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Only $50 For Handgun Purchase Permits

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16 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

I believe the state government always thinks they need more money, but I can't help but to suspect that this is also a tactic to make it difficult for people to financially support pro-gun/2A groups.

They’re wrong in my case. 

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1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

Then why do they tell us here....."To and From a range only"....even  if your in Pa., NJ wants to govern via transportation law.

Please show me one case where a deviation in another state resulted in a criminal charge in NJ. And to point out, that is different than illegally transporting a firearm in whichever scenario you can find (PA permit holders coming across the bridge and getting stopped, for example). As long as you follow the laws wherever you are at... there likely won’t be issues (remember there is the FOPA, which has it’s own guidelines to follow).

I carried my S&W 642-1 when I drove out to Maine. I did stop at Cabela’s near Portland in both directions (to look going up, and to take a leak coming back). How many NJ gun laws did I break? I can tell you... zero! Firearm was locked in travel lock box until I got to NH, which was the first state I legally could carry in. Same for the trip back, but in reverse. Didn’t go to the movies on the way back (once in NJ), nor out to eat. Went home... gun went back into the safe, and I went about the rest of my day.

Why do people say “to/from” no matter what? Because that is the simplest way to explain the law without some person to misunderstand, and get jammed up grabbing a bite to eat from the rest area near the Turnpike/195 exit.

And to be clear... it isn’t just to/from the range. It is to/from specific locations, and some of that depends on type of firearm (hollow points also fall into that, as well). If it is a long gun, and you have a FID... current law doesn’t make you adhere to “to/from.” Handguns... you’d need a valid NJ carry permit for a similar ability (hollow points are still a no-go... unless current L/E; retired L/E cannot carry hollow points).

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9 hours ago, remixer said:

Exactly what they want to do.

make it more expensive so you don’t want to exercise your rights.

This is about making it more expensive for the dealer and the consumer.

If 50 is in fact the final number they pass for each permit handgun sales in Nj will plummet as people will get one instead of 2 or 3. 

I think the goal is 2 parts

1. Make it more expensive to purchase and make it more difficult and expensive to obtain permits and fid cards.

2. Make it more expensive to operate as an FFL while limiting the ability to sell guns and ammunition by making it more expensive for the consumer.

While some will find a solution by not buying guns in Nj (as was recommended by the owner of this forum) it’s not a solution for handguns.  It will also open up another door for the left to make it illegal to purchase a rifle out of state and transported to NJ.  If you think the left will not continue to learn how people will get around these stupid laws think again. 

Once they are able to limit out of state pickups of firearms they will then go after transfers of firearms into Nj.

Can you imagine if they made a tax/fee with sliding scale on out of state purchases based on msrp of the firearm being transferred that the ffl must collect at time or transfer. 

 

Their end game is to limit ownership and sales of firearms to Nj residents.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree, it is all about making it more expensive as an outright ban does not and will not work. 

I am waiting to hear see about new excise taxes, ammo, etc

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2 hours ago, Screwball said:

Maybe I’m not following...

How exactly is that supposed to work? NJSP checking each vehicle that crosses the border (logistically, they don’t have enough people to do that)? Or are NJSP patrolling the PA Turnpike/gun shops/gun shows? Because last time I checked, PA law enforcement cover that state, not NJ law enforcement. I’m sure Grewal would forward any law that restricts people from buying in PA to their AG... and I’m pretty sure the PA AG will send it back stating you don’t have any jurisdiction over here. They might have similar views, but nobody wants someone else encroaching their territory.

And what happens when you move into NJ? If you were a gun owner (let’s even say you make sure everything is compliant with NJ law), does bringing legally owned firearms into your new home make you a felon?

If the question was related specifically to me (“then what?”), they can look in my A&D book. I wasn’t a FFL-03 when I went through the background investigation for the NJSP... so all my pistols had a permit number associated with it when they asked. Doesn’t change the fact that state transportation laws still need to be followed.

I guess I don’t see how a legally purchased firearm will result in being at the hands of the NJ Courts.

The way it worked with fireworks is cops would sit in parking lot and follow out of state plates back to jersey or ny. 

For guns.... well Bloomberg already pressured one gun store here in PA to put up cameras iirc because it is in tourist town with lots of nyc people. 

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3 hours ago, Screwball said:

They do it with handguns because Federally... non-licensees must acquire them in state; either private sale (which is now restricted) or via FFL. No law on NJ’s books says I’m breaking a law by picking up a C&R handgun in PA, even with their permits stating that they are only good in NJ. Long guns, as long as gone through an out of state FFL (and NJ legal)... there is no way NJ law can override Federal or PA law, outside of NJ. That’s like me saying ME allows recreational use of weed... so that law trumps NJ and Federal law here (currently, both view it as illegal). It is only applicable within ME.

I agree that Murphy and Grewal don’t give a damn about anyone’s rights... but I really feel that NJ courts are going to be a little questionable with such blatantly Unconstitutional legislation (especially ones dictating what someone can legally do in another state). Confirming laws that move up the line and ultimately are found Unconstitutional just shows the lower courts are a joke/prejudice. It might not be a care to most judges with “acceptable” anti-gun legislation (there is no landmark case that says the 2nd Amendment covers guns across the board), but I’m sure many don’t want their names dragged through the mud afterwards with how bad that would look.

That’s like the bump stock BS, and how top politicians who are anti-gun (Feinstein) said it isn’t the way to do it. Sure part has to do with it being Trump, but a good deal is that it is so wrongly accomplished that it likely will have negative repercussions for the push. Feinstein might be a poor excuse for a US Senator, but she isn’t that stupid to do something going that far against current law/procedure.

If the Supreme Court gets another conservative... then raises the chances of another landmark case being decided on in our favor. Obviously, none of us can see into the future... so we won’t know exactly where any of this will lead. But even steps of “registration” with long guns might be their “Bridge Too Far.” Personally, I think the arrogance that Murphy/Grewal have might actually be NJ gun owners best weapon for a quicker solution. In short, while rights being violated isn’t a good thing, the situation that brews will allow a higher chance of positive change.

I think your misssing my point. I’m on a cell I’ll come back later and post to explain 

I’ll just leave this here.

can NJ require every gun purchased anywhere in the us that is brought into Nj Be registered.  For get how would they enforce it, that does not matter. Can they deem any non NJ registered gun illegal to own in NJ only. Not out of the state . No legal issue for out of state dealer. I’m taking strictly about the Nj resident bringing it back to Nj and when he is in NJ.  

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12 minutes ago, Maksim said:

The way it worked with fireworks is cops would sit in parking lot and follow out of state plates back to jersey or ny. 

For guns.... well Bloomberg already pressured one gun store here in PA to put up cameras iirc because it is in tourist town with lots of nyc people. 

Depends on what the final legislation will end up saying, as I still can’t see that overreach working out... but from what I’ve heard from L/E outside of NJ... most aren’t fans of NJ L/E.

Would be interesting to see where those chips fall.

And Steve... roger that. I’m on my cell as well, running over to Deal. Will respond after I read your follow up. Can’t find the thumbs up emoji... but imagine it.

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4 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Depends on what the final legislation will end up saying, as I still can’t see that overreach working out... but from what I’ve heard from L/E outside of NJ... most aren’t fans of NJ L/E.

Would be interesting to see where those chips fall.

And Steve... roger that. I’m on my cell as well, running over to Deal. Will respond after I read your follow up. Can’t find the thumbs up emoji... but imagine it.

I don’t think it would hold up in court if we actually were heard 

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20 hours ago, Maksim said:

No.

Costs are set through legislation so I believe they would have to pass that first.  Apparently he tried it last year and it failed?

I do think if we have everyone try and reach out and talk about how it is a burden and too expensive,  it will not pass. But if it does, I am sure NRA, GOA and SAF would be all over this.

Deminksy & Doyle were talking about the radio today.  The wild part that everyone forgets is that most of these "fees" are unconstitutional on their face.  When they were $2 here and $5 there, I don't think many people (outside of a few here) cared.  I'd love to see SCOTUS strike down the entire evil schedule of fees.

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56 minutes ago, remixer said:

I don’t think it would hold up in court if we actually were heard 

Everyone needs to get off the "it will be thrown out in court" delusion. Any new gun law certainly won't be reversed in the district courts. The odds of one reaching the S.C. is an extremely slim chance. Even if it did, it would take YEARS... Everyone needs to wake up and understand the odds of a conservative S.C. coming to our rescue is a pipe dream.

These potentially new laws need to be snuffed out BEFORE they are voted on and signed into law by Murphy. Once Murphy signs them, you're done.

Wake up folks!

 

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24 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Deminksy & Doyle were talking about the radio today.  The wild part that everyone forgets is that most of these "fees" are unconstitutional on their face.  When they were $2 here and $5 there, I don't think many people (outside of a few here) cared.  I'd love to see SCOTUS strike down the entire evil schedule of fees.

Again: We need a "not to be infringed" umbrella decision. 

3 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Everyone needs to get off the "it will be thrown out in court" delusion. Any new gun law certainly won't be reversed in the district courts. The odds of one reaching the S.C. is an extremely slim chance. Even if it did, it would take YEARS... Everyone needs to wake up and understand the odds of a conservative S.C. coming to our rescue is a pipe dream.

These potentially new laws need to be snuffed out BEFORE they are voted on and signed into law by Murphy. Once Murphy signs them, you're done.

Wake up folks!

 

Not so much a wake up thing as it needs to be challenged to get before a court.  And who can do that?

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7 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Everyone needs to get off the "it will be thrown out in court" delusion. Any new gun law certainly won't be reversed in the district courts. The odds of one reaching the S.C. is an extremely slim chance. Even if it did, it would take YEARS... Everyone needs to wake up and understand the odds of a conservative S.C. coming to our rescue is a pipe dream.

These potentially new laws need to be snuffed out BEFORE they are voted on and signed into law by Murphy. Once Murphy signs them, you're done.

Wake up folks!

 

The reality is, they are entitled to pass any law.  It's only until it's challenged does it get pointed out to be wrong.  But financially who can do it?  I would need it in writing that I would have the backing.  I can't wipe out my retirement funds proving The Beav is an A-hole.   

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1 hour ago, Heronimo42 said:

Not at all.  I'm wondering if this is less than or more than other states with similar requirements.  

Governor Anal Opening’s self proclaimed goal is to make us the most regulated gun law state in the nation. You may find close but I doubt more in this case. 

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3 hours ago, BobA said:

The reality is, they are entitled to pass any law.  It's only until it's challenged does it get pointed out to be wrong.  But financially who can do it?  I would need it in writing that I would have the backing.  I can't wipe out my retirement funds proving The Beav is an A-hole.   

That was my whole point the other day. There is no jeopardy for them to pass any B.S. Bill or law. There's no repercussions to them. Once it gets voted/signed into law, then it becomes a MAJOR financial and legal battle to overturn.

We need to hit them BEFORE it gets to the voting stage. If these politician know there will be repercussions for passing B.S. bills, maybe they'll think twice before bringing up the NEXT B.S. Bill for a vote. If the Black Panthers can use voter intimidation at the polls, how do we use reverse voter intimidation to stop these idiots from even proposing the next B.S. Bill?

 

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1 hour ago, Sniper said:

That was my whole point the other day. There is no jeopardy for them to pass any B.S. Bill or law. There's no repercussions to them. Once it gets voted/signed into law, then it becomes a MAJOR financial and legal battle to overturn.

We need to hit them BEFORE it gets to the voting stage. If these politician know there will be repercussions for passing B.S. bills, maybe they'll think twice before bringing up the NEXT B.S. Bill for a vote. If the Black Panthers can use voter intimidation at the polls, how do we use reverse voter intimidation to stop these idiots from even proposing the next B.S. Bill?

 

Tell me how to change the minds of our legislators? Write letters, email or call them? Protest in person? It never worked in the past, what makes you think it will work now?

SCOTUS IS our only hope.......FACE IT!

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Tell me how to change the minds of our legislators? Write letters, email or call them? Protest in person? It never worked in the past, what makes you think it will work now?

It won't and hasn't worked in the past. The Definition of Insanity, doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

6 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

SCOTUS IS our only hope.......FACE IT!

Don't bet your house. The SCOTUS hadn't argued a 2A case for like a decade. They finally took one recently. They punted on all other hot potato opportunities the past decade.

The reality is, the SCOTUS is asked to hear/argue like 7000 - 8000 cases a year, but only takes on 70 -80 in all areas. What's the chance they will step into the hornets nest and take on a partisan issue like 2A, considering there all types of fractured, unconstitutional 2A laws floating around the country now in different states (NY, CA, NJ, WA, OR, etc.)?

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2 hours ago, Sniper said:

That was my whole point the other day. There is no jeopardy for them to pass any B.S. Bill or law. There's no repercussions to them. Once it gets voted/signed into law, then it becomes a MAJOR financial and legal battle to overturn.

We need to hit them BEFORE it gets to the voting stage. If these politician know there will be repercussions for passing B.S. bills, maybe they'll think twice before bringing up the NEXT B.S. Bill for a vote. If the Black Panthers can use voter intimidation at the polls, how do we use reverse voter intimidation to stop these idiots from even proposing the next B.S. Bill?

 

You are completely right that they need to be challenged beforehand... unfortunately it was prove time and time and time again... the people who are writing the laws DO NOT CARE!

Just look at OGAM and how many people showed up, and they still passed it.

Realistically I think the only way they wont is if we start contributing to their campaign and paying them NOT to take up the issues...

But keep in mind, Trenton is generally controlled by the ghettos of NJ.

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5 minutes ago, Maksim said:

You are completely right that they need to be challenged beforehand... unfortunately it was prove time and time and time again... the people who are writing the laws DO NOT CARE!

Just look at OGAM and how many people showed up, and they still passed it.

Realistically I think the only way they wont is if we start contributing to their campaign and paying them NOT to take up the issues...

But keep in mind, Trenton is generally controlled by the ghettos of NJ.

I will keep my faith in SCOTUS rather than bribery! RBJ will soon be replaced! You just have to believe to make it so!:)

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12 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I will keep my faith in SCOTUS rather than bribery! RBJ will soon be replaced! You just have to believe to make it so!:)

We can only hope that SCOTUS takes on more 2A cases, and having a leaning conservative bench, hopefully will help. But like I mentioned above, they are asked to hear thousands of cases each year, but only take on dozens. How does one get them to agree to a 2A case with all the other cases in all areas floating around. It just sounds like a long shot to put all your chips on SCOTUS (not to mention the time frame for it to finally get there) we could all be dead by then.

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12 hours ago, Sniper said:

Everyone needs to get off the "it will be thrown out in court" delusion. Any new gun law certainly won't be reversed in the district courts. The odds of one reaching the S.C. is an extremely slim chance. Even if it did, it would take YEARS... Everyone needs to wake up and understand the odds of a conservative S.C. coming to our rescue is a pipe dream.

These potentially new laws need to be snuffed out BEFORE they are voted on and signed into law by Murphy. Once Murphy signs them, you're done.

Wake up folks!

 

100% agree... Needs to be stop prior to becoming law but the problem in states like NJ and NY for example... the cities control the state and in the end the state government cares not what we think or want. Its all about getting national support from the party leaders and keeping those constituents happy.  Our best bet would be to target local senators. Maybe even reach out to sweeny. The power resides in the senate not the governor's mansion. Sweeny is key. Get him onboard to to understand this will do nothing for the budget but will hurt people locally in there pockets including his fudd's

 

9 hours ago, Sniper said:

That was my whole point the other day. There is no jeopardy for them to pass any B.S. Bill or law. There's no repercussions to them. Once it gets voted/signed into law, then it becomes a MAJOR financial and legal battle to overturn.

We need to hit them BEFORE it gets to the voting stage. If these politician know there will be repercussions for passing B.S. bills, maybe they'll think twice before bringing up the NEXT B.S. Bill for a vote. If the Black Panthers can use voter intimidation at the polls, how do we use reverse voter intimidation to stop these idiots from even proposing the next B.S. Bill?

 

Thats what i was trying to say when i brought up the hypothetical registration.  They CAN propose and Pass it... It would only then be overturned by the courts... I have little faith in courts...  I have less faith in the SCOTUS as they seem to steel clear of most gun cases unless its completely without question unconstitutional. I also think roberts is NOT our friend. regardless of his side in previous cases the guys a flip flopper now.. i dont think he wants to do anything that would cause uproar. Seems since Bush V Gore he became center left or just refuses to hear cases that are major... Daca is an example... How can they not hear that...  Obama Made an EO Trump reversed an EO and the lower courts said Obama can write it but Trump cant reverse it... Its very clear that immigration is in the hands of the congress not the president.... its not even debatable but the SCOTUS  will not hear it... this tells me something.

 

7 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Tell me how to change the minds of our legislators? Write letters, email or call them? Protest in person? It never worked in the past, what makes you think it will work now?

SCOTUS IS our only hope.......FACE IT!

Good question....  I think it might come down to primarys..... We might have to choose who runs where... Even if that means registering as a democrat for the primaries. Pick the most unelectable and give them a run for their money.  Works for the Dems.

6 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I will keep my faith in SCOTUS rather than bribery! RBJ will soon be replaced! You just have to believe to make it so!:)

I have faith that they will rule in our favor.... I have little faith they will take the case. 

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

We can only hope that SCOTUS takes on more 2A cases, and having a leaning conservative bench, hopefully will help. But like I mentioned above, they are asked to hear thousands of cases each year, but only take on dozens. How does one get them to agree to a 2A case with all the other cases in all areas floating around. It just sounds like a long shot to put all your chips on SCOTUS (not to mention the time frame for it to finally get there) we could all be dead by then.

Scotus is not the answer....   I'm not sure why they dont take NJ cases.... Baffles me...
Can it be that roberts would side with the liberals?  He does seem to not be a fan of the president... Possible he would not want to give a win to the right as a slap for electing trump? Who knows.

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It's interesting that Gov Gopher cites the revenue these fees will generate. The silver lining is that once the lib-controlled government starts sucking on the teat of new revenue stream, they're likely to want to preserve it - not cut it off.

But libs are bad at math (and logic) and never understand the concept of unintended consequences. Look at Philly when they jacked up the parking fines expecting twice the revenue (assuming the same number of violations). Instead, people changed their behavior and violations dropped and revenue actually decreased with the higher fines. Idiots.

I think we'll see that most gun enthusiasts will suck it up and pay the additional fees and some will slow down or stop buying. The online ammo sales ban is gonna suck, though. Time to stock up the "hoard".

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15 hours ago, remixer said:

can NJ require every gun purchased anywhere in the us that is brought into Nj Be registered.  

Yes, nj can legally do this, california has this law for years and it has not been overturned.  The law applies to existing and also new residents. 

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3 minutes ago, SW9racer said:

Yes, nj can legally do this, california has this law for years and it has not been overturned.  The law applies to existing and also new residents. 

Of course that does not affect the out of state seller or Federal laws. but it makes your gun illegal in NJ.

 

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