GRIZ 3,365 Posted April 19, 2019 20 hours ago, Underdog said: There are any number of dirtbags and criminals arrested with other charges as well, but the ONE case that comes to mind is the one again by Bryan Aitkins. There was an Eagles player that was arrested and others with loaded guns with HP as well. That was tongue and cheek... Quite possibly however those laws should not put limits on citizens unless they are aware of them through a reasonable avenue, such as reading about NJ gun laws. Aitken's problem started when he said something stupid that worried his mother causing her to call the police as she was concerned for his welfare. Josh Huff's problem resulted from his decision to smoke grass while speeding. Like Forrest Gump said "stupid is as stupid does". There was a firearm involved in the cases you mention. No one has ever posted an example of some one being arrested ONLY for possession of a hollow point or possession of a "high capacity" magazine. There's always a gun involved. I've said before and I'll say it again I'm not justifying or supporting NJ's stupid gun laws. You seem to think I am. Ignorance of the law is not am excuse. One needs to educate themselves on malum prohibitum laws, laws that make things illegal just because they passed a law making it so. Should we have mandated classes given by the state where all the laws are explained and we can't leave until we pass a test? Of course not. If you are going to be involved with something it behooves you to educate yourself about any laws applicable to that activity. I have very little knowledge of hunting laws. Why? I don't hunt. When I used to lobster I knew the minimum size was 3 3/8". You seek to think that if I got caught with a 3" lobster that should be okay. If you're going to be involved with guns you need to educate yourself about the gun laws. If you don't fully understand something go ahead and err on the side of caution if it makes you feel better. Or you can not have guns and not worry about gun laws. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted April 19, 2019 20 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: It was light on details, but NJ2AS assisted a case with a similar situation (officer noticed a hollow point on floor of vehicle, used that as basis for probable cause): https://www.nj2as.org/lgbtq_woman_arrested_denied_lawyer_and_medical_treatment_over_legal_firearms This case is very light on details. There are a lot of things claimed in the link. Woman is held under duress for 10 hours, held incommunicado, denied legal counsel, and when she does get an attorney he advises her to cop a plea and take a year in prison? What kind of lawyer did she have? There's more to this story the NJ2AS doesn't relate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted April 23, 2019 I find the Revell case a good example where common sense did not prevail and those in authority marched forward... https://www.leagle.com/decision/infco20100322054 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted April 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, Shane45 said: I find the Revell case a good example where common sense did not prevail and those in authority marched forward... https://www.leagle.com/decision/infco20100322054 I agree the Revell case shows a lack of common sense considering his situation. A similar situation could happen if you're driving from VA to say Vermont. That can be done in one day. If your car breaks down in NJ and you're required to stay overnight for repairs you can possibly find yourself in the same boat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/19/2019 at 1:03 PM, GRIZ said: This case is very light on details. There are a lot of things claimed in the link. Woman is held under duress for 10 hours, held incommunicado, denied legal counsel, and when she does get an attorney he advises her to cop a plea and take a year in prison? What kind of lawyer did she have? There's more to this story the NJ2AS doesn't relate. Yes, that is quite weird... Have not heard of that one... so what was the actual truth? The case was from 2016... what was the result? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted April 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maksim said: what was the result? Pardoned by Christie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sevenshot 98 Posted April 24, 2019 I'm getting error code 22 trying to load NJ firearms FAQs but the loaded mag question was on that page as being a firearm when I checked it prior to moving up there so this is maybe 2013. I had never heard of Nappen until I joined this forum, which was a few years later. When I first read it on the FAQs and asked a retired NJ or NY (can't remember which state) cop living in Virginia about it, he was fully aware and in support of the loaded mag shenanigans and he maybe retired 2010 or so. His exact words were, "it's not my job to interpret the laws. I would arrest then let a judge decide." He was very entrenched in his opinion on loaded mags sans firearms. I think it would be hard to link his strong position to a Nappen quote. in maybe 2016 I talked to another NJ cop about it. He was also aware, but told me all NJ gun laws are designed to easily prove intent if a crime does occur. He wouldn't arrest solely on a loaded mag but said not all officers see it that way. anyway, so the lesson I took from this was even if you know you aren't doing anything illegal, that won't stop you from being arrested, missing work, and having to spend money on an expensive lawyer. Be safe up there. you all can only dream about what the NC forum complains about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sevenshot 98 Posted April 24, 2019 https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml unloaded is specifically mentioned here as a requirement in transporting. If anyone knows the specific punishment for not following that specific requirement then that would shed some light on it. also the NJ firearms FAQs loaded bu has been changed. It now says: "How do you transport firearms? Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported. Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console." https://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted April 24, 2019 Still waiting for the case where a loaded magazine was deemed to be a loaded gun. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 819 Posted April 24, 2019 All these so called issues Nappen brings up equate to $$$$$$ for him.....if this situation ever gets fixed here it will be back to chasing ambulances and defending DWI's for the guy who makes a living off of the unfortunate law biding citizen of NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted April 24, 2019 I'm sick of his fear mongering. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 819 Posted April 24, 2019 How else can he put food on the table....much like some others on here who pray on us with their pod casts for $$$$. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bennj 215 Posted April 26, 2019 I take precautions too, i.e. follow the law. On the way to GSSC my loaded mags are kept in my range bag with my handguns and ammo, in the trunk. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted April 26, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 10:07 AM, Sevenshot said: Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console." I doubt any upland or deer hunter in the state of New Jersey has ever followed this guideline in the last century. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dilbert1967 145 Posted April 26, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 12:08 AM, Maksim said: What club is this? So this question was asked several days ago and was never answered. Four posts after it was asked, I guess someone attempted to answer but didn't finish their response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted April 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Parker said: I doubt any upland or deer hunter in the state of New Jersey has ever followed this guideline in the last century. True dat! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted April 27, 2019 The answer is you need to make your own judgement call. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted April 28, 2019 I use to load my mags before heading to the range.... before all this crap started. Now I wait till I get there. I have a Lulu so I can load a mag in about 10-15 seconds. 20 if I have fumble fingers that day. I figure more to loose then gain. Just to prove a point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted April 28, 2019 It's ironic that the best time for a criminal to rob someone's guns would be while that person was going to of from the range... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted April 28, 2019 On 4/26/2019 at 11:48 AM, dilbert1967 said: So this question was asked several days ago and was never answered. Four posts after it was asked, I guess someone attempted to answer but didn't finish their response. I chose not to answer. I'm a probationary member that has to be voted in to become a full member. It's a little early for me to start rocking the boat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nuclearheli 40 Posted May 2, 2019 If your interested in what the firearms unit has to say read the Email they sent me back in 2017. 2 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, nuclearheli said: If your interested in what the firearms unit has to say read the Email they sent me back in 2017. Good enough for me! Thanks for posting that. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted May 2, 2019 Where the @nuclearheli you bin hide'n dat? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kman 56 Posted May 2, 2019 See, it's totally clear, right? Since the state never defined what "loaded" means, it means to you whatever you want it to mean. It means to the police officer searching your gear on the side of the road whatever he/she wants it to mean. It means to the prosecutor deciding whether to press charges whatever he wants it to mean. To the judge hearing your case, it is a stupid question to begin with, since the judge probably knows no more than what he/she saw in a bunch of movies, which always get it wrong anyhow. Of course it's loaded. God only knows what it means to the jury. To your boss, who hears you got arrested, it means something very, very bad. To your accountant, after all is said and done, it means your savings is no longer "loaded" but is surely empty! See? Absolutely, totally clear!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted May 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, kman said: See, it's totally clear, right? Since the state never defined what "loaded" means, it means to you whatever you want it to mean. It means to the police officer searching your gear on the side of the road whatever he/she wants it to mean. It means to the prosecutor deciding whether to press charges whatever he wants it to mean. To the judge hearing your case, it is a stupid question to begin with, since the judge probably knows no more than what he/she saw in a bunch of movies, which always get it wrong anyhow. Of course it's loaded. God only knows what it means to the jury. To your boss, who hears you got arrested, it means something very, very bad. To your accountant, after all is said and done, it means your savings is no longer "loaded" but is surely empty! See? Absolutely, totally clear!!!! I feel sorry for you! NJSP said "NJ does not define what flash suppressor is." NJSP also said, "No restriction from maintaining loaded magazines as long as they are not in the firearm!" You heard it from the horses mouth yet you still wish to believe a lie! The PRNJ wants more people like you! 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted May 2, 2019 2 hours ago, kman said: See, it's totally clear, right? Since the state never defined what "loaded" means, it means to you whatever you want it to mean. It means to the police officer searching your gear on the side of the road whatever he/she wants it to mean. It means to the prosecutor deciding whether to press charges whatever he wants it to mean. To the judge hearing your case, it is a stupid question to begin with, since the judge probably knows no more than what he/she saw in a bunch of movies, which always get it wrong anyhow. Of course it's loaded. God only knows what it means to the jury. To your boss, who hears you got arrested, it means something very, very bad. To your accountant, after all is said and done, it means your savings is no longer "loaded" but is surely empty! See? Absolutely, totally clear!!!! Now that's fear mongering. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted May 2, 2019 9 hours ago, nuclearheli said: If your interested in what the firearms unit has to say read the Email they sent me back in 2017. Anyone ever send a copy of this to Nappen? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted May 2, 2019 7 hours ago, kman said: See, it's totally clear, right? Since the state never defined what "loaded" means, it means to you whatever you want it to mean. It means to the police officer searching your gear on the side of the road whatever he/she wants it to mean. It means to the prosecutor deciding whether to press charges whatever he wants it to mean. To the judge hearing your case, it is a stupid question to begin with, since the judge probably knows no more than what he/she saw in a bunch of movies, which always get it wrong anyhow. Of course it's loaded. God only knows what it means to the jury. To your boss, who hears you got arrested, it means something very, very bad. To your accountant, after all is said and done, it means your savings is no longer "loaded" but is surely empty! See? Absolutely, totally clear!!!! Huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nuclearheli 40 Posted May 2, 2019 8 hours ago, PK90 said: Where the @nuclearheli you bin hide'n dat? Hey PK90, what's up. Where have I been hide'n? Away from this craziness. Just doing business, supporting gun owners, shooting matches and enjoying myself. Life is too short to debate the same old thing to death. There are so many lawyers and experts here nobody needs the factual opinion of a small part time dealer like me. Just servicing my customers and enjoying life. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kman 56 Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, W2MC said: Anyone ever send a copy of this to Nappen? The police are many times THE WORST source of legal advice on gun laws. What they say is legal or not doesn't mean anything! Fundamentally, no one has an answer, which is why these discussion threads go out of control EVERY TIME. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites