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dajonga

Son wants to join USAF....

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My son is a junior in high school. He is currently enrolled at the Academy of Law and Public Safety, a full-time academy run by Ocean County Vo-Tec. It is basically cop high school. He wears a uniform, he marches, he does PT, he has learned handcuffing, he wears a duty belt with a blue gun. He will graduate HS with nearly 30 OCC credits under his belt. 

He is a smart boy, but IMHO is not really traditional college material yet. He took the ASVAB and got a 77.

He wants to join the USAF for 6 years to do some kind of intelligence work. He likes the sound of Cryptologic Linguistics.

Both his grandfathers and a great uncle served in USAF in the 60's, but a lot has changed since then.

Any advice from those who have served or parents who have gone thru this process?

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I have some experience working with people in that MOS.

Keep in mind that's a very cerebral job.  Not for him if he's more action oriented.  The most exciting thing about these jobs are that some of them are aircrew jobs so you get to do some flying and collect flight pay.  You're pretty much glued to a console while in the air though.  He will have to learn a foreign language.  I don't know the USAF requirement but the Army requires an ASVAB of 91.

The reason the USAF wants him for 6 years is the length of training.  It might take 2 years to get him trained up to put him to work.

If he stays in USAF this is one of the jobs you can make rank quickly if you're good.  An advantage to pursuing this type of job in the Army is you could eventually qualify and get commissioned as a warrant officer.  A warrant officer in intelligence is more of a manager than a worker. Much better pay and more prestige than being enlisted.   Not that there's anything wrong with being enlisted.  No warrant officers in the USAF.

There's plenty of job possibilities with defense contractors and the Federal government if he gets out after 6 or even 25 years.

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30 minutes ago, BobA said:

He'll ETS from the Air Force with a Veteran's preference and points for any civil service test.  Combine that with everything else and he's made. 

Veteran preference in NJ is absolute.  The way they make up the hiring lists is first all Disabled Vets who pass the test get hired, then all Vets who pass the test, and lastly all non-vets who pass the test.

The Federal government is not that good.  10 extra points for a Disabled Vet and 5 points for a Vet on the test last I looked.  The Federal government also has programs at times where only Vets can apply for a certain job.

The Army has a program for crypto linguists and other MOSs where you can apply and get accepted by a defense contractor before you get out for jobs such as this.

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So, I’m from along line of US Navy guys. Every Uncle, father, grandfather, etc. myself included. My son, choose the Air Force, he did 6 years active and has one year to go to retire from the reserves after 20. Great move on his part, he was smart, but he was a bit lazy, military put him on the right track, I could never be prouder of him.

My daughter (2 years older) on the other hand, went to college. I felt better with my son in the AF, then my daughter at college. His early CO’s, sent notes and cards assuring us of his progress. My wife had to lie to the college to get information as far as how my daughter was doing (parents do, what parents gotta do).

A piece of advice, when he goes to San Antonio for boot, start making plans for you to be there for his graduation. It’s a big deal, you don’t want to miss it. 

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I served and retired after 22 years in the Army.  The ASVAB I'm familiar with had  many scores, not just one.  For example, there were scores for GM (general mechanical), CT (clerical technical), MM (mechanical maintenance), GT (general technical), etc.  I guess things change.

Basic training for Air Force personnel is at Lackland AFB, TX.  Depending on the Intel position, he'll likely either go to Fort Huachuca, AZ or Fort Meade, MD. Unless the Air Force opened up their own school.  Jobs are pretty good after the military.  We have Intel Subject Matter Experts on the training teams in my program.

I wish him the best of luck in whether he decides.

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Hmmm... I always like to hear about jobs I'm not familiar with. So, I just looked it up... that sounds like super interesting work.. kind of sleuthy, with a nice dose of translation tossed in!

Does he currently have proficiency in a 2nd language? If not, it sounds (if the links I saw are still good) like it also requires a score of 100 on the Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB). Here's a link that tells a bit about that test with some good advice on how to prepare for it. Sounds like just tightening up on English (grammar/syntax) is helpful... though, who knows, maybe one of those rapid language courses (Berlitz, etc.) in a second language would be helpful as well? After all, he's still a junior - he has the summer ahead of him! Languages are a funny thing... the more exposure you get, the easier it is to pick up new ones... it's almost like it exercises and strengthens the language part of your brain!

Link: https://www.thebalancecareers.com/defense-language-aptitude-battery-3332702

Good luck to him! 

 

 

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Thank you all for the well wishes. We are very excited.

The recruiter says the tech school for foreign languages is in Santa Monica, Ca. Life is tough!

Mrs. Peel.... Thanks for the DLAB info. He does not currently speak anything but English, but he speaks it well. He wanted to go in as an MP to then be a cop after the USAF, but the recruiter told him his ASVAB score was good enough to get him a really cool job in intel. The boy really surprised us when he got turned on by the Crypto Linguistics stuff. After USAF, the boy is now thinking FBI, NSA type work. Still a cop, but on a federal scale.

Nucrunner.... Good advice on San Antonio. I was born at Laughlin AFB in Del Rio in '69. My dad was a USAF captain and flew T-38s as an instructor. Might be fun to looksee around the area whilst down there. Heck, my folks might come along for the graduation.

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@dajonga he will still need a bachelor's degree to get into the FBI or any other criminal investigator job.  He could knock out most, of not all of that,  while he's on active duty.  There are jobs he will be well qualified for with overseas assignments a good possibility.

It's been some time since I took the DLAB but speaking a language does not help you.  If it's still what it was the DLAB uses a made up language.  The higher score you get the more difficult the language they will train you.  This is the reason for the 6 year commitment.

https://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty

This shows the the difficulty levels.  Score at the lower end of the DLAB and you'll be trained in a Category I language (Spanish, French, etc).  That school is about 6 months.  While the needs of the service are paramount if you score at the top end you'll wind up training in a Category V language (Chinese. Arabic, etc.).  Those schools are over 18 months.

DLI is actually located farther up the coast in Monterey, CA.  That's by Carmel by the Sea where Clint Eastwood was mayor.  I've been there and had people who went there work for me.  The whole aura of DLI is like a college campus...with mandatory PT.  They really don't want military BS interfere with learning your language.

Tell him not to worry about language school.  The military has been doing this for years. If the DLAB says he is capable of learning Chinese, he's capable of learning Chinese.  The military does not like to waste money.

@Mrs. Peel immersion in a language is a good thing.  Speaking from my personal experience after 6 months in Germany I could hold a basic conversation in German.  A friend of mind that spoke Catonese at a college grad level spoke it at a professional level (doctor, lawyer, doctorate level scientist) after 5 years in Hong Kong.  After 5 years in Beijing he spoke Mandarin at the same level.

I wouldn't waste money doing language training now.  The only exception is if he qualified for a Category I language like Spanish and he took one of those 6 months living with a family in Guatemala deals. Worked for a friend of mine.

Also remember DLI will teach you "proper" language.  Different countries who speak the same language will have different words for the same thing.

 

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I agree with griz.  Unless the scores have changed a 77 asvab doesnt cut it for intel.  I know a 94 does.  In boot camp they took me  into a room and gave me and a few others another test.  More or less an iq test.  Later finding out that was to try to get me into intel.   The person i would directly ask is an air force recruiter.  Other than that. Its all guessing. 

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Much to discuss with only a keyboard to say it.  If I can give three pieces of advice to your son it's to save your money, take advantage of EVERYTHING they offer and to travel as much as possible. 

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On 5/4/2019 at 6:30 PM, dilbert1967 said:

The ASVAB I'm familiar with had  many scores, not just one.  For example, there were scores for GM (general mechanical), CT (clerical technical), MM (mechanical maintenance), GT (general technical), etc.  I guess things change.

Nope, still the way it’s done and this is all still relevant. Those “composite scores” aka “line scores”, are the critical entrance factors for what MOS he can enlist for. For example, GT is the most important for those seeking to be officers. 

Make sure to confirm his qualifications with the recruiter prior to him heading to MEPS for enlistment. There will be a bit of a personnel hand off when he cannot talk to his recruiter before signing docs and taking the oath. If it were my boy, I’d want to make sure he’s qualified for the job they are promising AND that there’s a slot available for it.

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Wj.  Totally agree.  The recruiter will promise you the world.  Due your homework.  If its not in writing.  Its all hearsay and subject to change at their discretion.  Hey op.  Why not have your son join a military branch like the Marine Corps:o

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5 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Wj.  Totally agree.  The recruiter will promise you the world.  Due your homework.  If its not in writing.  Its all hearsay and subject to change at their discretion.  Hey op.  Why not have your son join a military branch like the Marine Corps:o

Cause Paris Island sucks!:mutley:

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5 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Wj.  Totally agree.  The recruiter will promise you the world.  Due your homework.  If its not in writing.  Its all hearsay and subject to change at their discretion.  Hey op.  Why not have your son join a military branch like the Marine Corps:o

 

23 minutes ago, weekend_junkie said:

Nope, still the way it’s done and this is all still relevant. Those “composite scores” aka “line scores”, are the critical entrance factors for what MOS he can enlist for. For example, GT is the most important for those seeking to be officers. 

Make sure to confirm his qualifications with the recruiter prior to him heading to MEPS for enlistment. There will be a bit of a personnel hand off when he cannot talk to his recruiter before signing docs and taking the oath. If it were my boy, I’d want to make sure he’s qualified for the job they are promising AND that there’s a slot available for it.

I will echo what they both said above regarding the offering of a position.  The recruiter will tell you anything you want to hear.  However, it is at the MEPS, towards the end of the process, where someone will sit down with your son and tell him what he qualified for and what openings are available.  You usually have at least two choices, sometimes more.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

 

Cause Paris Island sucks!:mutley:

Friggin best time of my life.  Pt.  Two weeks of shooting.  3 meals a day.  Loved it. 16 weeks of fun.  It was easy if you are in outstanding shape.  And i was.  My body is falling apart now. Ughh. 

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On 5/6/2019 at 12:07 AM, JohnnyB said:

Mine too!  I would not survive it today! Old age does that to us all.  NOT FAIR!:mad:

You’d be surprised what can pass for a standard these days. There are plenty of thoroughbred programs, but the army still needs cooks and fuel truck drivers... and they all “pass” basic training.

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1 hour ago, weekend_junkie said:

You’d be surprised what can pass for a standard these days. There are plenty of thoroughbred programs, but the army still needs cooks and fuel truck drivers... and they all “pass” basic training.

Yes but the physical fitness standards are much higher today than they used to be in the Army.

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On 5/4/2019 at 5:07 PM, dajonga said:

Yes, he will make E3 after 20 weeks.

Just got off the phone with the recruiter. We meet soon to put the wheels in motion. This is what the boy wants.

Wish us luck!

I do not regret much in my life or tje choices i made - i however fully REGRET that i never enlisted - long stupid family story.

Make sure he does it - don't let him get to my age and be regretful.  

 

Best of luck to Him.....

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6 hours ago, weekend_junkie said:

You’d be surprised what can pass for a standard these days. There are plenty of thoroughbred programs, but the army still needs cooks and fuel truck drivers... and they all “pass” basic training.

Also keep in mind something I've said before. The ultimate purpose of the military is to kill people and break things or support those that do.  Delta, Special Forces, and Rangers all need support elements consisting of cooks, supply types, and clerks that take care of things.  Don't dismiss what many refer to as the "ash and trash".  They are the ones making sure the Special Operator gets fed, supplied, and paid.  They make a significant contribution.

The SEALS who killed Osama Bin Laden would never have gotten there if it wasn't for some fuel truck driver filling the tanks on the helicopters.

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On 5/5/2019 at 10:18 PM, Golf battery said:

Friggin best time of my life.  Pt.  Two weeks of shooting.  3 meals a day.  Loved it. 16 weeks of fun.  It was easy if you are in outstanding shape.  And i was.  My body is falling apart now. Ughh. 

Most fun you never wanna have again. Errr

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In an effort to be helpful. What kind of advice are you looking for?

Some general advice:

Make sure he does his homework on the job he wants to do. Is it garunteed? What happens if he doesnt pass the tests to meet that job? Does he get reclassified? The military is a great place to learn a skill and network with some amazing people. What are his goals? Does he plan on going to college eventually and plan to use the military to assist in that goal? Does he want to use the military to gain experience and do something similar in the civilian world? These are all things I used to tell my junior Marines to consider with life after the Corps, just in case the military career is not for them. I hear too often about people who join to serve, with no plan after enlistment then they get out and find their skills of slaying bodies not as marketable outside of law enforcement and security.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I do not regret much in my life or tje choices i made - i however fully REGRET that i never enlisted - long stupid family story.

Make sure he does it - don't let him get to my age and be regretful.  

 

Best of luck to Him.....

Agreed!

I tried to join the navy when I was a senior in high school in '88. The recruiter said "NO" to me when he learned I have asthma. Case closed.

So, last week my son's USAF recruiter, when he learns of my history, said that he would have asked for an EKG test to get me in. I was a competitive swimmer in high school, so I had the lung power. My son's recruiter says I could have easily made it thru basic.

I have regretted for 30 years that I never got to serve.....only to learn that I was not able to join because of a lazy recruiter.

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3 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I do not regret much in my life or tje choices i made - i however fully REGRET that i never enlisted - long stupid family story.

Make sure he does it - don't let him get to my age and be regretful.  

Exactly the same thing for me.

I went to college instead of enlisting, got married right after college, 3 kids later, and had a great career and was able to retire in my 50's. But looking back, I wish I had the experience in serving and probably would have found a interesting future in the military.

But, I didn't get any guidance or advice from my parents, and just winged it as I went. Thankfully, everything has worked out well. Just hit 39 years with wifey last week, and we haven't killed each other yet.... :hang:

I made sure to give my two boys lots of information and advice, so they could chart their own futures. Both are Eagle Scouts, but neither decided to follow-up and go into the military, even the reserves. Youngest son works for DHS and is pursuing a career in law enforcement.

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5 hours ago, dajonga said:

Agreed!

I tried to join the navy when I was a senior in high school in '88. The recruiter said "NO" to me when he learned I have asthma. Case closed.

So, last week my son's USAF recruiter, when he learns of my history, said that he would have asked for an EKG test to get me in. I was a competitive swimmer in high school, so I had the lung power. My son's recruiter says I could have easily made it thru basic.

I have regretted for 30 years that I never got to serve.....only to learn that I was not able to join because of a lazy recruiter.

 

Navy recruiters could afford to be lazy then.  They were still riding the surge of people who wanted to enlist after seeing Top Gun a couple of years earlier.

The Navy increased its active duty commitment to 8 years for those that qualified for flight school.  They had no problem filling enlisted jobs in Naval Aviation.  If they couldn't be pilots or NFOs there were plenty of guys who wanted any job where they were associated with Naval Aviation.  Even if it was just checking the air in the tires.  Recruiters filled other jobs with people hoping they could get assigned to a carrier.

"Top Gun" turned out to be the greatest recruiting advertisement the Navy ever had.  The producers of the movie tried to get a million dollars or so off the bill from the Navy for helping in the production by putting a Navy recruiting commercial at the beginning of the movie.  They pay for whatever it costs the service to do what they producers want.  IIRC they were paying  $15,000 an hour for F14 flight time.  Stuff like this provides free to the service additional training.

In response to the producers offer an Admiral responded thanks but no thanks.  The entire movie was a commercial for the Navy.

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<<<< UPDATE >>>>

My son ROCKED! MEPS last week and is now a sworn in member of the USAF Inactive Reserves.

This is what he wants. Even if his fancy intel dreams do not pan out, this is the path he has chosen and we are proud of him....be it with a rifle, a computer or a spatula.

He goes to his recruiter tomorrow for job counseling.

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Congratulations.  My father came from 0 money.  Basically a row home in bayonne.  Went into the airforce.  Used the gi bill.  Got his doctorate in finance.  Taught at rider university for awhile.  Opened a financial services business.  I worked with him.  Retired early and wealthy.  Mom and him are living the American dream.  Im a 3rd generation US citizen.  With hard work.  It can be done.  Your son can do it too. 

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