 1937 Clark Gable, W.S Van Dyke wm.jpg

Andy Griffith.jpg

Lombard & Gable.jpg

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33 minutes ago, Parker said:

Agreed. 

 

The Hollywood of today and the liberals it breeds does not match the halycon days of Hollywood of years ago. That culture has faded fast. 

 

 

 

John Barrymore 1937 Clark Gable, W.S Van Dyke wm.jpg

Andy Griffith.jpg

Lombard & Gable.jpg

Very few of the Hollywood past were born with silver spoons in their mouths. Research and you’ll find they were WWII vets. Many went through the depression many came from poor or humble backgrounds. Many of today’s Hollywood elite started elite with a silver coke spoon in their mouths never leaving the bubble they were raised in. 

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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

There is only one way we keep our 2A rights, and that is to stand up and fight.   We can do other things to influence opinions, and it may be somewhat helpful, but that alone will not be effective enough to win.

I agree with everything you posted, so I wasn't going to copy it all. It was completely spot on.

The only way we will get what's right is to FIGHT.

These other feelgood ideas like "take a anti- 2A person to the range" is just feelgood B.S. It will never get the effect needed, only a few individuals might understand. It's not a large enough representation. Trying to have fruitful conversations with anti 2A people is an effort in futility. Their brainwashing by schools, media and Dem politicians runs too deep.

At some point, the guys here need to wake up that a repeat of 1776 will be the ONLY way to get our 2A rights back. Sadly 99% will sit on their asses and whine on this forum, until ALL their 2A rights are gone, and they're back to shooting muskets.

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4 hours ago, W2MC said:

The word you're looking for is MONEY....  The Mom's astroturf movement was funded by Soros and co.

And we have the NRA, GOA, SAF, NAGR, ANJRPC, CNJFO, NJ2AS.

The money is there, but there is no will for the NRA to spend it in NJ.  Lost cause yada yada yada.  I know there are some things being done, but it's not enough.  It's not enough money, time and most of all activism.  We need to clog Trenton, grind it to a halt, have so many people show up that even the Antifa  will stay home pissing their pants because they will be outnumbered and nobody will tolerate their BS.

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14 hours ago, Sniper said:

Basically, we need to intimidate and harass these politicians with ALL possibilities of legal retribution. It's the same thing the Democrats have been doing to Trump, his associates, Kavanaugh, Trump's family, etc. Maybe the fear of being economically buried in legal challenges might make them think twice.

It's time to take a few pages out of the Dem/Socialist/Soros playbook.

We have to stop playing nice and being the nice guys here. Remember, nice guys finish last. (

OK, here is the perfect example below of what I was saying. Here is just what I told you guys would happen with the Dem controlled House.

They are going after Trump, Trump's businesses, anyone associated with Trump, etc. to try and find this elusive Russian collusion (that doesn't exist). The Dems don't give a crap what they allege, even if it's true or not, they just are planning on tying up Trump with so much B.S. inquiries, that he won't have time to do anything else but play defense.

This is exactly what all the 2A organizations need to do with the anti 2A Dem politicians. Bury them in information and legal requests!!!!

Chairman Jerrold Nadler says over 60 entities and individuals close to White House are getting document requests from House Judiciary Committee Monday

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said that his committee will be issuing document requests on Monday to dozens of individuals.

“Tomorrow, we will be issuing document requests to over 60 different people and individuals from the White House to the Department of Justice, Donald Trump, Jr., Allen Weisselberg, to begin the investigations to present the case to the American people about obstruction of justice, corruption and abuse of power,Nadler said on “This Week” Sunday.

“Do you think the president obstructed justice?” asked ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos.

“Yes, I do,” Nadler said.

“We don’t have the facts yet. But we’re going to initiate proper investigations,” but not impeachment investigations.

Nadler said that there can be crimes that “there can be crimes that are impeachable offenses and impeachable offenses that are not crimes.”

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chairman-jerrold-nadler-60-entities-individuals-close-white/story?id=61431025

If there is any "abuse of power", it's all these B.S. investigations the Dems are doing. This is harassment in it's BIGGEST form!!

It's time to turn the tables and use their own tactics against them!!

 

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1 hour ago, Parker said:

Agreed. 

 

The Hollywood of today and the liberals it breeds does not match the halycon days of Hollywood of years ago. That culture has faded fast. 

The stars depicted in the "halcyon days" of Hollywood are all Fudds with shotguns.

This is what we need more of from Hollywood.

0_61_heston_charlton_nraobit.jpg

from-my-cold-kljdnt.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, W2MC said:

The word you're looking for is MONEY....  The Mom's astroturf movement was funded by Soros and co.

No, I don't think so.  I believe the money is there.  We have the people in what we call "the free states" that wave their hands in our blue direction calling us nuts and hopeless.  But we now have a congress that passed a bill on first read that would, if it had a chance to succeed, would become law to effect the freedoms they have that we envy.  The movement is going nationwide. The fight needs to be nationwide. In 2 short years we could lose the Senate and the White House.  "From my cold dead hands" isn't good enough.  History has shown us that FFLs will unquestionably follow along and we will be jumping through hoops just to touch a gun.  

The castle the NRA lives in down in Fairfax and the 5 million+ salary  LaPierre is making leads me to believe the money is there.  An argument could be made that the corporate style look and size is needed to be effective and manage. Another argument could be made that any organization that size has a President earning that.  All fine and I'm not in a position to make or defend those arguments.  But I can't understand an organization of that size and budget not bringing the battle to the streets.  All the streets.  Billboards, radios spots, public sponsorship.  Build an awareness to all.  How could 10 or 20 mil for a nationwide awareness campaign effect keeping the lights on in a 30 million dollar office building?  Would LaPierre not still get paid?  

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm very grateful for all the support I see from them to all the grass roots orgs in this state and around the country.  But they are the ones that need to take charge, lead and organize toward a victory.  They are the only ones with the means on a national level.  What could be the problem?  If they succeeded would they find themselves out of a 5mil per year job?  I don't know.......

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Think the NRA puts out a lot of lobbying $$$?  Think again.  The NRA, at $5.12 million in 2017, doesn't even rate the top 50.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/318177-lobbyings-top-50-whos-spending-big

 

Interestingly, "Open Secrets" puts the NRA much higher for 2016.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2017/11/audit-shows-nra-spending-surged-100-million-amidst-pro-trump-push-in-2016/

 

Who's telling the truth?  Damned if I know.....

 

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32 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Think the NRA puts out a lot of lobbying $$$?  Think again.  The NRA, at $5.12 million in 2017, doesn't even rate the top 50.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/318177-lobbyings-top-50-whos-spending-big

 

Interestingly, "Open Secrets" puts the NRA much higher for 2016.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2017/11/audit-shows-nra-spending-surged-100-million-amidst-pro-trump-push-in-2016/

 

Who's telling the truth?  Damned if I know.....

 

I think it is accurate, The NRA typically doesnt break the top 50....but in 2016.. they did seem to donate WAY more than usual. 

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1 hour ago, BobA said:

No, I don't think so.  I believe the money is there.  

Actually, I don't think the money is there like it needs to be. Main reason, membership.

If reports are accurate, there are between 90 - 100 million gun owners in the country. The NRA claims they have a membership of 5 million.

That's 5% of all gun owners, or 95% who choose NOT to join or don't see the value. Granted, many of the owners are Fudds, but still, the NRA isn't doing a really great job of getting everyone under the same roof, are they?

 

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...and the NRA is the biggest...

Actually this is nothing new. 

My other big hobby - ham radio - has similar issues with the "national" association; the ARRL (American Radio Relay League).  Membership percentages (licensed amateurs vs ARRL members) are similar too. I suspect its similar with most orgaizations.

 

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1 minute ago, Sniper said:

If reports are accurate, there are between 90 - 100 million gun owners in the country. The NRA claims they have a membership of 5 million.

Ok.  Maybe, but I question their survival on only 5 million doing the math on only dues alone.    

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14 minutes ago, BobA said:

Ok.  Maybe, but I question their survival on only 5 million doing the math on only dues alone.    

Me too, as a side bar, I get non-stop solicitations from the NRA weekly looking for more money. Both by email and regular mail. This tells me that they really need more money. It's actually really annoying. All the crap they want you to buy, the constant offers to extend membership, even though mine isn't close to expiring, all the NRA branded bullshit to buy, offers by affiliates..

They should be putting more effort in obtaining NEW members, not hasstling existing ones...

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4 minutes ago, BobA said:

Ok.  Maybe, but I question their survival on only 5 million doing the math on only dues alone.    

5 million members dues annually works out to about $150 Million annual budget.  That does not count capitol gains from investments.  I know some members are life-timers that bought their membership 20 years ago,  but then there are the donors that make contributions outside the dues.  Who can say for sure what their actual budget is.  I dunno, maybe it's published .

If the NRA took 5% of the budget, $7.5M and just hammered NJ with it, just crushed the opposition with endless ad campaigns, mailers to everyone in the state,  and throw in bunches of big highly publicized legal battles, inundating the system with lawsuits.  That actually could make a difference, it would also set an example of what can really happen if you piss off the NRA members enough.  But, for whatever reason, the NRA won't do that.  Money is power, it is what wins wars, elections, gets ugly guys laid, fixes legal problems.

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14 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Who can say for sure what their actual budget is.  I dunno, maybe it's published .

Actually, just looked it up:

... NRA revenues have climbed from $100 million in 1995, to $228 million in 2010, and up to $337 million in 2015. Less than half of the NRA’s money reportedly comes from membership dues—currently priced at one year for $40, five years for $140, or $1,500 for a lifetime. Instead, the lion’s share of NRA revenues comes from the gun industry and large corporations, which provide the group with grants, donations, and sometimes even a percentage of their firearm sales.

Another source said they made $366 million in 2016.

Then their spending:

According to OpenSecrets.org, the NRA spent $5.1 million in 2017 on lobbying politicians, up from about $1.5 million in the early ’00s. But this may not give a clear indication of the NRA’s influence. Total NRA expenditures reportedly hit $419 million in 2016, up from $312 million the prior year—including $30 million in support of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

http://money.com/money/5178193/wayne-lapierre-net-worth-nra-money-salary/

So, they have money available, but is it being spent in the right areas that have the best returns?

 

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27 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

If the NRA took 5% of the budget, $7.5M and just hammered NJ with it, just crushed the opposition with endless ad campaigns, mailers to everyone in the state

Unless they're waiting for Ginsburg to die, 10% would get the "not to be infringed" to Trump's court. 

9 minutes ago, Sniper said:

NRA revenues have climbed from $100 million in 1995, to $228 million in 2010, and up to $337 million in 2015.

Ok.  Where's it going?

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22 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Okay, so instead of 5%, dedicate 3% of the budget, and that makes $10.1M available.    That kinda money could kick a lot of asses.

Yeah.  Maybe it's the weather but I'm not feeling the love.

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8 hours ago, Cemeterys Gun Blob said:

I have always asked this.

Where is the activism from our gun owning compadres on the Left side of the aisle in NJ?

 

They don't exist.

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17 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Wayne's bank account. Plus Ollie doesn't work cheap, you know...

Well this is my point.  Are they top heavy? And do they now have too much to lose if they fought the big fight?

25 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

They don't exist.

I believe they do.  They just stay in the closet. 

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36 minutes ago, njpilot said:

Don't forget, there is a difference between a gun owner and a Second Amendment supporter. 

Sort of like there's a difference between a straight guy and a gay man.  They all have the same equipment, but, one is willing to bend over and take it up the ass, the other, not so much.

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3 hours ago, BobA said:

Well this is my point.  Are they top heavy? And do they now have too much to lose if they fought the big fight?

That's probably what it is. From my post above:

5 hours ago, Sniper said:

Instead, the lion’s share of NRA revenues comes from the gun industry and large corporations, which provide the group with grants, donations, and sometimes even a percentage of their firearm sales.

It could be part of the NRA's game. Keep everyone scared that the Democrats are coming to take their guns, so everyone continues to stock up on guns and ammo. This sends additional revenue to the manufacturers, which then funnels money back to the NRA. Kinda of closed loop....

Maybe the Dems are right, and the NRA is more in bed with the suppliers than the members????

 

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11 hours ago, Sniper said:

OK, here is the perfect example below of what I was saying. Here is just what I told you guys would happen with the Dem controlled House.

They are going after Trump, Trump's businesses, anyone associated with Trump, etc. to try and find this elusive Russian collusion (that doesn't exist). The Dems don't give a crap what they allege, even if it's true or not, they just are planning on tying up Trump with so much B.S. inquiries, that he won't have time to do anything else but play defense.

This is exactly what all the 2A organizations need to do with the anti 2A Dem politicians. Bury them in information and legal requests!!!!

Chairman Jerrold Nadler says over 60 entities and individuals close to White House are getting document requests from House Judiciary Committee Monday

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said that his committee will be issuing document requests on Monday to dozens of individuals.

“Tomorrow, we will be issuing document requests to over 60 different people and individuals from the White House to the Department of Justice, Donald Trump, Jr., Allen Weisselberg, to begin the investigations to present the case to the American people about obstruction of justice, corruption and abuse of power,Nadler said on “This Week” Sunday.

“Do you think the president obstructed justice?” asked ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos.

“Yes, I do,” Nadler said.

“We don’t have the facts yet. But we’re going to initiate proper investigations,” but not impeachment investigations.

Nadler said that there can be crimes that “there can be crimes that are impeachable offenses and impeachable offenses that are not crimes.”

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chairman-jerrold-nadler-60-entities-individuals-close-white/story?id=61431025

If there is any "abuse of power", it's all these B.S. investigations the Dems are doing. This is harassment in it's BIGGEST form!!

It's time to turn the tables and use their own tactics against them!!

 

Every one of their 60 requests will get nothing other than a “go ***** yourself”.....In a more polite way of course. 

That’s assuming any of them are even answered.

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On 3/3/2019 at 8:15 AM, Parker said:

Hopefully, the 55,000 hunters in New Jersey (last year's rough total) will wake up. Hunter numbers have dropped in the state each year for the last eight years. Soon, these Fudd's won't be an entity to blame. The group that's silent and are suspiciously absent from the polls on election days are the "1 million gun owners" in New Jersey who purportedly has amassed a registration count of 8 million handguns. And if they all did show up at the polls for the Kim/Phil race, less than the million cast their vote for Kim, while Phil garnered significantly more,  winning less towns overall but getting significantly more votes.  

BTW - 12 million+ hunters on a national level, yet there are supposedly 90 million gun owners in America. A small percentage hunt in this nation. Out of that 90 million, how many are NRA members? I see apathy and ambivalence, and it's everywhere. 

Or uninformed is likely for many.   My sister and brother in law make good examples.  Both have very nice hardware, but are not prone to surfing online forums, such as this one.  So they just don't know.  PBS rarely has any in-depth analysis of the proposed/current legislation.

I wouldn't even know about the mag limits without this forum.  It's not as if any notices arrived in the mail about it (which is a good thing in a way...no obvious registration to confirm).

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