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revenger

daughter starting to drive

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Yes. Have her read this story and realize if she makes the wrong decisions this could happen to her too.

The inside info up in Sussex County is the driver was going 117 when he crashed. The night before (prom night) he was doing 119; someone photographed the speedometer and posted it to Snapchat.

Have her read all the comments too. The legal ramifications of this crash will last for years. Who knows how long the social and psychological scars will take to heal.

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45 minutes ago, revenger said:

Any tips or advice on car insurance requirements for when your kids start to drive.

I'm thinking about protecting myself and estate from lawsuits in case something happens. 

You're thinking correctly. First, get her a clunker to beat up. The odds are, most have some sort of fender bender their first year driving. Get a throw away car... too bad if she doesn't like it..

Second, put her on her own policy, not yours. Yes, it will cost more because of her age, but look at the big picture, is it better to spend an extra thousand up front for her insurance, or get sued for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands when she runs over a little old lady?

Third, SHE needs to pay for her gas and insurance, or pay for as much as possible. She needs skin in the game and realize driving is a privilege, and there are costs associated to it. Mommy and Daddy aren't her never ending bank account.

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Get a tracking app. I use life 360 (there are others) it uses the phone as a tracker. the basic one shows where she goes and how fast the car was going. The upgrade shows sudden fast starts and stops. 

There is also one you plug a unit into the car itself.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Sniper said:

You're thinking correctly. First, get her a clunker to beat up. The odds are, most have some sort of fender bender their first year driving. Get a throw away car... too bad if she doesn't like it..

Second, put her on her own policy, not yours. Yes, it will cost more because of her age, but look at the big picture, is it better to spend an extra thousand up front for her insurance, or get sued for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands when she runs over a little old lady?

Third, SHE needs to pay for her gas and insurance, or pay for as much as possible. She needs skin in the game and realize driving is a privilege, and there are costs associated to it. Mommy and Daddy aren't her never ending bank account.

Agreed 100%

My kid got my hand me down on his 17th bday at Thanksgiving. Which is a hand me down from my wife. A 2010 Scion Xb with 215k on it. It is a very reliable, efficient car. He is on our insurance until he is 18. Then he gets to own the car and his own insurance policy. 

Right now, he pays $100 month for his car insurance. He also pays for his own gas. 

As for CYA, we should probably have a +/- $2mil umbrella policy as long as he is on our auto policy, but I have neglected it.

 

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You guys are brutal to your kids --  do you actually realize how much car insurance is for a male driver under 26 years old with a perfect record?

My son bought himself a new car -- nissan versa note -- about $17,000 -- we went to check on insurance for him alone at 20 years old

1st off -- not all insurance companies will even insure a young driver -- his insurance, when we actually found an insurance company who would cover him, was $2500 every 6 months

Needless to say we bought the car together -- he paid and makes the payments but we are co-owners -- insurance for that same car on my insurance is $600 every 6 months

I don't know what you guys expect from your kids but things are not the same as they where when we where kids -- this insurance thing is unreasonable for them alone 

2 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Dash Camera with both front and passenger compartment views.  This way if someone tries to blame her for being inattentive or whatever because she's young - you have video proof.

Just remember that dash cam works both ways...

 

kids aren't saints and 26 in a 25 mph is speeding

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8 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

Just remember that dash cam works both ways...

kids aren't saints and 26 in a 25 mph is speeding

Oh of course.  But if you're facing a BS'er, it can definitely help...

Also makes sure your kid knows you're watching :D

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45 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

You guys are brutal to your kids --  do you actually realize how much car insurance is for a male driver under 26 years old with a perfect record?

Yes, I'm brutal... it's called being a parent and NOT their best friend.

 It's called making them responsible for their actions, and not let them hide under mom's apron.

45 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

My son bought himself a new car -- nissan versa note -- about $17,000 -- we went to check on insurance for him alone at 20 years old

Problem number 2. What did you expect insurance to be on a NEW car. He should be driving a $1500 clunker or a used hand me down, because he'll crash it, almost guaranteed.

45 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

I don't know what you guys expect from your kids but things are not the same as they where when we where kids -- this insurance thing is unreasonable for them alone 

Sorry, it's the same... hasn't changed much, except the price of the cars that some people think junior "deserves".

45 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

1st off -- not all insurance companies will even insure a young driver -- his insurance, when we actually found an insurance company who would cover him, was $2500 every 6 months

It's so expensive, because it's a new car that's financed... Get rid of collision.. oh wait, you can't, it's financed and costs a lot to fix.

45 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

kids aren't saints

You got that part correct, now apply that to the rest...

 

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Yes, things are not like they were when I was 17 in 1987. My parents carried my insurance for me. And I was clueless as to what real life cost. I am doing my son a huge favor by making him budget and pay for his own insurance and gas. My son also knows how to cook and he knows how to do laundry. My son has never been told he is a special special snowflake. He is a human and he is not special. If he wants to be special, he has to work for that.

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7 hours ago, Sniper said:

It's so expensive, because it's a new car that's financed... Get rid of collision.. oh wait, you can't, it's financed and costs a lot to fix.

 

We just purchased my daughter a new car and our agent put her as the driver on one of my older cars.

The insurance expense is not the collision on a new driver its the liability. I was going to drop the collision on that older car since its not even worth fixing it there was an accident that would require a repair over 2k.

They will have a fender bender at some point within the first year... Sometimes it makes more sense to just pay for the damage yourself and not report the claim... of course this depends on how much damage.

In regards to having them on their own policy.... Not sure that makes sense.... If they are under 18 and they have an accident even with their own policy some lawyer will find a way to drag the parents into the case.... IMO just best to list them as a driver on your policy and make sure you up the coverage... 

Umbrella is a great idea, I just emailed my Agent about adding it.

 

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1 hour ago, CMJeepster said:

I too vote for an umbrella liability policy.

Make it three votes. We don't have children in the house, but an umbrella policy ($1MM) is an excellent hedge that costs relatively little.

Children that drive are not the sole cause of any lawsuits you might face.

Side note: Things have changed. I was on my parents policy and drove their cars (some new, some not) but I never drove recklessly. Thinking back, I never had an accident before 25. I'm sure part of that was luck, but the other part was not asking for it by driving like an idiot. You know, like going 117 on a back country road? And I find that as I get older, I drive even more defensively because I probably should.

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I started driving in the late 90s and it's a lot different today. Similar to some above, I drove all my parents cars of various condition. One of the things that stuck with me while driving was being constantly reminded that none of them were my cars and I was merely driving out of my parents' convenience. If i screwed up then that would be a bit more inconvenient for them than driving me where I needed to be. I paid for gas but parents' had me on their insurance. It was more expensive but not cost prohibitive like it is today. The idea was that it would keep me from having to work as many hours and therefore I had no excuse not to max out my grades. Everyone is different, but this worked out well for us.

One of my cousins has just started the process and His parents were surprised by the extra rules (might be a good thing) and costs compared to another cousin who started driving 4 years ago. This is the same family surprised by changes just 4 years out. 

best bet would talk to a few of the parents of the friends of your teenage kids who just started driving.

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There are things you can do from a legal standpoint other then educating here 

A) put the car ownership and registration in her name

B) put her on her own insurance policy 

That alone creates a wall of legal protection

A dash cam will only protect the person who was in the "right", but still a good investment if you think she is a responsible driver. 

 

AFAIK, it would take an incredible amount of work to connect even a 17 year old to their parents with the above suggestions. There is no legal liability on the parents at that point, and I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise. You would have to show some kind of parent negligence... and i cant imagine that having a low bar to reach.

It would make little sense for any lawyer to argue someone who does not own the car, or is part of the liability coverage would have liability over it. 

At 17 years old, a "kid" can purchase a vehicle in NJ with out their parents consents, they can register it, and get it insured... all on their won. 

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On the original topic, if you really want to insulate yourself from her driving she needs her own car (in her name alone), her own insurance policy and maybe even her own address - her own address because your insurance policy may require you to list every licensed driver in the house.  Some do, some don't.  Realistically it may not be practical. 

For you, as other said, get an umbrella policy and be sure all your vehicles are listed on it.  Get a tracking app and use it - show her you're watching and there are consequences to her actions.

  

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3 hours ago, remixer said:

In regards to having them on their own policy.... Not sure that makes sense.... If they are under 18 and they have an accident even with their own policy some lawyer will find a way to drag the parents into the case.... IMO just best to list them as a driver on your policy and make sure you up the coverage... 

Of course it makes sense (and dollars) to register the car in their name and insure it in their name. This gives a "legal" separation between the parents and the kid. If they are in a accident, will the lawyer try to drag the parents in?  Most definitely, because that's where the money is. But that will be quickly slapped down...

But, which is easier to defend by the parents lawyer, where the kid is legally separated from the parents or on their parents policy driving the parent's car. It's a no brainer.

Yes, a umbrella policy is a must have for MANY reasons, not just a young driver. But, that isn't surefire either, depending on the lawsuit, a few million in a umbrella policy can vaporize really quickly. That's why it's better to separate the liability with the young driver as best as possible..

That is, unless you don't mind losing all your guns (and the rest of your personal belongings and house) when being sued....

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1 hour ago, 45Doll said:

Thinking back, I never had an accident before 25. I'm sure part of that was luck, but the other part was not asking for it by driving like an idiot. You know, like going 117 on a back country road?

Wait... what???

You're a guy right?? This is the right of passage, driving like an idiot when first getting your license... Hell, I had some of my best wrecks the first year or two of driving... I was on first name basis with the guy at the bone yard, since I was there so frequently buying parts..

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8 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Wait... what???

You're a guy right?? This is the right of passage, driving like an idiot when first getting your license... Hell, I had some of my best wrecks the first year or two of driving... I was on first name basis with the guy at the bone yard, since I was there so frequently buying parts..

LOL yes, I'm a guy. And to make it worse for you, when I graduated college my mother purchased a late 60's muscle car (brand new) for me which I drove accident free for about 10 years. 400 hp and 4-speed Hurst shifted transmission.

Of course I did the drag race bit, even on public roads. But only under controlled conditions and never with other traffic involved. Nor did I excessively speed on public roads.

So... am I not toxic enough? At least I lived to tell the tale.

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11 hours ago, Sniper said:

Yes, I'm brutal... it's called being a parent and NOT their best friend.

I'm far from his best friend

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

 It's called making them responsible for their actions, and not let them hide under mom's apron.

Wrong again

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

Problem number 2. What did you expect insurance to be on a NEW car. He should be driving a $1500 clunker or a used hand me down, because he'll crash it, almost guaranteed.

below is a picture of his 1st car that I bought him -- $700 -- he drove that for 3 years until he decided to buy himself a new car 

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

Sorry, it's the same... hasn't changed much, except the price of the cars that some people think junior "deserves".

Sure it's changed -- Back in 88 I had a 87 blazer -- My 2nd car -- I was able to afford the insurance alone, sure wasn't $5000 a year

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

It's so expensive, because it's a new car that's financed... Get rid of collision.. oh wait, you can't, it's financed and costs a lot to fix.

yes he financed it -- start to build his credit rating and he didn't have the money to buy it -- I wasn't giving it to him

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

You got that part correct, now apply that to the rest...

maybe you're just a prick -- Glad I don't know you and you certainly don't know me 

image.png.6cf6b01725d6768894353e8b0469b5fe.png

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On 5/23/2019 at 10:12 PM, Bklynracer said:

Get a tracking app. I use life 360 (there are others) it uses the phone as a tracker. the basic one shows where she goes and how fast the car was going. The upgrade shows sudden fast starts and stops. 

There is also one you plug a unit into the car itself.

 

 

 

Get a https://vyncs.com/

I bought several for work vehicles.  They work perfectly, assuming the kid doesn't pull it off.  There are alerts for that though.  My phone goes off when the vehicles are speeding.

I'll also 2nd getting a dash cam.  If your kid know everything is recorded, they will probably behave.

 

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 10:52 AM, Sniper said:

Wait... what???

You're a guy right?? This is the right of passage, driving like an idiot when first getting your license... Hell, I had some of my best wrecks the first year or two of driving... I was on first name basis with the guy at the bone yard, since I was there so frequently buying parts..

There are no good bone yards in this state any more.

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11 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Good luck.  1 year of driving. 4 accidents.  2 her fault.  2 not.  Her 15k new ford focus now has 14k of repairs on it.  Hope you have better luck. 

 

On 5/23/2019 at 9:30 PM, Sniper said:

First, get her a clunker to beat up. The odds are, most have some sort of fender bender their first year driving. Get a throw away car...

Looks like I didn't give you that suggestion soon enough.

I don't even want to know what her insurance premium is...

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My wife in her infinite wisdom decided the 96 ford taurus i was keeping for my daughter wasn’t good enough.  So she bought her a new car.  When i talk to a newlywed guy.  My response is always  good luck.  They look at me in confusion.    I say.   You’ll understand soon. 

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My first car was a Chevy Cavalier 5 years old. 35k miles on it. Paid $4k in cash for it. Glad I didn't waste money on a brand new car. Everyone gets scratches and dings in their first car. And they will be in parking lots at school with lots of dumb drivers. I'd never advise getting a nice car for a 17 year old. But if the kid's paying for it, that's on them.

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Every kid I grew up with and every kid I've known who started driving found some way or another to seriously damage their vehicles.

I was driving a 1977 Plymouth Arrow(in late 84) so when it got damaged, no one could tell.   What a piece of garbage.  The transmission crated at 82k.   At that point, a lobe was wiped off the cam.  The alternator had been replaced multiple times.  Battery was shot.  Burned a quart of oil every 1k miles.  Exhaust system had rotted off and I clamped a thrush muffler under it.  The only good thing about it, it was easy to push start.    Completely used up at 82k miles...can you image that these days?  sheesh.

 

 

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