PA Resident, NJ FID

[lts1ow 0]

Current status: NJ resident homeowner, FID card. I also have a apartment in PA. 

If I switch residency to my apartment, while maintaining the NJ house, I assume my FID is no longer valid, and all my firearms would need to travel to PA. This would mean no traveling to ranges in NJ from the NJ house anymore I would think. However, traveling from PA to a NJ range is legal. 

Correct? 

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you become a PA resident and have address changed on your NJ FID you still have all privileges the NJ FID give you.  

If your NJ house is your 2nd residence there is no reason you can't leave guns there, go to and from range from your NJ residence, or transport firearms from your PA to NJ residence or vice versa.

[lts1ow 0]

Just now, GRIZ said:

If you become a PA resident and have address changed on your NJ FID you still have all privileges the NJ FID give you.  

If your NJ house is your 2nd residence there is no reason you can't leave guns there, go to and from range from your NJ residence, or transport firearms from your PA to NJ residence or vice versa.

Well then, this certainly opens up stuff. 

Address change on FID process would be the same even though it would be a PA address? 

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 minute ago, lts1ow said:

Well then, this certainly opens up stuff. 

Address change on FID process would be the same even though it would be a PA address? 

 

 

Yes. You would go through NJSP if you're an out of state resident.  You would need to get PA driving license first as that's one of the blocks on the form.

[PK90 3,570]

No need to change anything. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

@PK90 is also correct.

[lts1ow 0]

So I could have a PA DL with a NJ FID card that reflects a different address? 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

Under Federal law if you legitimately have 2 residences in different states you can buy firearms in either state.  Federal law doesn't specify how much time you reside at each residence.

You can have a NJFID with an out of NJ address.

[lts1ow 0]

2 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Under Federal law if you legitimately have 2 residences in different states you can buy firearms in either state.  Federal law doesn't specify how much time you reside at each residence.

You can have a NJFID with an out of NJ address.

But the tax man does care. I know I can play the dual residency as per ATF right now but I want to be legit and pay PA taxes. 

[PK90 3,570]

You want to pay taxes? What "taxes" are you referring? Income tax, real-estate tax, sales tax?

ETA: You can reside in all 50 states, as well as a few places in one state. BTW, what does taxes have to do with a FPID or DL?

[Maksim 1,504]

10 minutes ago, lts1ow said:

But the tax man does care. I know I can play the dual residency as per ATF right now but I want to be legit and pay PA taxes. 

When it comes to IRS, it will simply be about where you spend the most time.

If you want to make it PA... which you should, there are more benefits.

As soon as you get your PA Drivers License you will feel like an American.... and will likely order your first Suppressor within days.

Technically, if you can provide that you are a PA resident, you don't even need DL and can prove it with lease documents, etc... but most dealers are not going to deal with it.

Beyond that, buying guns in PA with a PA DL is far easier... automated system for PICS... they put in DL number, read back info and generally approval right there. 

[PK90 3,570]

2 minutes ago, Maksim said:

...Technically, if you can provide that you are a PA resident, you don't even need DL and can prove it with lease documents, etc... but most dealers are not going to deal with it.

Beyond that, buying guns in PA with a PA DL is far easier... automated system for PICS... they put in DL number, read back info and generally approval right there. 

Lease documents to prove residency to a gun dealer is not allowed, unless you lease from the government.

[lts1ow 0]

Basic goal would be to acquire the lower tax bracket PA has on income tax while still working in NJ. That is my primary reason for being legit in my residency status. 

The secondary reason is to then acquire a PA LTCF and go back to legal carrying in PA. 
 

Trying to figure out what needs to change documents wise and how to go about it the easiest. And to be able to maintain having firearms legally in the NJ abode/while transporting. 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, lts1ow said:

Basic goal would be to acquire the lower tax bracket PA has on income tax while still working in NJ. That is my primary reason for being legit in my residency status. 

The secondary reason is to then acquire a PA LTCF and go back to legal carrying in PA. 
 

Trying to figure out what needs to change documents wise and how to go about it the easiest. And to be able to maintain having firearms legally in the NJ abode/while transporting. 

 

If that's your intent I would change driving license,  voter registration, and everything else to PA.  Also change the address on your NJ FID to the PA address.

If you do this the only thing that changes  as far as NJ is concerned is you can't buy a handgun in NJ.  You can:

1.  Still transport long guns unloaded all you want.

2.  Transport handguns unloaded and secured between any combination of your NJ residence. PA residence, and range.  Reasonable deviation applies here.  You can stop for gas, bathroom, something to eat.

3.  Keep handguns or long guns at your NJ residence.

4.  You can still buy long guns through a FFL in NJ.  This is really no change as all transfers between NJ residents have to be through a FFL.

And other things.

[Zeke 5,504]

Majority of time, or 6 months 1 day in pa. 

NY is cracking down on this, nJ is soon to follow. But I think they only go after big numbers players. Get a dL and switch over are your billing to the pa residence would be my suggestion. Change addy on fpid if you are overly concerned about hunting, or reasonable deviations to and from range or other domicile 

@GRIZ posted same time!

[lts1ow 0]

Yea I will need to make up a list of things that will require address changes etc. 

I work at least one day a week in PA so I am there Thurs evening thru Sunday evening, technically skirts the 183 requirement. 

Ironically the only hiccup will be getting my car/truck to pass PA emissions, NJ has em exempted. 

[45Doll 5,877]

OP: If I were you I'd FIRST be talking with an accounting and tax expert on how you are going to earn your income and where. Specifically, to make sure you don't end up placing yourself in a situation where you have to file both PA AND NJ income taxes.

I'd also want to know exactly how much I'd expect to save in state income tax to understand if it was really worthwhile.

As far as residency, if you own a house in NJ and also lease an apartment in PA you are a dual-state resident. As such you can have firearms you already own in either location, and transport will be subject to the laws of the state you're in at the time.

Leave your FID alone and buy firearms in NJ as a NJ resident. And if you have a reason to, buy firearms in PA as a PA resident. That is perfectly legal (PICS knows how to do it) although many PA FFLs don't want to bother with it.

Caveat: I do not know if an apartment scenario is equal to owning a home. Proof of residency may be more difficult. Owning a home definitely allows what I said. And with a home, it's also legal to get your PA resident LTCF providing the sheriff isn't opposed to granting it.

You can be a resident of any number of states. But you can only have one domicile. Search on and understand the difference, especially for tax purposes.

[lts1ow 0]

Yes, I will def be chatting with an accountant to be sure it makes financial sense. 

Renting a apartment does not qualify one for dual residency status in the eyes of the ATF so no dice on NFA items. 

Which is  the long term goal, would love a suppressor even if it lives in PA 

[Zeke 5,504]

Pretty sure Nj and Pa have an income tax agreement. Christie was going to squash it. 

https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/njit25.shtml

So basically not like Florida. 

[PK90 3,570]

32 minutes ago, lts1ow said:

... Renting a apartment does not qualify one for dual residency status in the eyes of the ATF so no dice on NFA items. 

?????

Sure it does. You just need a .gov doc with that address.

[45Doll 5,877]

49 minutes ago, lts1ow said:

Renting a apartment does not qualify one for dual residency status in the eyes of the ATF so no dice on NFA items. 

It sure does. Find and read ATF Ruling 2010-6 and associated documents. They even consider college students residents when they're living in a dorm.

"ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11 (definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. See also ATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or off-campus housing is located."

[lts1ow 0]

In my case it does not. I am not a college student. 

Unless as stated I got a gov document but IDK what doc I would get for that anyway. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

9 hours ago, lts1ow said:

Yes, I will def be chatting with an accountant to be sure it makes financial sense. 

Renting a apartment does not qualify one for dual residency status in the eyes of the ATF so no dice on NFA items. 

Which is  the long term goal, would love a suppressor even if it lives in PA 

So what I keep an apartment in 2 (or more) states?  Leasing an apartment is "establishing a residence".

[lts1ow 0]

The FFL I talked to who deals with a lot of dual resident folks said that just having a rental apartment is not sufficient for NFA items. 

[Maksim 1,504]

5 hours ago, lts1ow said:

The FFL I talked to who deals with a lot of dual resident folks said that just having a rental apartment is not sufficient for NFA items. 

is the FFL an actual FFL/SOT?

@FreedomSportsLLC  Can you clarify?

 

[FreedomSportsLLC 6]

We have dealt with this extensively due to our location right on the border of NJ and PA and selling NFA items to part time residents who do not possess a PA driver's license or state issued ID.

Though not in writing anywhere that we can find, we have been told the following consistently by different levels of people in the ATF.  We need proof of habitable property ownership (not land ownership - must be a house) in PA and evidence that it is currently lived in part time by the owner.  These documents are typically the most recent property tax bill and current utility statements in the name of the owner.  (This is evidence of not renting the property to a third party but rather it being used by the owner.) A lease document (even if accompanied by utility bills) is not sufficient evidence to facilitate a Title 2 transfer.

 

[lts1ow 0]

1 hour ago, Maksim said:

is the FFL an actual FFL/SOT?

@FreedomSportsLLC  Can you clarify?

 

Yes he is. 

Either way, I would rather do it all or not half way it. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, FreedomSportsLLC said:

We have dealt with this extensively due to our location right on the border of NJ and PA and selling NFA items to part time residents who do not possess a PA driver's license or state issued ID.

Though not in writing anywhere that we can find, we have been told the following consistently by different levels of people in the ATF.  We need proof of habitable property ownership (not land ownership - must be a house) in PA and evidence that it is currently lived in part time by the owner.  These documents are typically the most recent property tax bill and current utility statements in the name of the owner.  (This is evidence of not renting the property to a third party but rather it being used by the owner.) A lease document (even if accompanied by utility bills) is not sufficient evidence to facilitate a Title 2 transfer.

 

So if they have a PA driving license and live in an apartment in PA they're good to go?

[SJG 253]

PK 90 is correct. Any other conflicting posts are wrong. And by the way, if you change your DL to PA, you can get a NJ State Issued ID for firearms purposes and that, together with your FID Card, is all you need for N.J. 

[FreedomSportsLLC 6]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

So if they have a PA driving license and live in an apartment in PA they're good to go?

Yes a PA driver's license is evidence of PA residency.