Jump to content
Armvel

Reference question/problem rant :-)

Recommended Posts

So the references part of the application is turning out to be more dicey than anticipated. I married into the typical liberal family and my side of the family is about the same or I just don't get along with them. My circle of friends are reputable and I am a professional, project engineer and mechanical engineer.  However, I am afraid of a backlash if I use any of them as references if they know is for the purpose of buying a gun.  So my plan is to convince two of them to do me the favor but before I get into an argument with good friends over this issue, do anyone has any advice or are in a similar situation? What kind of questions do the references have to answer? 

One last thing. Are there any greet and meet with people in this forum? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The questions they have to answer for a firearms ID card or for a permit to purchase a handgun are the same questions that you have to answer on your part of the application.  Are you a member of a terrorist organization, are you a member of a group intending to overthrow the state or federal government, ever been convicted of a crime, etc... those questions.  I've haven't done the new online application where they email the questionnaire to your references, but I don't think the email tells them that the questions are related to the firearms process.  My town does not have a police department so I go to the local State Police Barracks and they always have me fill out the papers in ink and hand carry the questionnaires to my references then turned in all in when I got everyone to fill it out.  It sounds like some cities used to mail the forms to your references and had to wait for them to be mailed back.  The new online process emails them the questionnaire so its faster. 

As far as advice to you, my only advice would be to get better friends or move to a free state that recognizes and honors your constitutional rights.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep an eye out in the events section for the next shotgun shoot and start attending those. Make some friends with other gun owners and soon enough you will have plenty of people to use as a reference. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! Basically I wanted to see if the questions alluded to the gun purchase, a supposed to a standard background check as if applying for a job. I have had those for security clearance. 

I just need to confirm if that's still the case for the online version. 

Yes, I will keep a look out for gathering. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Zeke said:

My friends that I use as references are gun owners or pro gun. And they respond ASAP. 

Have you ever discussed firearms with your friends?

Discussed firearms, politics, religion, foreign policies, sometime into late night, lol.  But like I said in my first post, I'll will try to see who is more receptive and let the chips fall where they may.  After all, what are friends for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Armvel said:

So the references part of the application is turning out to be more dicey than anticipated. I married into the typical liberal family and my side of the family is about the same or I just don't get along with them. My circle of friends are reputable and I am a professional, project engineer and mechanical engineer.  However, I am afraid of a backlash if I use any of them as references if they know is for the purpose of buying a gun.  So my plan is to convince two of them to do me the favor but before I get into an argument with good friends over this issue, do anyone has any advice or are in a similar situation? What kind of questions do the references have to answer? 

One last thing. Are there any greet and meet with people in this forum? 

You need new friends.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Armvel said:

  However, I am afraid of a backlash if I use any of them as references if they know is for the purpose of buying a gun. 

So, then the references part is working as intended.

The whole NJ process is designed to discourage gun ownership.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, one of my two references is extremely liberal. She had no problem signing off on it. Just be straight up. "Hey, I want to get into target shooting as a sport. Could you sign off as a reference so I can get my equipment?" I would 100% expect all of my liberal friends to even be a reference if I asked. You might be surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Greenday said:

Eh, one of my two references is extremely liberal. She had no problem signing off on it. Just be straight up. "Hey, I want to get into target shooting as a sport. Could you sign off as a reference so I can get my equipment?"

Except that would be a lie for most people (but apparently lying isn't an issue for you). Many people buy firearms for home defense and they go to the range to practice.

What would these "friends" of yours say if you told them you wanted a gun to shoot bad guys in your house?

1 minute ago, Sniper said:

Or, if you said you wanted guns so you could go off in the woods and shoot animals?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chose my references based on the application criteria of individuals who can speak to my character and have known me well beyond the time periods required. I told them I was seeking to purchase firearms and needed to supply references. They were more than happy to do so and neither of my references owns firearms.  

Those are the types of references you want  

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe feel out some of your friends or coworkers who you aren't certain about which side of the fence they are on.  You'd be surprised how many people are gun owners who don't openly share.that information.

Maybe broach the topic by saying you are thinking about going to a gun range or going skeet shooting when they ask "What you doing this weekend."  Ask them if they've ever been or could recommend a place.  Ask them if they maybe want to come along.  You'll get some immediate feedback from them and can gauge how to proceed from there.

Good luck.  Look forward to meeting you at one of the get togethers.

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the last question on the reference form asks if that person feels you have the ability to handle/possess a firearm, so the person will have a pretty good idea what it's for. If it were me, I'd be flat out honest and tell them what it's for, keep asking until you find the ones that would have no problem doing so. Good luck and be safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 1:59 PM, Zeke said:

My friends that I use as references are gun owners or pro gun. And they respond ASAP. 

Have you ever discussed firearms with your friends?

 

On 3/16/2019 at 1:21 PM, fishnut said:

Keep an eye out in the events section for the next shotgun shoot and start attending those. Make some friends with other gun owners and soon enough you will have plenty of people to use as a reference. 

+1000.  Generally, the last few times I used reference forms for pistol permits I used forum member friends.  We all know how important it is and generally get them in QUICK!.

Make friends with gun owners, simple as that.

10 hours ago, Sniper said:

Except that would be a lie for most people (but apparently lying isn't an issue for you). Many people buy firearms for home defense and they go to the range to practice.

What would these "friends" of yours say if you told them you wanted a gun to shoot bad guys in your house?

Or, if you said you wanted guns so you could go off in the woods and shoot animals?

Let's stop the personal attacks, seriously.  Do you wake up every day to see how @Greenday is going to piss you off? He did nothing wrong in this thread.  

I do agree that many buy for home defense, but to be 100% up front, when I bought my first guns, it was really for target practice and shooting sports.  That is how it is for most people buying a gun.  It is not to defend the home... but generally it is folks going to the range, renting, loving it, and then wanting to buy a gun.

I honestly don't think most people buying their first gun are thinking about home defense.  Heck, they may think it.. but they would not be using it in that case. 

 

4 minutes ago, bennj said:

I believe the last question on the reference form asks if that person feels you have the ability to handle/possess a firearm, so the person will have a pretty good idea what it's for. If it were me, I'd be flat out honest and tell them what it's for, keep asking until you find the ones that would have no problem doing so. Good luck and be safe.

Varies by township.

On the ones my town sent in, it asks basic info about health, metal issues, drinking, drugs, etc.

On a few others I got there were more questions about moral character, safe enough to use a gun, violence, etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep Maks, just checked a copy of one of my past reference forms and it's issued by my township pd. Eventhough one would think it would be consistent across the state, we've seen that not to be the case with the application process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 6:20 PM, diamondd817 said:

So, then the references part is working as intended.

The whole NJ process is designed to discourage gun ownership.

I’m surprised Murphy didn’t raise the references to 50.. This one somehow slipped by his regime.. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I honestly don't think most people buying their first gun are thinking about home defense.  Heck, they may think it.. but they would not be using it in that case. 

From the NYT (and you know how they hate guns):

...." The survey indicates that a growing number of gun owners are like Ms. Alcazar — they cite personal safety as a major incentive for owning a gun. In 1994, 46 percent of respondents chose protection as the primary reason to own a gun. Two decades later, 63 percent of respondents made that selection. (In the first survey, participants could select just one reason for ownership. In the second, they could choose several.)

Applications for concealed-carry permits have hit records in some places, giving rise to a group of people who consider themselves part of a concealed-carry lifestyle. Ms. Alcazar, who bought a gun in 2013 after an armed man took five girls hostage at her daughter’s middle school, counts herself among them. "

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/12/us/handguns-gun-ownership-survey.html

gun ownership.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 12:36 PM, Armvel said:

So the references part of the application is turning out to be more dicey than anticipated. I married into the typical liberal family and my side of the family is about the same or I just don't get along with them. My circle of friends are reputable and I am a professional, project engineer and mechanical engineer.  However, I am afraid of a backlash if I use any of them as references if they know is for the purpose of buying a gun.  So my plan is to convince two of them to do me the favor but before I get into an argument with good friends over this issue, do anyone has any advice or are in a similar situation? What kind of questions do the references have to answer? 

One last thing. Are there any greet and meet with people in this forum? 

You might be shocked to know friends or Co workers might be gun owners and are also afraid to say it.

I would maybe throw some stuff out at the water cooler and see the reply.  IE...  A friend invited me to his hunting cabin for the weekend,  Anyone of you guys ever hunt? Etc etc.. Subtle kinda things.... You might have friends you never knew existed :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 1:14 PM, Regular Guy said:

The questions they have to answer for a firearms ID card or for a permit to purchase a handgun are the same questions that you have to answer on your part of the application.  Are you a member of a terrorist organization, are you a member of a group intending to overthrow the state or federal government, ever been convicted of a crime, etc... those questions.  I've haven't done the new online application where they email the questionnaire to your references, but I don't think the email tells them that the questions are related to the firearms process.  My town does not have a police department so I go to the local State Police Barracks and they always have me fill out the papers in ink and hand carry the questionnaires to my references then turned in all in when I got everyone to fill it out.  It sounds like some cities used to mail the forms to your references and had to wait for them to be mailed back.  The new online process emails them the questionnaire so its faster. 

As far as advice to you, my only advice would be to get better friends or move to a free state that recognizes and honors your constitutional rights.    

Maybe I'm parsing this wrong, but in multiple decently sized municipalities, all my reference forms looked the same, and did not look remotely like the application questions. 

They were all basically the following:

What is your relation to XXXXX? 

How long have you known XXXXX?

Do you know of any reason XXXX may be disqualified form owning a firearm or be otherwise unfit to own firearms. 

Do you attest the above answers are honest and true etc? (about a 60% chance this is just verbiage integrated into the sign here part, and not a question with a field to put an answer)

sign here...

I'm curious what the new online process mails. don't have the spare cash to buy something just to find out right now though. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Maybe I'm parsing this wrong, but in multiple decently sized municipalities, all my reference forms looked the same, and did not look remotely like the application questions. 

They were all basically the following:

What is your relation to XXXXX? 

How long have you known XXXXX?

Do you know of any reason XXXX may be disqualified form owning a firearm or be otherwise unfit to own firearms. 

Do you attest the above answers are honest and true etc? (about a 60% chance this is just verbiage integrated into the sign here part, and not a question with a field to put an answer)

sign here...

I'm curious what the new online process mails. don't have the spare cash to buy something just to find out right now though. 

 

All had those but I also saw a few that asked whether to my knowledge applicant had drug or drinking issues and one or another about mental health. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

I'm curious what the new online process mails. don't have the spare cash to buy something just to find out right now though. 

My two references said it's exactly the same as the paper form, just filled out online instead of mailed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, raz-0 said:

Maybe I'm parsing this wrong, but in multiple decently sized municipalities, all my reference forms looked the same, and did not look remotely like the application questions. 

They were all basically the following:

What is your relation to XXXXX? 

How long have you known XXXXX?

Do you know of any reason XXXX may be disqualified form owning a firearm or be otherwise unfit to own firearms. 

Do you attest the above answers are honest and true etc? (about a 60% chance this is just verbiage integrated into the sign here part, and not a question with a field to put an answer)

sign here...

I'm curious what the new online process mails. don't have the spare cash to buy something just to find out right now though. 

 

The forms I get to give to my references have questions more like what Maksim said.  Asks about drugs and/or alcohol dependency, whether they know if I was ever convicted of a felony or violent crime, whether I am a member of a group whose goal is the overthrow the government.  Same general topics that you have to answer about yourself.  I live in a rural area with no local police so I get the forms directly from the state police barracks.  Not sure if there are different of the form given out by municipalities or what.  Either way, it's all a 2A infringement.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already talked with a few of my friends and they seemed receptive so I'll let you guys know how it goes with the online application process.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep an eye on upcoming event so I can get to meet some of you. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...