Anyone heard about this?

[pho3nix 5]

If one has a lower that was transferred as a receiver (does not say rifle), that was never built into anything yet, it could be built into the configuration matching one of the approved ones (would build it out of state, don't want to have too many errant parts around, etc). Is that correct?

[0Jeep4 87]

1 hour ago, BenC said:

If one has a lower that was transferred as a receiver (does not say rifle), that was never built into anything yet, it could be built into the configuration matching one of the approved ones (would build it out of state, don't want to have too many errant parts around, etc). Is that correct?

In my personal opinion, you’re g2g as long as the guideline is followed to the T as far as overall length etc. (don’t build an AWO or SBR) 

 also, a non compliant upper is just an upper and is legal till it’s assemble into a firearm, I’d personally build the upper first attach VFG and than build and assemble.

No one has ever been charged with “constructive possession” I believe for a reason.

Build away. 

[124gr9mm 859]

10 hours ago, 0Jeep4 said:

In my personal opinion, you’re g2g as long as the guideline is followed to the T as far as overall length etc. (don’t build an AWO or SBR) 

 also, a non compliant upper is just an upper and is legal till it’s assemble into a firearm, I’d personally build the upper first attach VFG and than build and assemble.

No one has ever been charged with “constructive possession” I believe for a reason.

Build away. 

Still confused.

At Cherry Ridge there was discussion about someone who bought a completed lower with from PSA (through his FFL) and had a 12.5 inch upper sent to his house.  He put the two together in his basement and added a vertical foregrip to it.

Two shooters said it was totally illegal but the RO said there was no way for him to know, so we should just shut up and shoot.  

Is slapping a complete upper and complete lower together different than putting all the pieces together yourself?

 

 

 

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Still confused.

At Cherry Ridge there was discussion about someone who bought a completed lower with from PSA (through his FFL) and had a 12.5 inch upper sent to his house.  He put the two together in his basement and added a vertical foregrip to it.

Two shooters said it was totally illegal but the RO said there was no way for him to know, so we should just shut up and shoot.  

Is slapping a complete upper and complete lower together different than putting all the pieces together yourself?

 

 

 

You have to love the self-proclaimed ROs at CR that don't know when to keep their mouths shut. The firearm arrived at the range in a legal configuration. Glad the actual RO set everyone straight. Shut up and shoot. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Still confused.

At Cherry Ridge there was discussion about someone who bought a completed lower with from PSA (through his FFL) and had a 12.5 inch upper sent to his house.  He put the two together in his basement and added a vertical foregrip to it.

Two shooters said it was totally illegal but the RO said there was no way for him to know, so we should just shut up and shoot.  

Is slapping a complete upper and complete lower together different than putting all the pieces together yourself?

 

 

 

I don't know what else to say at this point other then once it's assembled, it follows the substantial identical part of the law. Prior to that, tread lightly. 

[0Jeep4 87]

10 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Still confused.

At Cherry Ridge there was discussion about someone who bought a completed lower with from PSA (through his FFL) and had a 12.5 inch upper sent to his house.  He put the two together in his basement and added a vertical foregrip to it.

Two shooters said it was totally illegal but the RO said there was no way for him to know, so we should just shut up and shoot.  

Is slapping a complete upper and complete lower together different than putting all the pieces together yourself?

 

 

 

         A completed lower wouldn’t be a good idea in my opinion. It would of either been sold with a rifle stock meaning that lower was sold as a rifle, or a pistol stock meaning it was sold as a pistol. I would assemble a striped lower sold as a receiver into a non-NFA firearm but I would not use a completed lower. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

We should have a "firearm" meet up. 

[shooter28 153]

59 minutes ago, 0Jeep4 said:

         A completed lower wouldn’t be a good idea in my opinion. It would of either been sold with a rifle stock meaning that lower was sold as a rifle, or a pistol stock meaning it was sold as a pistol. I would assemble a striped lower sold as a receiver into a non-NFA firearm but I would not use a completed lower. 

I agree with this if you want to play strictly by the book.

If you just want to play the realistic chances of anything ever happening, do as you choose to do. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, 0Jeep4 said:

         A completed lower wouldn’t be a good idea in my opinion. It would of either been sold with a rifle stock meaning that lower was sold as a rifle, or a pistol stock meaning it was sold as a pistol. I would assemble a striped lower sold as a receiver into a non-NFA firearm but I would not use a completed lower. 

You can convert a pistol into a non- NFA firearm. 

I also believe that complete lowers, even with a stock, are transferred as receivers.

At the ends of the day, once they are complete, all the originating paperwork is the same. 

[ChrisJM981 924]

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

You can convert a pistol into a non- NFA firearm. 

I also believe that complete lowers, even with a stock, are transferred as receivers.

At the ends of the day, once they are complete, all the originating paperwork is the same. 

If it's sold as a pistol would need a pistol purchase permit?

Just use a stripped lower. I did the compliance work in PA to avoid running afoul of NJ law. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, ChrisJM981 said:

If it's sold as a pistol would need a pistol purchase permit?

Just use a stripped lower. I did the compliance work in PA to avoid running afoul of NJ law. 

Im not suggesting to go that route, but if you did it would be fine. But otherwise, any complete lower i believe is still transferred as a receiver regardless of configuration. 

Im not even sure where this idea came from that you need a pistol permit for receivers if you plan to make one into a pistol. 

 

If i buy a 1911 receiver, per the ATF it is transferred as a receiver.. not a handgun. NJ only requires permits for purchasing pistols. 

From a legal stand point, you could buy 15 completed glock receivers on the same day... and piece them all together with complete oem glock slides shipped to your door. 

 

[PK90 3,570]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

Im not suggesting to go that route, but if you did it would be fine. But otherwise, any complete lower i believe is still transferred as a receiver regardless of configuration. 

Im not even sure where this idea came from that you need a pistol permit for receivers if you plan to make one into a pistol. 

If i buy a 1911 receiver, per the ATF it is transferred as a receiver.. not a handgun. NJ only requires permits for purchasing pistols. 

From a legal stand point, you could buy 15 completed glock receivers on the same day... and piece them all together with complete oem glock slides shipped to your door. 

Rhetorical Question. Suppose a NJ resident wants to build a Glock rifle with a 16" barrel, would he need a Handgun Permit?

[ChrisJM981 924]

The bigger problem is finding railed uppers with an 11.5" barrel for a reasonable price. A friend asked me to make a parts list for him. Lower, lower parts kit, brace, and grips are all readily available. 11.5" upper? Not so much. 

[shooter28 153]

4 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

The bigger problem is finding railed uppers with an 11.5" barrel for a reasonable price. A friend asked me to make a parts list for him. Lower, lower parts kit, brace, and grips are all readily available. 11.5" upper? Not so much. 

Andro Corps down in FL makes them at pretty reasonable prices. SOLGW is a bit more but they are also pretty reasonably priced. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

6 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

The bigger problem is finding railed uppers with an 11.5" barrel for a reasonable price. A friend asked me to make a parts list for him. Lower, lower parts kit, brace, and grips are all readily available. 11.5" upper? Not so much. 

If youre making a parts list, why does the upper have to be completed?

 

BCM has them in stock..

[shooter28 153]

9 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

If youre making a parts list, why does the upper have to be completed?

Looks like hes building the lower but wants an assembled upper. Im doing mine the same way. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

53 minutes ago, shooter28 said:

Looks like hes building the lower but wants an assembled upper. Im doing mine the same way. 

Gun broker also has a bunch of Colt uppers.

[shooter28 153]

Yea I havent had a problem finding them. Just saving up some money because I'm also getting married in a month haha. Andro Corps will be putting mine together. BA barrel, SLR handguard, charging handle & gas block, BCM VFG

[shooter28 153]

And as I speak, just got an email saying Aero Precision is doing 15% off on all uppers. They have a couple options to choose from in the 11.5" category

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

4 hours ago, shooter28 said:

And as I speak, just got an email saying Aero Precision is doing 15% off on all uppers. They have a couple options to choose from in the 11.5" category

Is there a discount code? I don't see the discount on their site.

[shooter28 153]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Is there a discount code? I don't see the discount on their site.

It should already be applied. Heres the link from the email

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15/upper-receivers/complete-uppers?trk_msg=LNLJD1SMABNK1ELMTEU884REDG&trk_contact=SRJC8DS4IU0US63N2LI13GMJQO&trk_sid=RV9DRIKRQO78FPK2LAR425N1C4&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=SHOP+AR15+COMPLETE+UPPERS&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+-+15%+off+Complete+Upper+08.07.19

[SJG 253]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:02 PM, Maksim said:

I promise you it is only a matter of time....  I will see what my contact at PSA says.

See, for $499, I can see this being a cheap bet.

Spending $1,500 on something oh so in your face... I would not be able to justify.

Honestly, knowing that Troy is making one of these... PSA is likely to have these within 30 days as all of these parts are readily available.

So what did your PSA contact say? Would like to get one of these assembled, but not pay more than $600-750

[GramGun79 226]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:39 AM, ChrisJM981 said:

The bigger problem is finding railed uppers with an 11.5" barrel for a reasonable price. A friend asked me to make a parts list for him. Lower, lower parts kit, brace, and grips are all readily available. 11.5" upper? Not so much. 

According to Modern Materiel 11.5 will not cut it anymore with the SB3 brace unless the flash hider is pin and welded. ATF recently changed how they measure to 26". You must now measure from the end of the buffer tube, their new SBF's going out will have an 11.75 barrel in order to not have to permanently attach the muzzle device.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

2 hours ago, GramGun79 said:

According to Modern Materiel 11.5 will not cut it anymore with the SB3 brace unless the flash hider is pin and welded. ATF recently changed how they measure to 26". You must now measure from the end of the buffer tube, their new SBF's going out will have an 11.75 barrel in order to not have to permanently attach the muzzle device.

PK 90 posted the most recent letter in regards to black aces firearms, states that the measurement is taken with the brace collapsed.

 

Everyone seemed to miss the first paragraph of that original document "correct way to measure a firearm equipped with a stabalizing brace AND A FOLDING ADAPTER. 

[GramGun79 226]

33 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

PK 90 posted the most recent letter in regards to black aces firearms, states that the measurement is taken with the brace collapsed.

 

Everyone seemed to miss the first paragraph of that original document "correct way to measure a firearm equipped with a stabalizing brace AND A FOLDING ADAPTER. 

I wonder why @Modern Materiel pinned mine then? Maybe they can shed some light on it??? 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 minute ago, GramGun79 said:

I wonder why @Modern Materiel pinned mine then? Maybe they can shed some light on it??? 

CYA

They bought them selves enough room incase anything changes.

[Maksim 1,504]

5 hours ago, SJG said:

So what did your PSA contact say? Would like to get one of these assembled, but not pay more than $600-750

They have no plans to enter the Non-NFA/Other Firearm game.

Neither did any of the other major manufacturers. 

They all believe the writing is on the wall. 

[Maksim 1,504]

5 hours ago, GramGun79 said:

According to Modern Materiel 11.5 will not cut it anymore with the SB3 brace unless the flash hider is pin and welded. ATF recently changed how they measure to 26". You must now measure from the end of the buffer tube, their new SBF's going out will have an 11.75 barrel in order to not have to permanently attach the muzzle device.

 

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

PK 90 posted the most recent letter in regards to black aces firearms, states that the measurement is taken with the brace collapsed.

 

Everyone seemed to miss the first paragraph of that original document "correct way to measure a firearm equipped with a stabalizing brace AND A FOLDING ADAPTER. 

 

2 hours ago, GramGun79 said:

I wonder why @Modern Materiel pinned mine then? Maybe they can shed some light on it??? 

 

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

CYA

They bought them selves enough room incase anything changes.

So ATF merely changed the way they measure to match the way NJSP had already measured it.

In all of the docs posted here, pretty much 12" is what you needed with SBA3 to not have to pin the flash hider/brake.

Troy and DSI guns come with 12.5" and I don't see why they didn't go that route from the beginning.  Having the ability to put your own choice of muzzle device without permanently modifying a barrel is a win in my book.  Plus the additional 1" should help with velocities, reduce recoil and increase accuracy.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

9 minutes ago, Maksim said:

 

 

 

So ATF merely changed the way they measure to match the way NJSP had already measured it.

In all of the docs posted here, pretty much 12" is what you needed with SBA3 to not have to pin the flash hider/brake.

Troy and DSI guns come with 12.5" and I don't see why they didn't go that route from the beginning.  Having the ability to put your own choice of muzzle device without permanently modifying a barrel is a win in my book.  Plus the additional 1" should help with velocities, reduce recoil and increase accuracy.

All I can say is the most recent black aces letter states to measure the firearm with the brace collapsed... That would allow for a 11.5 and sba3... 

 

The previous letter like I stated was for specifically folding braces... even if they do mention removing braces to measure OAL on fixed tubes... 

Which one take precedent?

I'd rather the 11.5 and a A5 buffer.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

You could pin the brace..