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Ray Ray

Ruger expands the PCC line-up

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2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/ruger-announces-six-new-pc-carbine-models/#axzz5kv4mHUxG

Curious as to why they would release a 40 S&W version but NOT other magwells.

Will have to watch my video coming later this weekend! 

 

 

28D42B7D-76BA-4C02-82C4-3B936D8EEA70.jpeg

45 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

looks like a PPSH - I like!

 

Geez another PpsH person. Lol 

First thing Todd @FreedomSportsLLC said when he did my transfer last week was that it looks like PPSH. 

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2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/ruger-announces-six-new-pc-carbine-models/#axzz5kv4mHUxG

Curious as to why they would release a 40 S&W version but NOT other magwells.

Exactly. Where is the Beretta 92 magwell adaptor? That's the one I want

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Just now, Theron said:

All you need is a drum magazine

I have a BIG stick right now and waiting for 5 more in the mail.

A drum is also what I had in mind but the design of it,  would look really weird as it was meant to fit in a hand grip.

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1 hour ago, Bully said:

Isn't 40 a good option for competition or are the PCC's in a class of their own with no major/minor scoring?  I'm generally confused about the match thing.  

A 40 is actually an excellent option for anything.  The ammo has come down in price, there are a ton of police trade-in Glocks to use the same magazines and it is a better caliber in this platform than a 9mm.  

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5 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

A 40 is actually an excellent option for anything.  The ammo has come down in price, there are a ton of police trade-in Glocks to use the same magazines and it is a better caliber in this platform than a 9mm.  

Thank you Ray. 

That doesn’t address my question concerning competition though. 

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4 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

A 40 is actually an excellent option for anything.  

 

4 hours ago, Bully said:

That doesn’t address my question concerning competition though. 

You're welcome 

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3 hours ago, fishnut said:

I wish they put out a 10mm instead 

10mm is dying.  The industry is trying to revive it but it's too expensive, too much recoil and doesn't do anything a 40 S&W can't do.

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14 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

10mm is dying.  The industry is trying to revive it but it's too expensive, too much recoil and doesn't do anything a 40 S&W can't do.

So I think that's the big thing... 10mm ammo is a niche... a very nichey nich.  Ammo is tough to find and you won't find it going to most stores.

Just look at 380 ammo prices vs 9mm... 9mm is nearly half the price!  10mm would easily be more expensive than a box of 45 ACP.

It only really makes sense for guys and gals who reload.  Once you have the brass, the costs over 40 sw are minute... just a bit more powder. 

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26 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

10mm is dying.  The industry is trying to revive it but it's too expensive, too much recoil and doesn't do anything a 40 S&W can't do.

10mm is better for hunting. If ruger made one in 10mm I'd definatly buy one for deer hunting up here. 

10mm to much recoil in a carbine??? Man up ray. 

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50 minutes ago, fishnut said:

10mm is better for hunting. If ruger made one in 10mm I'd definatly buy one for deer hunting up here. 

10mm to much recoil in a carbine??? Man up ray. 

The question is....  where can you hunt with a 10mm carbine that you can't hunt with a 223, etc?  If you are going to have a rifle... get a rifle. 

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10mm... I love the caliber, but no plans on buying another firearm in it. Only chance, maybe a 1066. But then I’d have to send it to get converted to decock only. Magazines are same as my 1006, so would be the only reason.

Long gun wise, no need for a 10mm.

Said it before, but I’d want .45. Threaded barrel, great suppressor host. Ruger could even do an integral barrel assembly, make it 16” total barrel/suppressor length... and put out a one stamp gun.

Gun is a blowback, so I’d say it is likely going to kick some more. While I usually either completely agree or completely disagree with Ray Ray, I do feel the current carbine would not handle 10mm recoil well. And I mean true 10mm... not .40ish loads. But pushing for a 10mm version makes .45 more marketable.

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57 minutes ago, Maksim said:

The question is....  where can you hunt with a 10mm carbine that you can't hunt with a 223, etc?  If you are going to have a rifle... get a rifle. 

Why is that the question?

What if you want to have a PCC that uses the same mags as your preferred sidearm when you wander in the woods?

Why is everyone so narrow minded?

More choices is more better!

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1 minute ago, High Exposure said:

Why is that the question?

What if you want to have a PCC that uses the same mags as your preferred sidearm when you wander in the woods?

Why is everyone so narrow minded?

More choices is more better!

It's not about being narrow minded but bringing the best tool for the job.

Otherwise, half the police departments would be using AKs, Scars, ACrs, P90s, etc.  

Why are they so narrow minded?

lol. Not sure who pissed in your cheerios and you should perfectly well know I love variety of guns.

Besides, what is someone more likely to have an AR mag or a Glock 10mm mag?  And how many people carry a Glock in 10mm...

After all, that would be the only common 10mm PC carbine mag out there right?

Besides, a 180 grain 10mm has a maximum velocity of 1,200 FPS or so....  Unless that game you are hunting is within 50 to 100 yards... you are really bordering on un-ethical.

So if you want a pistol caliber... it needs to be something for grown ups... like 41 magnum same 180 grain is around 1,500 fps... 44 Mag, etc.

Beyond that... that carbine is not saving you ANYTHING weight or size wise...

SO... you are giving up A LOT of ballistics and energy... to get a gun that "uses same mags as your preferred sidearm" and not to be perceived as closed minded. lol.

Personally, if I am going out into the wood, call me closed minded, I would be carrying a 41 mag or higher revolver an an AR, AK, or a bolt gun that can put down a bear and not piss it off. =)

 

 

10 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Why is that the question?

What if you want to have a PCC that uses the same mags as your preferred sidearm when you wander in the woods?

Why is everyone so narrow minded?

More choices is more better!

And once again... this is not dissing 10mm in a carbine choice for home defense or shits and giggles at the range...

This is primarily talking about taking a pistol caliber carbine hunting.... VS a proper rifle cartridge.

And I am not a hunter, but my understanding if you can hunt with a Pistol Carbine.... you can hunt with a rifle. 

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Ok, so this had me intrigued...

By hunting or in the woods, I think bear protection....  again, I am not a hunter, but by most accounts, MINIMUM recommended caliber is 44 magnum (pistol caliber).

You are looking at more than twice the energy for heavy loads in 44 mag vs 10mm. 

In 44 mag, you are launching projectiles of between 160 grains to 355 grains,  with far less ease and more energy than a 10mm... and getting the same energy out of a 10mm gun, would not be pleasant. 

So if ANYTHING.... we need to be asking for a Pistol Caliber Carbine in 44 Mag that takes Desert Eagle mags.   

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I don’t have 10mm anything, so no one pissed in my Cheerios. I just hate declarative statements based on one persons frame of reference.

Lots of people trust 10mm in the woods for bear and other large animals. Lots of people use 10mm to hunt and to put down big animals.

Full house Norma 10mm at original design specs (not the watered down stuff people normally buy) is no joke. 15 rounds of 200gr pills moving at 1200fps out of a G20 isn’t to shabby.

Add the extra barrel length on a 16” carbine? Even better.

They hit hard and they penetrate deep.

Add those numbers to the ability to swap mags between a takedown carbine that fits in a daypack and the pistol on your hip? That sounds like a great choice for a backwoods/hiking setup that can cover a lot of bases.

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5 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I don’t have 10mm anything, so no one pissed in my Cheerios. I just hate declarative statements based on one persons frame of reference.

Lots of people trust 10mm in the woods for bear and other large animals. Lots of people use 10mm to hunt and to put down big animals.

Full house Norma 10mm at original design specs (not the watered down stuff people normally buy) is no joke. 15 rounds of 200gr pills moving at 1200fps out of a G20 isn’t to shabby.

Add the extra barrel length on a 16” carbine? Even better.

They hit hard and they penetrate deep.

Add those numbers to the ability to swap mags between a takedown carbine that fits in a daypack and the pistol on your hip? That sounds like a great choice for a backwoods/hiking setup that can cover a lot of bases.

Sure and I agree with you...  But the premise is... while it is cool... it is a horrible business idea... here is why.

When a company has a tough enough time justifying creating blocks to take Beretta or Sig mags... what makes you think they are going to...

1. Build a carbine in 10mm... which will sell MINISCULE numbers...  Keep in mind, they will have to redesign the entire gun and the mag well to now accept LARGE frame glock mags.

2. Attract Glock 20 owners to buy it.

Yes... it is cool... but the market is minuscule.  

There are far more people carrying a 44 magnum and a proper hunting gun than a Glock 20 WHO WANT a woods gun in 10mm.

To add to it... one of reasons PC Carbine exists is that it takes SEcurity 9/SR9 mags.  And it can also take other mags.

There is no quick swap for different calibers... it means brand new design.  Ruger does not make a 10mm semi auto gun... 

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1. It’s the same size magwell that you need for .45 Glock mags. If they are planning on making it for .45, then they can easily make it for 10mm.

2. That’s the easy part. 10mm fans are a cult. They seek out anything 10mm and buy it.

Ruger doesn’t make Glocks either. They make a gun that takes Glock mags.

Fishnut wasn’t saying it’s the greatest offering for hunting. He was saying that this carbine in 10mm would be a better choice for what he wants it for than the same carbine in 9mm and he wished they would make it.

Then everyone said he was wrong because in their minds they couldn’t see the same use for it that he does.

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6 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

1. It’s the same size magwell that you need for .45 Glock mags. If they are planning on making it for .45, then they can easily make it for 10mm.

2. That’s the easy part. 10mm fans are a cult. They seek out anything 10mm and buy it.

Ruger doesn’t make Glocks either. They make a gun that takes Glock mags.

Fishnut wasn’t saying it’s a great offering for hunting. He was saying that this carbine in 10mm would be a better choice for what he wants it for than the same carbine in 9mm. 

Then everyone said he was wrong because in their minds they couldn’t see the same use for it that he does.

To be fair, I don't think anyone was saying he was WRONG... at least I didn't.  I merely asked the question as to why hunt with 10mm when you can hunt with a rifle?  Unless there were states where you can hunt with pistol caliber carbine but not rifle.

Beyond that, when you have much better for the job pistol or straight walled cartridges to hunt with in an AR platform... the only reason I see to hunt with a theoretical 10mm carbine is like you said... if you carry a G20.... in which case, it is a very very small market and in my opinion, downgrading in ballistics for 1 or 2 theoretical rounds that you are going to shoot on a hunt or in self defense against a bear or whatnot... does not make sense to simply have a common magazine.  We are not talking zombie deer and bears right?

I am quite aware that 10mm guys are a cult... and I LOVE 10mm... but commercially, it is a failure and a near guaranteed failure to engineer a new gun around 10mm, which would be dependent on a 45.

From my conversations with the engineers who designed the gun... a caliber change is not that simple... and knowing the guys in the corporate suite... don't expect it unless it can be profitable. 

We already had quite a few pistol caliber carbines, and don't recall any in 10mm.... heck, try finding an AR pistol caliber upper in 10mm. =)

But I will pry and see if I can get an answer on 10mm if it is in the works. 

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2 hours ago, Maksim said:

The question is....  where can you hunt with a 10mm carbine that you can't hunt with a 223, etc?  If you are going to have a rifle... get a rifle. 

In NH handgun hunting is legal only for a few calibers. 10 mm is the only semi-auto handgun round that is legal. 

If ruger made a 10mm I could have a rifle and handgun that share mags and ammo both legal to hunt deer with. 

As far as shot distance as you mentioned, I basically live in white mountian national forest. There are very few areas that have a clearing of 50 yards or more. 

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1 minute ago, fishnut said:

In NH handgun hunting is legal only for a few calibers. 10 mm is the only semi-auto handgun round that is legal. 

If ruger made a 10mm I could have a rifle and handgun that share mags and ammo both legal to hunt deer with. 

As far as shot distance as you mentioned, I basically live in white mountian national forest. There are very few areas that have a clearing of 50 yards or more. 

Thanks.

Is there any prohibition on rifle hunting? ie NJ?  

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7 hours ago, Maksim said:

Ruger does not make a 10mm semi auto gun... 

False

Ruger 6739 SR1911 10mm:

https://ruger.com/products/sr1911Target/specSheets/6739.html

6 hours ago, Maksim said:

To heck, try finding an AR pistol caliber upper in 10mm. =) 

There are quite a few companies making 10mm AR upper and lowers, Olympic Arms, New Frontier Armory, QC10, Ghost, Moriarti Arms, APF Armory, there’s more but I don’t feel like typing them all... Hell, Brownells has all the parts, as does Midway, to build your own. That was just a Google search for “10mm AR uppers”.

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9 hours ago, Maksim said:

The question is....  where can you hunt with a 10mm carbine that you can't hunt with a 223, etc?  If you are going to have a rifle... get a rifle. 

Indiana...

There are states that only allow straight wall cartridges for hunting.  

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Let's be realistic here.  The industry is pushing HARD for the latest and greatest ANYTHING.  Whether it's a caliber, a rifle or an accessory.  The industry has slowed to a crawl since 45 is in office.  So, they are pushing for 10mm AND 300 BLK AND magazine feed shotguns AND optics on pistols.  Why?  To make you buy something else.  

So, the 10mm will not catch on.  It is too expensive, too much recoil AND doesn't do anything better.  

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