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I was the victim of a NICS screw-up tonight. I went to my FFL to pick-up my latest acquisition - a S&W revolver (naturally) - and was denied based on a NICS violation.

My FFL will be contacting the NJSP firearms unit in the morning. In the meantime I sent the following message to the OAG...

 

I was unable to pick-up a revolver today because the NICS unit flagged the transaction as a NICS violation. According to my understanding and the NICS unit's own actions it was/is not.

On 3/21 I purchased a single revolver. This transaction was within the OGAM framework.

On 3/26 I exercised a Multiple Purchase Exemption and purchased two more revolvers. It is my understanding that this transaction is outside the OGAM framework and does not count toward OGAM purchases. This means that my next legal purchase of a single gun within that framework could be no sooner than 4/21.

I believe that I was denied NICS approval in error, based on the date I made the multiple purchase - 3/26, which, by the units very actions of approving the multiple sale 5 days after the single (OGAM) sale, indicate that multiple purchase exemption sales fall outside the framework of OGAM.

While this is only a matter of several days, it has a cascading effect on future purchases - one of which is already "in the pipeline" and which I had planned on picking up on 5/4. If their error stands I will not be able to do that.

I am a collector and it is important that I sometimes be able to act expeditiously. I work within the framework the legislature and governor have saddled us with - is it too much to ask those tasked with enforcing these rules to do the same?

Please expunge the NICS violation from my record and reset the OGAM clock so that I may pick up my current purchase ASAP.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Given the current administration, I'm sure the above will be like sending a message off into a black hole. Hopefully my FFL has better luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Wow.

Heh,  From what I recall, the exemption exempted the 30 day from THAT purchase... but would start 30 days then from that date?

An FFL chime in who had experience with this?

I suppose to keep permits alive need to do another OGAM Exemption for the one that would be pushed back?

 

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Unfortunately I have experience with this. And I concluded that their computer algorithm does the following:

Exercise a P2P. The 30 day clock starts.

Exercise a MHE in less than 30 days from the P2P. No violation, and the 30 day clock resets. You're exempt from the PREVIOUS purchase.

Exercise a P2P within 30 days of the MHE and WHAM! Violation. Your P2P is NOT exempt from the MHE date.

This is why if you have a P2P you did not allocate to a MHE, exercise it BEFORE you do the MHE.

This is my 'theory' based on actual experience. I have not seen anything in writing to back it up. But it's apparently how it works. The MHE will not trigger a violation within 30 days of a P2P purchase. But the reverse will.

Every time I followed this method it worked.

Also, the actual criteria and execution of a MHE has never, to the best of my knowledge, been advertised publicly.

Pizza Bob: let us know how you make out.

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2 hours ago, Golf battery said:

Bob.  There it is.  In your face.  Just remember that PA is about 2k feet from your front door step.    Its time.  

We looked at some places along the river in Bob's area and then in Frenchtownish...

Being able to see "Freedom" less than 100 yards away from you but not being able to do nothing about it... just screams "FU."

That is the ultimate torture.

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27 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Bob needs more revolvers?

Bob always needs more revolvers.

This really throws a monkey wrench in the works as there is another one backed up behind the one I was going to pick-up last night. Drat! Delayed another week. Fortunately, I have a very understanding FFL, who was laboring under the same misconception that I was.

I won't be able to share with you guys until the first week in June. It will be interesting when I do - promise.

Have to go do my penance now.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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1 minute ago, Pizza Bob said:

Bob always needs more revolvers.

This really throws a monkey wrench in the works as there is another one backed up behind the one I was going to pick-up last night. Drat! Delayed another week. Fortunately, I have a very understanding FFL, who was laboring under the same misconception that I was.

I won't be able to share with you guys until the first week in June. It will be interesting when I do - promise.

Have to go do my penance now.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Good luck!

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9 minutes ago, PK90 said:

My understanding is the way 45Doll has posted above. There is a long thread on here about this when OGAM was first initiated. 

Yes, that is the way that I've come to understand it with all the input from the board. Delays me about a week, so no biggie.

You certainly had the right idea about getting out. We are just at the considering stage of moving across the river. My SO may not have considered it in the past, but now that she is also retired, and Murphy has his hand in her pocket, she's all for it. We have a rather difficult set of parameters to meet in considering a home. It's hard to wrap my head around moving 17 years accumulation (as long as we've been in this house), I think there are still some cartons from our move here.  Plus I have another house I have to empty and sell out in the State College, PA area - only 3 miles from a premiere PAGC range - in case anybody on here is interested. LOL.

Learn from my mistakes people.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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11 minutes ago, PK90 said:

After a few yard sales, I filled a 30 yard dumpster and started fresh.

I am seriously considering a 30 yard dump too....but I agree.  It's time

 

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

How long does the OGAM approval process take? Do another for the upcoming purchases. Not all have to be picked up on the same day, nor ever at all if you change your mind.

I constantly have permits in process

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10 hours ago, Pizza Bob said:

I constantly have permits in process

But the real question is, especially for any 'move', how many gun safes do you have?

No need to answer that. Just a humorous question.

P.S. The fun part about MHEs is walking out of your FFL with a milk crate full of pistol cases. :diablo:

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On 4/23/2019 at 8:55 PM, 45Doll said:

 

Exercise a P2P. The 30 day clock starts.

Exercise a MHE in less than 30 days from the P2P. No violation, and the 30 day clock resets. You're exempt from the PREVIOUS purchase.

Exercise a P2P within 30 days of the MHE and WHAM! Violation. Your P2P is NOT exempt from the MHE date.

This is why if you have a P2P you did not allocate to a MHE, exercise it BEFORE you do the MHE.

This is my 'theory' based on actual experience. I have not seen anything in writing to back it up. But it's apparently how it works. The MHE will not trigger a violation within 30 days of a P2P purchase. But the reverse will.

 

 

^^^^^This is how it works, using an an exemption restarts the 30 day clock on any non exempt transfers.........

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Its funny...  We use to run Exemptions + 1 extra by first running the singe purchase (making sure OGAM was good) then immediately running the exemption and it was fine.

About 8 or so months ago we were told we needed to do it in reverse.... First exemption then Single purchase.

End of the day customer still got his Exemption + 1 but just needed to do it backwards.

Personally i still think it should be ran 1 + Exemption but thats me.

 

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15 minutes ago, remixer said:

Its funny...  We use to run Exemptions + 1 extra by first running the singe purchase (making sure OGAM was good) then immediately running the exemption and it was fine. - This is how I've always done it and not had a problem

About 8 or so months ago we were told we needed to do it in reverse.... First exemption then Single purchase. - Did they send out an email on this? I haven't heard this, but then it's been a little while since I've done an exemption.

End of the day customer still got his Exemption + 1 but just needed to do it backwards.

Personally i still think it should be ran 1 + Exemption but thats me.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

 

Thats how it should be done IMO but i dont control nics :)

There was no Email or Mass update, It was a conversation me and a bunch other FFL's / Dealers were having in a chat room when one of us came across this exact problem.

So we called and confirmed with NJSP

 

 

 

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