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Students Support Socialism... But Not With Their GPA

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14 hours ago, Greenday said:

We can tax the wealthy higher than we do now by a fair amount and they will still be drastically richer than the rest of us while there is a lesser burden on the middle and lower class.

Really? So you want to STEAL money from people who earned it and give it to other people for FREE, who DON'T want to work for it?

Really?

How Communist of you.

14 hours ago, Greenday said:

It's what America did in years past when the middle class was flourishing. 

Really?

When in the past was this exactly in America, when the fruits of someone's hard work (evil rich person) was stolen from them, and GIVEN to the middle class?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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When the tax brackets went up to 90%, virtually nobody paid it.  The start of the bracket was so high that many people never reached it and the ones that did were rarely getting there from a regular "job."  The ultra wealthy (which is who this is supposed to hit) don't make that money in the form of "ordinary income."  It's from the businesses they own or investments.  And raising taxes on the things that matter most to the ultra wealthy (investments) also raises taxes on retirement income/investments.

Not to mention we still shouldn't be penalizing others due to their success or the rewards they receive from risk they take.   It's absurd that some think it's right to do so.  

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7 hours ago, Sniper said:

Really? So you want to STEAL money from people who earned it and give it to other people for FREE, who DON'T want to work for it?

Really?

How Communist of you.

Really?

When in the past was this exactly in America, when the fruits of someone's hard work (evil rich person) was stolen from them, and GIVEN to the middle class?

Inquiring minds want to know.

No, I want people who earn way more than everyone else to pay a little more in taxes. I'm not going to lose any sleep if some person can no longer afford a second private jet if it means better public schools, better roads, etc. If you want to benefit from society, you have to at least put a fair share into it.

And no where have I ever said anyone should be given something free and not have to work for it. Stop making stuff up as per usual. The people who need help the most are the ones working multiple jobs just to try to keep a roof over their heads. Not the ones sitting on their asses all day benefiting from what they "earned" by being born from rich parents.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/16/17215874/tax-brackets-100-years-chart

There you go, history of tax brackets made easy. Interesting how as tax brackets declined for the filthy rich, the growth of the middle class stopped.

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35 minutes ago, Greenday said:

 

Actually, the decline of the middle class is much more correlated to government spending and bloat. 

45% of the American public doesn't pay taxes

"And no where have I ever said anyone should be given something free and not have to work for it."

So you think this is wrong then?

 

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4 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

 

Actually, the decline of the middle class is much more correlated to government spending and bloat. 

45% of the American public doesn't pay taxes

"And no where have I ever said anyone should be given something free and not have to work for it."

So you think this is wrong then?

 

I think there are tons of people working 2-3 jobs just to make the bare minimum to survive that aren't getting the help they need to move up in life while there are people buying their own islands and third yachts.

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16 hours ago, Greenday said:

I think there are tons of people working 2-3 jobs just to make the bare minimum to survive that aren't getting the help they need to move up in life while there are people buying their own islands and third yachts.

Exactly!  Such as the liberal boards of governors that run all of the colleges and universities. The very people teaching you about socialism have hiked up the tuition prices to put everyone else in debt and servitude for mediocre degrees, while they are chilling on their mega yachts and mcmansions.  They can easily cut prices, provide grants, and still have enough left over for their fortunes. You have been setup from the start. 

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43 minutes ago, SW9racer said:

Exactly!  Such as the liberal boards of governors that run all of the colleges and universities. The very people teaching you about socialism have hiked up the tuition prices to put everyone else in debt and servitude for mediocre degrees, while they are chilling on their mega yachts and mcmansions.  They can easily cut prices, provide grants, and still have enough left over for their fortunes. You have been setup from the start. 

That's an excellent point.  How can liberals reconcile the cost of education, which is set by a group of liberal professors, and the debt it leaves students in?  If they were really for reduced education costs, why wouldn't they reduce the cost of higher education and just control attendance through the standard application process?  

I fully support many kids not going to college to obtain useless degrees and instead learning a trade.  If done en masse it would reduce the cost of education because demand would be lower.

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22 hours ago, Greenday said:

No, I want people who earn way more than everyone else to pay a little more in taxes.

And no where have I ever said anyone should be given something free and not have to work for it. 

They already pay WAY more than everyone else .....and btw way......get NOTHING more in return.   What planet have you been living on.  

And re your second comment above..... if someone gets $15 an hour do work in some job....and you say....they ‘deserve’ more....despite the business model indicating thats true.....then you are asking that they get something for free and not have to work for it.

How about this......If you work in Walmart making $15 and hour.... work hard and become a department manager for $20 an hour..which is about $41k a year plus your very decent benefits.  Then continue to work hard and learn that job until you can apply for an assistant manager job and make about $55k a year.  

See where this is going?

If you continue to do your job, learn and be responsible, apply to be a co-manager of a Walmart and make $85k to $100k a year...plus those nice benefits.

About 3 to 5 years will have passed.  Ina couple more years you can apply to be a store manager and $150k to $250k.   All without having earned a 4 year degree.  But by the way....they have a tuition program if you decided you wanted to pursue that.

Fantasy you say?  Nope. This is fact.  You, or anyone else in this forum can go apply there today and get a job in a week. Some might start as that asst mgr. some might not have the experience.  They no longer do drug tests.  So if you like weed....it doesn’t matter.  Not a super genius?  These jobs require dedication and responsibility.  Not brilliance or a STEM degree.

This is how the free world works.  Your vision of it is a crutch for the lazy.

Now....if you are disabled...sick, mentally ill..... thats different.  We already have a system to help those people. I know of couple of thee people.  One goes to Disney every year. Has had free cosmetic surgery.  Twice......  Won’t work more than 15 hours a week and her kid is in college in Florida. In this case however, she is abusing the system. She needs to be kicked off it.  Ironically her ACTUAL disabled older sister who lives in a wheel chair is a professor at Rutgers and is grateful for the things she is able to do.

 

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4 hours ago, Kevin125 said:

They already pay WAY more than everyone else .....and btw way......get NOTHING more in return.  

This is my biggest issue with the Greendays of the world. The rich already pay tens of thousands MORE for the same services Greenday receives, but in their Socialist world, they still think those evil rich people should pay even more. These Socialists will never look at a tax chart to see the actual numbers, it would destroy their narrative.

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13 hours ago, Kevin125 said:

They already pay WAY more than everyone else .....and btw way......get NOTHING more in return.   What planet have you been living on.  

And re your second comment above..... if someone gets $15 an hour do work in some job....and you say....they ‘deserve’ more....despite the business model indicating thats true.....then you are asking that they get something for free and not have to work for it.

How about this......If you work in Walmart making $15 and hour.... work hard and become a department manager for $20 an hour..which is about $41k a year plus your very decent benefits.  Then continue to work hard and learn that job until you can apply for an assistant manager job and make about $55k a year.  

See where this is going?

If you continue to do your job, learn and be responsible, apply to be a co-manager of a Walmart and make $85k to $100k a year...plus those nice benefits.

About 3 to 5 years will have passed.  Ina couple more years you can apply to be a store manager and $150k to $250k.   All without having earned a 4 year degree.  But by the way....they have a tuition program if you decided you wanted to pursue that.

Fantasy you say?  Nope. This is fact.  You, or anyone else in this forum can go apply there today and get a job in a week. Some might start as that asst mgr. some might not have the experience.  They no longer do drug tests.  So if you like weed....it doesn’t matter.  Not a super genius?  These jobs require dedication and responsibility.  Not brilliance or a STEM degree.

This is how the free world works.  Your vision of it is a crutch for the lazy.

Now....if you are disabled...sick, mentally ill..... thats different.  We already have a system to help those people. I know of couple of thee people.  One goes to Disney every year. Has had free cosmetic surgery.  Twice......  Won’t work more than 15 hours a week and her kid is in college in Florida. In this case however, she is abusing the system. She needs to be kicked off it.  Ironically her ACTUAL disabled older sister who lives in a wheel chair is a professor at Rutgers and is grateful for the things she is able to do.

They don't NEED anything more in return. And they are still getting more by paying more. Better roads, better schools, better healthcare, etc. In the end, someone is getting shafted. But if I have to choose between someone getting their third Ferrari or multiple people having to choose between feeding themselves or their kids, I'm going to say let's go ahead and sacrifice buying that Ferrari. Their quality of life won't be drastically affected by having one less supercar. 

But let's go ahead and look at your Walmart example. $15/hr sure sounds like a lot of money. That's a whopping $31,200/yr. And assuming you'll be given enough hours to qualify for benefits (which I'm sure aren't high quality), that's a budget of $2,400 a month. And for argument's sake, let's pick Camden County since that's the cheapest county to live in for New Jersey:

Average cost of a studio: $789/month

Food: $273/month

Transportation: $773/month

Health Care: $346/month (I highly doubt Walmart is giving their lower level employees good options with $0 payments per month)

Other necessities: $429/month (Already over budget at this point).

Taxes: $482/month

Total: $3,091/month or $37,098/year.

https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/

So basically you'll never be able to afford your own piece of property. Saving up to get a vehicle is out. Pray to God you never get sick. Never have fun that costs money. And you still come out negative at the end of the year by thousands of dollars. So now you have to get a second job JUST to afford the bare minimum in life. That's bullshit. A full-time job should cover necessary life expenses. And Walmart's benefits are mediocre at best. From cashier to co-manager in 3-5 years? Stop. That is completely unrealistic. Then store manager in 5-7 years? What planet do you live on where you go from the bottom to the top in 5-7 years? If this was a viable plan, everyone would be doing it. Shit, in 7 years max I'll be a store manager making $150-250k/yr? That's better career advancement than most jobs in the US. Did you read about this happening to like one person and assume this would apply to thousands of employees every year? Your plan that will never come true for most people even if they are good employees who work their asses off would just continue to create a larger divide between the rich and people who have jack shit.

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What's these neccesities that cost almost 500 a month? 

Cable TV? Jordans? iPhone?

And these people don't pay taxes... 

You live in a bubble where you think hard work pays off... You could be the greatest Walmart emoloyee, at the end of the day, you still stock shelves... This is mostly a dead end job for most people. It's about skilled labor and productivity.. something that apparently goes right over your head.

Now the reality is, the Walmart emoloyee lives a rather wealthy life in comparison to what it means to be truly poor is this world.

The person you just described has it 100 times better than my father and his poor family did not 60 years ago and nothing stopped him from becoming wealthy.

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I love the need argument. I really do. It shows the shortsightedness to justify taken people's labor based on what their need is. Profit would be outlawed. No need right? No investments. The stock market would collapse.  Once we go down the need road. There is nothing that is off limits. Sounds like such a free society. What if we canibalize your entire networth and possessions with a finetooth comb based on some government officials assessment of your need. Your eutopia sounds lovely. Very well thought out. I can't imagine a more free world.

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40 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

What's these neccesities that cost almost 500 a month? 

Cable TV? Jordans? iPhone?

And these people don't pay taxes... 

You live in a bubble where you think hard work pays off... You could be the greatest Walmart emoloyee, at the end of the day, you still stock shelves... This is mostly a dead end job for most people. This about skilled labor and productivity.. something that apparently goes right over your head.

Now the reality is, the Walmart emoloyee lives a rather wealthy life in comparison to what it means to be truly poor is this world.

The person you just described has it 100 times better than my father and his poor family did not 60 years ago and nothing stopped him from becoming wealthy.

Let's say it is the most basic job. Well the most basic income should support a basic living.

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15 minutes ago, Greenday said:

 

Basics: Shelter, food, clothing....

If you're worried about feeding your kids, you should have budgeted for one before having it. I'm not sure what someone buying their third Ferrari has anything to do with this. Maybe these people should have thought about that before having their third child.

The fact is, you contradict yourself.... you're talking about stealing a mans Ferrari so you can give money to people who didnt earn it, so they can live a lifestyle beyond basic. 

This is the same reasoning a thief uses when he steals from someone.... 

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43 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

so they can live a lifestyle beyond basic. 

I think this is such a key point! Notice the assumptions laid out in some of these posts... that a young person starting out in retail should have their own apartment. Why? I've known many young people during my lifetime that stayed at their parents' home a little longer to save up a nest egg. This was, in fact, the "norm" throughout history! Likewise, I see some of my friends' kids who share apt's or houses, enjoying one room of their own and the rest is common area. The thing with the U.S.... is that our standard of living is so very high that people have a warped view of what life must look like. They confuse basic needs with luxuries. We don't even know what real poverty looks like as compared to global standards of poverty. I always chuckle when I hear the social justice types talking about "food insecurity" - or "food deserts" - we had to create these "invented" labels  ("1st world" problems), because REAL starvation as a pressing social issue has been virtually eliminated for some time now. 

Does that mean I don't think that there are people who are hungry, homeless, etc. in this country? No, of course not. But, I also think our expectations of "standard of living" are ridiculously high. We've almost created a monster... we've made life so easy for the vast majority of people, they don't even value the concept of hard work anymore (because they've never had to work hard in their lives).

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9 hours ago, Greenday said:

Let's say it is the most basic job. Well the most basic income should support a basic living.

Quoting a different post because of the length of your response.

But here is the beginning of your issue.

 I'm going to say let's go ahead and sacrifice buying that Ferrari. 

This is not your call.  You don’t understand liberty and freedom. Neither you nor any politician gets to control someones life like that.  Though I know you think you have a right to......

And regarding your comments on Walmart.....  your assumptions are wrong.  How do I know?  My wife worked there for seven years.  Their benefits are good.  Their stock plan and matching 401k plan are good.  Employees get quarterly bonuses.  They have extremely generous assistance plans.  And $15 an hour is ballpark avg for where people can start depending what job they apply for.   Plus they are doing the $15 min wage thing...so in a few years, that will be the minimum.

Maybe you’re also thinking..... these are rare jobs? Well, the 3 busiest Walmarts in the country are here in NJ?  Kearny, Secaucus and North Bergen.  Each has about 1000 employees each and does about a $400k in business each day. More on weekends.  During Christmas season it would be $700 to $800k on weekends.  Upward mobility is readily available.  Many many store managers started as hourly employees.

And on your expense scenario.  Do you not understand that these are entry level positions?  Taken by people who live with family or roommates? When you use your determination and effort, and get that dept mgr or asst mgr position, you can go rent that studio, or a low end house.

And if you happened to be starting over for some reason and have some sort of decent work experience...you can start as a dept manager.

Don’t like in store work? You a truck driver.  They are hiring and as I recall, they start at about $100k.

Yes....... $100,000 per year.

oh yeah.....  do you have a criminal record?  No problem.  You can be hired...the only background checks are for pharmacy employees for obvious reasons.

Similar opportunities exist at other retail companies.  It’s not unique to walmart.  Although a company as large as walmart gives you lots of options.

So.....the original issue..... YOU determine your future. Opportunities are many. It is not the problem of other citizens to carry your water.  Suck it up and go make you way through life.  You get back what you put in.  Its all up to the individual.

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43 minutes ago, Kevin125 said:

So.....the original issue..... YOU determine your future.

Your future is capped based on what part of the economic ladder you are born into. The extreme majority of people born in poverty will end up in poverty never having a chance to move up.

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1 hour ago, Greenday said:

Your future is capped based on what part of the economic ladder you are born into. The extreme majority of people born in poverty will end up in poverty never having a chance to move up.

Tell that to Ben Carson.

You clearly do not understand America.

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1 hour ago, Greenday said:

Your future is capped based on what part of the economic ladder you are born into. The extreme majority of people born in poverty will end up in poverty never having a chance to move up.

You know that's bs.  If you are born into poverty the only thing that holds you back is how devoted you are to bringing yourself up.

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2 hours ago, Greenday said:

Your future is capped based on what part of the economic ladder you are born into.

Well, sort of. If your parents are slackers, and choose to live off the system, instead of improving themselves and their situation, odds are, you'll copy them, become a socialist slug too, living off of the system.

The true economic ladder has nothing to do with that.

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21 hours ago, Greenday said:

Your future is capped based on what part of the economic ladder you are born into. The extreme majority of people born in poverty will end up in poverty never having a chance to move up.

The American dream involves hard work and self-sufficiency. You clearly don't get it.

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43 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

There are no exceptions, and the rules are clear. No one, NO ONE, is successful in life with out investing in themselves. 

How can a person like Jeff Bezos be an exception to the rule?

 

 

 

image.png

Dude reminds me of @voyager9 Living in his moms basement 

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3 hours ago, Greenday said:

Personally, I'd like to see some catching up as inflation is catching up with a lot of people who don't have much as is.

Why are you so focused on TAKING money from the rich to give to the less fortunate who blow all their money? You know, the paycheck to paycheck crowd. Lack of self control in spending is the majority of the reason these people are poor.

Why aren't you preaching for these poor people to spend LESS then they make or adjust their spending to their income? How's that for a novel approach?

The key to becoming rich (which apparently you haven't figured out), is to spend LESS then you make. Did it ever occur to you that the reason these evil people ARE rich, was because they SAVED their money and DIDN'T blow their complete paychecks each week?

3 hours ago, Greenday said:

Looks like post taxes, the bottom 90% are getting their asses kicked.

The bottom half of the population (almost 50% of the population) doesn't pay any income taxes. So guess who is paying for all the government services YOU use every day? The RICH PEOPLE.

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@Greenday

You just keep contradicting your self. You are literally no better then a common thief. You can't justify stealing from one to give to another, so you try to paint it in morality... 

Why are you always so focused on what other people have?

 

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