How critical is it for you to have your little finger on the grip?

[Regular Guy 264]

Great input from everyone!  So the poll results show just over 32% of voters are not bothered by the dangling finger while just over 35% voted that they can't stand it.  This is a surprise to me, I thought it would be much more separation between the two in favor of those who did not like it.

Several people mentioned that they CCW smallest gun possible, while others said they carry what they are most comfortable shooting, even if it's a bigger model gun.  On that point, I think comfort is the common denominator.  You have to be comfortable enough shooting it to be confident enough to carry it.  You have to be comfortable enough while carrying the gun or you won't want to carry it.  So size does matter    

  

[10X 3,296]

3 minutes ago, Regular Guy said:

So the poll results show just over 32% of voters are not bothered by the dangling finger while just over 35% voted that they can't stand it.  This is a surprise to me, I thought it would be much more separation between the two in favor of those who did not like it.

The separation is in how well the supported-pinkie-crowd shoots compared to the dangling-pinkie crowd.  :-)

 

[Malice4you 627]

I forgot to add that I also have a Kimber Pepper Blaster that has a pistol grip(-ish) protrusion, that I can only get my middle finger around.  The grip is strangely comfortable, though it may be because there is so much gripping area for the thumb and no threat of recoil or blowback (unless I'm downwind of discharging it), so I don't mind the lack of a grip so much.

If I had a similar sized/shaped gun in something like .22WMR/.17HMR, or other lower-recoiling rounds, maybe a break barrel derringer, it might be a fun and interesting gun that I wouldn't mind not having more of a grip.  Not as a primary CCW piece, but a backup perhaps...

[High Exposure 5,661]

13 minutes ago, Regular Guy said:

Great input from everyone!  So the poll results show just over 32% of voters are not bothered by the dangling finger while just over 35% voted that they can't stand it.  This is a surprise to me, I thought it would be much more separation between the two in favor of those who did not like it.

Several people mentioned that they CCW smallest gun possible, while others said they carry what they are most comfortable shooting, even if it's a bigger model gun.  On that point, I think comfort is the common denominator.  You have to be comfortable enough shooting it to be confident enough to carry it.  You have to be comfortable enough while carrying the gun or you won't want to carry it.  So size does matter    

  

Carrying a gun should be comforting.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be comfortable.

 

[Regular Guy 264]

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Carrying a gun should be comforting.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be comfortable.

 

That is an idiom commonly tossed out when people talk about carrying a gun.  I don't see why having a gun that's comfortable to carry is an unreasonable requirement, especially when I am the one selecting the gun.  I'm not trying to conceal something that was handed to me and I have no choice in what gun it is.  In the history of all man-kind, we are at the pinnacle of modern science and technology.  We put a man on the moon 50 years ago.  I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to find a gun that can be carried comfortably, especially with all the various sizes, makes and models out there.   

[vladtepes 1,060]

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Carrying a gun should be comforting.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be comfortable.

 

my preference is that it be both.. 

as I stated.. if I were to carry the most ideal gun for self defense.. I would carry my AR15.. I am extremely fast and accurate with it.. it has a large magazine capacity.. but we live in a world of compromise... 

I see any handgun as a compromise.. because I believe them to be inferior to a carbine.. 
you see a small framed handgun as a compromise.. 

my point is they are both compromises of varying degree to different people.. if I am stuck carrying a handgun my qualifications are deep concealment.. and ability to hit the target at 25 yards.. that's my checklist.. 

my 22 does that.. 
my 27 did that.. 
my 43 does that.. 

so I choose the one that is most comfortable to carry.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

if you want me to just come out and say it.. there are places even in free America that prefer that you do not carry a gun.. I am not interested in that game.. so I avoid that by not taking notice of any signs... and not carrying a gun that prints in any way.. you will absolutely positively not see my 43 even if you are looking for it.. will you see a 27.. 19... 22? maybe? maybe not.. but the 43 is virtually impossible to notice.. so it wins the round.. and gets the pick.. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

1 hour ago, Regular Guy said:

That is an idiom commonly tossed out when people talk about carrying a gun.  I don't see why having a gun that's comfortable to carry is an unreasonable requirement, especially when I am the one selecting the gun.  I'm not trying to conceal something that was handed to me and I have no choice in what gun it is.  In the history of all man-kind, we are at the pinnacle of modern science and technology.  We put a man on the moon 50 years ago.  I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to find a gun that can be carried comfortably, especially with all the various sizes, makes and models out there.   

What’s uncomfortable to you may be just fine to me. What I find most comfortable is carrying a gun I know I shoot better than anything else. I also don’t find carrying a larger/heavier gun uncomfortable. Like I said in an earlier post, bad guys routinely carry big guns. They don’t care about how comfortable it is. They care only about one thing - winning. They live in a world where that’s the norm. That’s how it is and they won’t be caught “lacking” if the time comes. Why can’t a legally armed citizen have the same mindset?

Yes, I agree - an AR 15 would be ideal and if I could look into my crystal ball and I knew I was getting into a gunfight, I would either stay home or make sure I had access to a rifle. But that’s not a realistic answer - and justifying the carry of a pocket gun simply because you can’t carry a rifle is silliness at best and petulance at worst.... you may shoot the rifle best (as do I), but I am sure there is something between an AR and a pocket gun that remains as concealable, is more ”shootable”, and is more capable than a pistol the size of a wallet.

But anyway, since my crystal ball is in the shop, I try to stack the deck in my favor in a reasonable fashion and carry a pistol that is reliable, effective, capable, and still concealable. Like I said - I carry a G19/23 or G34/35 sized gun in plain clothes every day, all day, in all seasons. I don’t find it uncomfortable and it does not inhibit me whatsoever from doing anything. I have never printed or shown and never been caught carrying.

Yes, some forethought is required, some planning, and smart equipment choices like a quality belt designed to carry a gun and a good holster must be made, but if you can carry a small gun, you can carry a larger one.

YMMV, IMO, and all that.....

Everyone lucky enough to be able to legally carry a firearm should carry whatever they want. Just be honest and realistic about what you choose and why. Acknowledge some guns are less capable and you are taking a calculated risk. And when giving advice to others, the responsible thing to do is to reveal the  choices you made as part of a compromise and not an absolute.

[SW9racer 262]

There is also the ccw use perspective. The regular person wants something they can use to escape. The leo or retired want something they can use to rush in to diffuse the situation.  Then there is printing. If regular person prints, a nice leo will check credentials and escort you out of the establishment. A retired leo shows his id and continues shopping. Hence I go g43/lcp2 and not g19/1911. 

[fishnut 2,358]

11 minutes ago, SW9racer said:

There is also the ccw use perspective. The regular person wants something they can use to escape. The leo or retired want something they can use to rush in to diffuse the situation.  Then there is printing. If regular person prints, a nice leo will check credentials and escort you out of the establishment. A retired leo shows his id and continues shopping. Hence I go g43/lcp2 and not g19/1911. 

I dont know where you live but up here in northern New Hampshire no one gets their ID checked or gets escorted out of an establishment for printing. 

[weekend_junkie 129]

On 4/6/2019 at 11:11 PM, Malice4you said:

With both cameras and guns, I cannot stand having a dangling pinky below.  I have a Ruger LC9S Pro with the extension on it for comfort of shooting.  I may try it again without the pinky extension sometime, but seeing how I can't carry, concealment isn't a real issue.  Around the house, I typically have the Glock 23 or Sig Pro 2022 on me OWB.  The LC9S is my smallest pistol.  All my cameras have a battery grip below, most built-in, some added on.

If I were actually able to carry, I think I would opt for the 23 or 2022 most of the time.  I just prefer the size of those pistols, and capacity is (was significantly) better than the LC9S.  Once I actually have to worry about carrying, then I'll worry more about if a 1/2" longer pinky grip matters.

I’m in a similar boat. I shoot my LC9s Pro with the extension. My issue without the extension is that half of my pinky is on the mag lip so I can’t put pressure not relax it since my other fingers are working in gross-motor-skill mode.

I do have smaller pistols such as the Beretta 21a Bobcat. I now instinctively curl my pinky underneath to act as a platform for the mag. It’s probably why I can deal with a half supported pinky on slightly larger guns.

[father-of-three 243]

I have a p3at with a very sensitive mag release button that would release a mag with a pinky extension with the slightest touch/bump of my thumb through the recoil.   This situation actually worked to my benefit with lots of practice to be able to shoot the p3at effectively without a pinky extension.

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 hours ago, SW9racer said:

There is also the ccw use perspective. The regular person wants something they can use to escape. The leo or retired want something they can use to rush in to diffuse the situation.  Then there is printing. If regular person prints, a nice leo will check credentials and escort you out of the establishment. A retired leo shows his id and continues shopping. Hence I go g43/lcp2 and not g19/1911. 

I have encountered LEO while open carrying a full size Glock and have never even taken a second look.. for what its worth I am in central PA..

the bigger issue is the random store that happens to have a no gun policy on some tiny unnoticeable sign.. they may approach and ask you to leave if they see a gun.. and you need to comply or then you are on the wrong side of the law.. 

[Old School 611]

Having just reviewed the recent results of the poll it is pretty sad.

If a firearm is useless to you if you can't get a pinky on it, get some damned training and learn to shoot.

I was taught to shoot a 1911 with 3 fingers.  I carry a "no pinky gun" every day with no consequence.

I'm not a USPSA champ, not some "Operator".  Just an average guy that can shoot.

I'm kind of thin and need to carry a small pistol. No pinky and a little ring finger on it.

I don't want to get crazy here but, self defense involves more that hitting paper and requires a mind set.

Yes my fun/target handguns have full grips.

Flame on MF'ers

 

HE said it:

Carrying a gun should be comforting.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be comfortable.

[Malice4you 627]

39 minutes ago, Old School said:

Having just reviewed the recent results of the poll it is pretty sad.

If a firearm is useless to you if you can't get a pinky on it, get some damned training and learn to shoot.

I was taught to shoot a 1911 with 3 fingers.  I carry a "no pinky gun" every day with no consequence.

I'm not a USPSA champ, not some "Operator".  Just an average guy that can shoot.

I'm kind of thin and need to carry a small pistol. No pinky and a little ring finger on it.

I don't want to get crazy here but, self defense involves more that hitting paper and requires a mind set.

Yes my fun/target handguns have full grips.

Flame on MF'ers

 

HE said it:

Carrying a gun should be comforting.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be comfortable.

I seriously doubt anyone cannot shoot their gun whatsoever with a dangling pinky, then are suddenly be able to shoot again when loaded with a mag with a pinky extension. It is simply a matter of comfort. I can't stand having my pinky hanging below because it feels wrong and mildly annoying, not because I become incapable of holding or shooting the gun at all.  If it doesn't bother you, great. It annoys me, so for the one gun it is a minor issue on, I have the extension on. I can't carry concealed anyway, so until that changes, it has zero effect on anything except my comfort as a range toy. At home, I have a G23 sized pistol on me and long guns nearby. It would certainly be more comfortable to carry the LC9S around the house, yet I still chose capability over comfort there.  I see this like me telling you you should carry a thicker carry gun because it fits me fine - my feelings on you and your gun really have zero effect on you. Everyone should train with what they are comfortable with, should train for worst case scenarios, and carry what is appropriate for their situation, be it with or without pinky extension, or mouse gun or 6" 1911, or like the average FPS game character, with 4 pistols, 2 SMGs, 3 rifles, and an RPG.

[Regular Guy 264]

2 hours ago, Old School said:

Having just reviewed the recent results of the poll it is pretty sad.

If a firearm is useless to you if you can't get a pinky on it, get some damned training and learn to shoot.

 

I chose the word "useless" on purpose, to be an exaggeration of the uncomfortable feeling some people feel when holding a gun where they can't get all their fingers on the grip.  I did not mean the literal interpretation that the gun would be completely useless.  I did this to add little bit of comedic levity to the poll.  Same thing with answer choice about one having a hand the size of a bear claw.  Again, this was an exaggeration. Where's your sense of humor? 

[PK90 3,570]

I would like to know who that freak with the bear claw is.

[Screwball 483]

When I came up to ME, I familiarized myself with their carry laws. I did cross through NH for a short time (have a permit for there), but I lucked out since the only state I had to worry about was ME. I went into Canada yesterday, but simply left the gun in the safe at the hotel (CBSA asked if I had a gun, when I mentioned CBP... told them yes, and they were shocked when I said it’s at the hotel; simple suggestion, if they word that question in a way that makes you think they are making small talk, just answer the status of firearms on your person/in your vehicle).

When I went down to FL, I usually tend to carry my LCP. Main reason... wallet holster makes it easy/discrete to toss in lockbox when I get to a state I can’t carry in. I do use the pinky rest bases... but you cannot tell the difference between it and the flat bases in my holster (even with the spare magazine in it). I considered that when I came up here, but tossing it in my pocket isn’t as beneficial compared to the comfort of OWB... which can be done concealed very easily. And if it accidentally is uncovered, especially in the area I’m at... it isn’t a huge deal. My realtor’s husband is the Deputy Sheriff for the county, and this past weekend, he drove her to the house that I put an offer on. Multiple people were all there looking, literally within 30 minutes of one another. Before I went in to look, had to pull my car out to the street so people could get out. Ran back to the house because I figured there was another person coming behind us, and really wanted to look hard... her husband saw the gun at like 5:00. Don’t know if it helps that he knows I’m starting with CBP... but didn’t have any issue with me going in the house alone with his wife.

My J-frame might not be the best gun out there, but it’s been on me most of my time up here... all the time when I could carry it. It’s an Airweight, so loaded, it isn’t too terrible on my belt. But the reason why I brought it... I’m confident with it, and feel comfortable with it on my person. The grips are LG-405s... so no room for pinky.

When concealment comes up, size is a big thing. Some people can’t conceal a Glock 19. Others can (I have a 30S, which is close enough to 19 size... and can conceal it). I say you should go as big of a gun as you feel comfortable with (not just shootability, but concealment). If you need to go smaller, practice with it and confirm you can shoot it well enough. Once you get there, be sure you can conceal it. Any issue with any of those considerations... rethink your carry choice.

But if you suck shooting a 26 with a flush 10 rounder, yet can shoot better with the 12 rounder... I’m not seeing a problem. If there happens to be an issue concealing that gun/magazine... which I feel is a little unlikely... you can either switch guns or practice with the 10 rounder to get to a point where it all comes together.

[Old School 611]

3 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

I chose the word "useless" on purpose, to be an exaggeration of the uncomfortable feeling some people feel when holding a gun where they can't get all their fingers on the grip.  I did not mean the literal interpretation that the gun would be completely useless.  I did this to add little bit of comedic levity to the poll.  Same thing with answer choice about one having a hand the size of a bear claw.  Again, this was an exaggeration. Where's your sense of humor? 

Surrender your firearm.  Jokes/Levity? Exaggerations?  Not with firearms my friend. 

[raz-0 1,259]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:51 AM, High Exposure said:

From a pure shooting standpoint, the bottom finger of your grip - preferably the pinky - is the most influential out of all your fingers when considering speed and accuracy. 

Can you shoot well without your pinky on the grip? Sure.

But nearly everyone on the planet will shoot better with all of their fingers in contact with the grip. It’s leverage. The longer (talking length - not time, here) your grip is, the more leverage you have to combat recoil induced muzzle flip. Would you swing a hammer with your pinky off the grip? Turn a wrench using only your first three fingers? Hold a baseball bat or tennis racket with your pinkies hanging out in space? Of course not. It feels weak and uncomfortable. 

I agree with Ray. I see it all the time when people are buying guns. They want the smallest gun they can get, then they realize they shoot it better with a full size grip and fix it with mag/grip extensions  

If you are gonna get grip extensions anyway, just get the bigger gun. You will shoot it better, it will absorb recoil better, your split times will be faster, your draw will be cleaner. 

You are wrong, but because you are right.

On paper, I agree with you. It sounds like it should work that way. However....

Because you are right about the pinky having undue influence.  I find that in people who have a tendency to milk the grip, a shorter grip can often give better, more consistent results. This is because we don't really control the recoil on a gun. I have yet to see someone who stops the recoil form moving the gun. We manage it, and that pinky only adds so much to the brute strength equation, and we don't dedicate a whole lot of brain to fine motor control of the pinky, so it's really not doing the heavy lifting when it comes to management. It's much better at screwing things up before breaking the shot where we give the least capable finger outsized influence because of that increased leverage you mention. 

The right answer is make your pinky less retarded, build up your control of it, and stop milking the grip. But the short grip can actually be some shooters' crutch just as much as a full size gun. 

If guns were like wrenches, hammers, baseball bats and tennis racquets where the fingers can essentially go completely around the grip, I don't think this would be an issue where results can vary, but guns aren't like that.  

Post breaking the shot, it's a majority of brute force. More fingers better. Pre- breaking the shot, it's about subtlety and control. And if you look at things that need that. you find a whole lot of instances where you use three fingers and tell the pinky to go fuck off because it's useless.