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Recommend handgun

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1 minute ago, Maksim said:

In that case the noise and muzzle flash will not make a difference anyway.  

Only thing that would be hearing safe WITHOUT a suppressor would be like a 22lr shooting cci quiet (borderline) or CB caps, etc.

Will wait for an LEO expert to chime in here but generally, IIRC in those situations, your body automatically "shuts down" hearing expecting it, or something like that.

If you want quiet and no muzzle flash, move to America and get a suppressor.  Otherwise, work within the guidelines.

The reason I mentioned recoil is because you did. 

The recoil is certainly part of the equation, to make it easier to hit a target if I have to shoot more than once. But the other two are a bigger deal to me.

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1 minute ago, jasonx said:

The recoil is certainly part of the equation, to make it easier to hit a target if I have to shoot more than once. But the other two are a bigger deal to me.

Just wondering... have you ever shot/rented handguns at a range yet?

I think once you do... you will have different questions. =) 

And generally recoil is not what makes it easier or harder to hit a target... it is lack of training with a firearm.  Not all recoil is bad but in general, a 9mm will not give you issues with follow up shots.   You are not shooting a 357 magnum revolver with a 10 lb double action pull out of a snubby. 

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Just now, Maksim said:

Just wondering... have you ever shot/rented handguns at a range yet?

I think once you do... you will have different questions. =) 

And generally recoil is not what makes it easier or harder to hit a target... it is lack of training with a firearm.  Not all recoil is bad but in general, a 9mm will not give you issues with follow up shots.   You are not shooting a 357 magnum revolver with a 10 lb double action pull out of a snubby. 

Yes, I have shot before. My favorite was shooting a 9mm rifle with optics.

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Jason - you are looking for hardware solutions to a software problem. 

Buy a reliable gun chambered in a duty caliber that feels comfortable in your hands. Then buy a shit-ton of ammo and learn how to shoot under the watchful eye of a reputable instructor. Then buy more ammo and practice what you learned in training. Rinse and repeat.

There are no hardware shortcuts. An optic will not make you a better shooter or speed up how fast you become proficient with your chosen tool.

You need to develop your software - your mind - through repetitive and often demoralizing training. You have to learn what you don’t know that you don’t know.

Newsflash - guns are loud. They recoil. They spit fire. The only way to overcome This is to inoculate yourself to it through familiarization.

Every members here shoots. All of our guns recoil and are loud and have muzzle flash. We all overcame it and you will too.

And anyway - Honestly, the noise and the fire and the recoil is what makes it fun....

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40 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Jason - you are looking for hardware solutions to a software problem. 

Buy a reliable gun chambered in a duty caliber that feels comfortable in your hands. Then buy a shit-ton of ammo and learn how to shoot under the watchful eye of a reputable instructor. Then buy more ammo and practice what you learned in training. Rinse and repeat.

There are no hardware shortcuts. An optic will not make you a better shooter or speed up how fast you become proficient with your chosen tool.

You need to develop your software - your mind - through repetitive and often demoralizing training. You have to learn what you don’t know that you don’t know.

Newsflash - guns are loud. They recoil. They spit fire. The only way to overcome This is to inoculate yourself to it through familiarization.

Every members here shoots. All of our guns recoil and are loud and have muzzle flash. We all overcame it and you will too.

And anyway - Honestly, the noise and the fire and the recoil is what makes it fun....

Can we put this on a t-Shirt? =)

@jasonx  the above is perhaps the BEST way to summarize what most people are trying to say. 

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2 hours ago, Maksim said:

Only thing that would be hearing safe WITHOUT a suppressor would be like a 22lr shooting cci quiet (borderline) or CB caps, etc.

 

Newwwwwwwwwwwp.  Shot CCI Quiet through the Wrangler.... it is NOT that quiet indoors.  It's advertised as 68db "at the shooter's ears" but that's most likely through a rifle.  Was pretty painful indoors.  It was noticeable... yes, not as loud as a standard .22LR but through a shorter barreled pistol and indoors with the echo, it's right at the cusp of hearing damage.

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1 minute ago, Krdshrk said:

Newwwwwwwwwwwp.  Shot CCI Quiet through the Wrangler.... it is NOT that quiet indoors.  It's advertised as 68db "at the shooter's ears" but that's most likely through a rifle.  Was pretty painful indoors.  It was noticeable... yes, not as loud as a standard .22LR but through a shorter barreled pistol and indoors with the echo, it's right at the cusp of hearing damage.

Was that the stuff we shot outdoors that day that was stupid quiet?  Or was that different ammo?

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Just now, Maksim said:

Was that the stuff we shot outdoors that day that was stupid quiet?  Or was that different ammo?

Same stuff.  Through a 20" Barrel outdoors is hella quiet.

Through a 4.62" Barrel indoors, surrounded by concrete and cinder blocks.... not so much

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:53 PM, jasonx said:

I was hoping someone would say I COULD use something as small as .22LR. Does that really have insufficient stopping power for home defense?

Are there any handguns that have longer barrels or anything that redirects the sound away from the shooter rather than towards the shooter?

Okay.  I'll tell you you COULD use a 22 for self defense. However, it would be a stupid decision if anu thing else is available.  A 9mm, 38 spl, 357 mag, or 45 acp would be a much better choice to stop a bad guy.

5 hours ago, jasonx said:

No, I'm more worried about the noise and muzzle flash. Not a big issue at the firing range, but it can make a nighttime self-defense situation indoors a bit difficult.

Trust me, if you're in any kind of self defense situation muzzle flash and recoil are way down on the list of what will bother you.

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5 hours ago, jasonx said:

The recoil is certainly part of the equation, to make it easier to hit a target if I have to shoot more than once. But the other two are a bigger deal to me.

If you're in a SD shooting situation you are shooting to stop the bad guy from doing what he's doing.  It may take one shot or it may take 10.  You make it easier to hit the target by meaningful practice and training not by the total number of rounds you shoot at the range.

Read @High Exposure's post above.  You are looking to solve software problems with hardware.  It doesn't work that way.  Only about 5% of gunfighting is what gun you're using and your ability to hit the target.  Now that 5% is important but 95% of gunfighting is your mental preparation.  95% is between your ears.  If you want a more in depth explanation of what I'm saying watch the Jeff Cooper videos in the link below.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jeff+cooper+mental+conditioning&oq=jef&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j35i39j0.2879j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

As far as what gun to buy any quality handgun will do what you're looking for. Glock, SIG, Beretta, Ruger, S&W, or any of the others.  9mm is the least expensive centerfire pistol ammo now.

I also would also like to echo a recommendation @Ray Ray and others have made.  A 4" 357 Magnum revolver.  You can start shooting 38s and as your skill developes work your way up through wadcutters, std 38s, +P, +P+, to full 357s.  Yes, it's a little harder to learn a DA revolver but once you've mastered that everything else is easy.

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7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Read @High Exposure's post above. 

 

I also would also like to echo a recommendation @Ray Ray and others have made.  A 4" 357 Magnum revolver.  You can start shooting 38s and as your skill developes work your way up through wadcutters, std 38s, +P, +P+, to full 357s.  Yes, it's a little harder to learn a DA revolver but once you've mastered that everything else is easy.

Yes and yes

Learning to shoot a revolver CORRECTLY (using it in double action) will make you a better shooter for semi automatic handguns.  Either hammer fired or striker fired.

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12 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Jason - you are looking for hardware solutions to a software problem. 

Buy a reliable gun chambered in a duty caliber that feels comfortable in your hands. Then buy a shit-ton of ammo and learn how to shoot under the watchful eye of a reputable instructor. Then buy more ammo and practice what you learned in training. Rinse and repeat.

There are no hardware shortcuts. An optic will not make you a better shooter or speed up how fast you become proficient with your chosen tool.

You need to develop your software - your mind - through repetitive and often demoralizing training. You have to learn what you don’t know that you don’t know.

Newsflash - guns are loud. They recoil. They spit fire. The only way to overcome This is to inoculate yourself to it through familiarization.

Every members here shoots. All of our guns recoil and are loud and have muzzle flash. We all overcame it and you will too.

And anyway - Honestly, the noise and the fire and the recoil is what makes it fun....

testify brother

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:11 PM, jasonx said:

New gun owner and need a handgun recommendations so I can get it before the permit expires. Things I'm interested in:

1. Something designed with a 10-round mag. As 11+ round mags are illegal, there's not much reason to purchase a gun with enough room built into the handle to facilitate more than 10 rounds as it would just be empty space. Obviously, this is not THAT important - I can always just get a smaller mag.

2. Something with the least noise/muzzle flash. Obviously suppressors are illegal here, too, but I'd still like something that's going to be more convenient for self-defense on a dark night (to reduce the effects of being blinded by the muzzle flash, for example). I also don't want to go deaf if I have to use it for home defense inside the home.

3. Potentially something that allows for some modding, like for a laser pointer, etc...

4. It should have enough stopping power to be used for self-defense obviously.

5. Reliability.

6. Something that's simple/easier to disassemble and clean.

*Goes without saying, but should be legal in NJ.

The thread has probably  evolved since your first post, and many members have given very good helpful feedback in terms of reliability and improving proficiency. I noticed you mentioned modding. Were you looking for an all around handgun that is good for homedefense and competition?

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4 hours ago, EngineerJet said:

The thread has probably  evolved since your first post, and many members have given very good helpful feedback in terms of reliability and improving proficiency. I noticed you mentioned modding. Were you looking for an all around handgun that is good for homedefense and competition?

Yes.

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On 6/19/2019 at 8:27 PM, Maksim said:

Will wait for an LEO expert to chime in here but generally, IIRC in those situations, your body automatically "shuts down" hearing expecting it, or something like that.

Not LEO; have read many reports that in a high stress situation the shooter isn’t that aware of the noise, as the mind is focused elsewhere.

BUT, there is no mechanism by which hearing is shut down; the noise is damaging whether you are aware of it or not.  Fortunately, it’s rare that many shots are fired in such a situation.  

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2 hours ago, 10X said:

Not LEO; have read many reports that in a high stress situation the shooter isn’t that aware of the noise, as the mind is focused elsewhere.

BUT, there is no mechanism by which hearing is shut down; the noise is damaging whether you are aware of it or not.  Fortunately, it’s rare that many shots are fired in such a situation.  

I hardly ever hear my shotgun when hunting birds but I always hear someone elce shot 

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On 6/25/2019 at 7:06 PM, 10X said:

Not LEO; have read many reports that in a high stress situation the shooter isn’t that aware of the noise, as the mind is focused elsewhere.

BUT, there is no mechanism by which hearing is shut down; the noise is damaging whether you are aware of it or not.  Fortunately, it’s rare that many shots are fired in such a situation.  

don't need LEO to discuss this.  In any situation where you are focused/concentrated, have high stress (which fixates the mind on a singular issue) and situations of extreme uncertainty, the body reacts to help the mind deal with the added chemical/endos etc..  Your muscles (I forgot the name) get something your body produces to strengthen for increased reflex action.  you are correct, you cannot shutdown hearing in fact, the body will fight this involuntarily and there are other things but yes, you 'tune out' things around you but your hearing definitely does not shut down

the mind when stressed is fascinating actually and the body is certainly the most efficient organism on the planet. 

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