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CA 10-Round mag limit struck down

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33 minutes ago, photon guy said:

So this happened at the federal level, does this mean that NJ's "high capacity" magazine ban is also struck down?

No,  only has authority in his area.  Ala California.  If brought to 9th circus and overturned, then brought to SCOTUS, and Scotus takes case and overturns 9th circus, then we need to sue NJ, as they will ignore the decision,  once brought to Scotus again then maybe NJ will actually follow the law.

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34 minutes ago, photon guy said:

So this happened at the federal level, does this mean that NJ's "high capacity" magazine ban is also struck down?

No. This was a District-court decision so it only covers that district. To impact N.J. it has to hit SCOTUS. 

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3 minutes ago, PeteF said:

No,  only has authority in his area.  Ala California.  If brought to 9th circus and overturned, then brought to SCOTUS, and Scotus takes case and overturns 9th circus, then it does.

Any way to get it to SCOTUS without it being overturned by the 9th circuit? 

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Closing remarks

 

"This decision is a freedom calculus decided long ago by Colonists who cherished
individual freedom more than the subservient security of a British ruler. The freedom 
they fought for was not free of cost then, and it is not free now."

__________________________
HON. ROGER T. BENITEZ 
United States District Judge

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2 hours ago, photon guy said:

Any way to get it to SCOTUS without it being overturned by the 9th circuit? 

Nope.  Not this decision.  Without the decision being overturned by the 9th circus there is nothing to bring to the SCOTUS.

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:18 PM, High Exposure said:

FYI: the Honorable Roger T. Benitez was born in Havana, Cuba.  He understands these communists and sees right through them:

"This conclusion should not be considered groundbreaking. It is simply a straightforward application of constitutional law to an experimental governmental-overreach that goes far beyond traditional boundaries of reasonable gun regulation."

 

Who said that?

Reasonable gun regulation?

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8 minutes ago, sota said:

56381570_10155950615547097_2561101179132

..... HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THEY DIDN'T WASTE ANY TIME!

I didn't realize this was a "summary judgment".  There wasn't even a full trial.  Basically the judge said to the  State of CA "Are you fucking kidding with this shit?"

A Bush Appointee none the less.

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11 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I wonder what presents our en banc in the 3rd will hold

How about a sharp stick in the eye and a bloody fight all the way through SCOTUS?

I've been at this for a long time now. I've learned not to expect anything good on the 2A front.

But when a flying unicorn shows up at my door with a golden ticket in a Wonka bar, I'll be happy as shit !

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51 minutes ago, sota said:

..... HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THEY DIDN'T WASTE ANY TIME!

Who said they weren't capitalists, they'll make tons from everyone who took a hammer to their 15 rounders...

Does anyone know, does this ruling re-rack back to 15, or can they go full bore to 30?

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3 hours ago, PeteF said:

No,  only has authority in his area.  Ala California.  If brought to 9th circus and overturned, then brought to SCOTUS, and Scotus takes case and overturns 9th circus, then we need to sue NJ, as they will ignore the decision,  once brought to Scotus again then maybe NJ will actually follow the law.

 

3 hours ago, voyager9 said:

No. This was a District-court decision so it only covers that district. To impact N.J. it has to hit SCOTUS. 

This can go a few ways.   

1.  The 9th circuit accepts the decision and California has no magazine ban.

2.  The 9th circuit appeals to the Supreme Court.

If #1 happens, we get fucked in Jersey.

If #2 happens, then the Supreme Court will either fuck us or help us.

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2 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Does anyone know, does this ruling re-rack back to 15, or can they go full bore to 30?

From what I've read (in the past) in the CA statutes, once the 10 limit goes away THE SKY IS THE LIMIT

CA never had a 15 round limit.

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32 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

How about a sharp stick in the eye and a bloody fight all the way through SCOTUS?

I've been at this for a long time now. I've learned not to expect anything good on the 2A front.

But when a flying unicorn shows up at my door with a golden ticket in a Wonka bar, I'll be happy as shit !

I dunno. More and more constitutional states. More states losing court and becoming shall issue, and then this mind altering universe changer. Stay positive 

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2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:
2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

 

This can go a few ways.   

1.  The 9th circuit accepts the decision and California has no magazine ban.

2.  The 9th circuit appeals to the Supreme Court.

If #1 happens, we get fucked in Jersey.

If #2 happens, then the Supreme Court will either fuck us or help us.

#1 That's how it already is in NJ, at least in terms of gun rights.

#2 Considering we've got a very conservative SCOTUS especially with the two appointees by Trump, I would count on the ladder.

So lets say that this doesn't get to the SCOTUS. Is there any way the NJ magazine ban can be challenged and brought to the 9th circuit the same way its being challenged in CA?

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5 hours ago, photon guy said:

So lets say that this doesn't get to the SCOTUS. Is there any way the NJ magazine ban can be challenged and brought to the 9th circuit the same way its being challenged in CA?

No

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but we could do the same (hypothetically) if we had a DNJ case overthrow our ban and it was upheld by the 3rd? Probably more likely the CA case would make it to SCOTUS before we’d win a case here. Hell can only freeze over so many times. 

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5 minutes ago, SIGMan Freud said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but we could do the same (hypothetically) if we had a DNJ case overthrow our ban and it was upheld by the 3rd? Probably more likely the CA case would make it to SCOTUS before we’d win a case here. Hell can only freeze over so many times. 

We’ve already had a 3 judge panel uphold N.J. ban. We are waiting on enbanc. And the 3rd now has a conservative majority. Most say we should hear something by early summer 

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13 hours ago, photon guy said:

So this happened at the federal level, does this mean that NJ's "high capacity" magazine ban is also struck down?

No

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9 hours ago, Zeke said:

I wonder what presents our en banc in the 3rd will hold

Already denied.

THIRD CIRCUIT REFUSES EN BANC REVIEW
OF MAG BAN APPEAL

 

Case Must Now Proceed in Lower Federal Court

Before Supreme Court Review is Available

 
Earlier this week, the full panel of judges of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit refused to overturn the December 5 decision of a 3-judge panel that failed to temporarily halt NJ's ban on magazines holding between 11 and 15 rounds during the appeals process. The decision leaves the mag ban in place, and paves the way for an eventual appeal that could lead to the U.S. Supreme Court.
 
See a copy of the court's decision here.
 
The next step is for the main case (which seeks to permanently overturn the mag ban) to return to the lower federal district court for further proceedings and final disposition, after which the case can then be further appealed. 

THIRD CIRCUIT REFUSES EN BANC REVIEW
OF MAG BAN APPEAL

 

Case Must Now Proceed in Lower Federal Court

Before Supreme Court Review is Available

 
Earlier this week, the full panel of judges of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit refused to overturn the December 5 decision of a 3-judge panel that failed to temporarily halt NJ's ban on magazines holding between 11 and 15 rounds during the appeals process. The decision leaves the mag ban in place, and paves the way for an eventual appeal that could lead to the U.S. Supreme Court.
 
See a copy of the court's decision here.
 
The next step is for the main case (which seeks to permanently overturn the mag ban) to return to the lower federal district court for further proceedings and final disposition, after which the case can then be further appealed. 
17 minutes ago, Zeke said:

We’ve already had a 3 judge panel uphold N.J. ban. We are waiting on enbanc. And the 3rd now has a conservative majority. Most say we should hear something by early summer 

En Banc review was already denied

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On 3/29/2019 at 7:23 PM, voyager9 said:

So it says the entire law was invalidated. So does that mean CA residents can get 30’s again or is it back to the old limit which I think was 15

Good question. Just a guess, but the State will probably request the Ninth Cir to stay the decision for now

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9 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

 

This can go a few ways.   

1.  The 9th circuit accepts the decision and California has no magazine ban.

2.  The 9th circuit appeals to the Supreme Court.

If #1 happens, we get fucked in Jersey.

If #2 happens, then the Supreme Court will either fuck us or help us.

Technically for #2 I think you mean that the 9th accepts the appeal and overturns the district court decision. The plaintiff can then appeal to SCOTUS.  The way you worded it made it seem like the 9th did the appealing. 

Either way you’re right. If the defendant (CA) decides not to appeal to the 9th then this ruling stays but only impacts CA.  This would be huge for CA but laregely inconsequential everywhere else. If anything it’s a demoralizing hit to the idea that CA us the “leader” in gun control.

If they appeal to the 9th and that court upholds the lower court ruling then the decision would apply to the entire circuit (CA, WA, OR, NV I think).  This would be bigger in that it would also overturnsg bans in OR and stop similar efforts in WA. 

If the 9th overturns the district court then the plaintiff can appeal to SCOTUS.  If they accept the case and overturn the 9th then mag bans country-wide are done. If they side with the 9th then we’re fscked. 

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11 minutes ago, SJG said:

Good question. Just a guess, but the State will probably request the Ninth Cir to stay the decision for now

PSA has announced that they are shipping standard capacity mags to CA ASAP.

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If I was in Calif, I would hold off buying any to see if a stay is issued pending a decision of the Ninth Cir.

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If no final judgment yet entered in the N.J. District Court (3rd Cir. Sent it back) this Calif opinion could be used to try and convince the N.J. District Judge (who only denied a preliminary injunction) that 10 round NJ law is unconstitutional

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14 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

I'm having trouble understanding why when a liberal court, like the Ninth Circuit, blocks an EO by Trump, it applies everywhere, but when there is a ruling like this, it only affects the specific jurisdiction.  

There is more to it than you've presented here.

If you're talking about the EO instating the travel ban here is the time line of that:

https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-muslim-ban

When you read it you'll see that eventually there were several federal appellate courts that upheld the lower court's decision to block the travel ban.  Instead of waiting for a final decision on the original travel ban the Trump signed two more EOs instating a travel ban.  No doubt they tried to address the issues used by the courts to block the bans. It all came to a head when the cases went to SCOTUS.

A decision made in appellate court becomes case law and can be used in arguments in similar cases.

A decision made in a district court becomes "law of the case"  and only applies to the specific case being heard. This is where we're at with this decision.

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11 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

 

This can go a few ways.   

1.  The 9th circuit accepts the decision and California has no magazine ban.

2.  The 9th circuit appeals to the Supreme Court.

If #1 happens, we get fucked in Jersey.

If #2 happens, then the Supreme Court will either fuck us or help us.

I dunno about that...

the CA ruling by that judge, and his opinion, is pretty thorough in eviscerating every "argument" for mag bans.  If the 9th accepts it, then then we can argue in the 3rd that the 9th has it right.  if the 3rd denies it seems to me SCOTUS has to look favorably on CA/9th ruling in favor of striking the ban.  If the 9th rejects it'll definitely go to SCOTUS; that's where we could get fucked if the originalists on the court don't get the rest to fall in line.

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In actuality, it is more complicated. While 10 rounds is the common element, the two statutes are not identical, and a conflict between two or more circuits does not require the Supremes to hear the case. There are lots of instances were Circuits disagree on a point of law and the Court denies review. That is a big problem, the Court should be required to grant review

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