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basshole

Inheriting firearms in NJ?

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First off, let me say that I've never personally owned a gun in NJ, nor had an 'FPID' card.

I grew up in NJ,  and my parents had a second home in the mountains in N.E. PA. 

My grandfather, dad, and one uncle kept an assortment of rifles, shotguns, and a couple old revolvers at the PA house.

My dad passed away four years ago, my grandfather has been gone now for 40 years, and my uncle passed away this spring.
Thus, I inherited the house in PA and my dad's home in NJ. Since my dad's home is paid off, I sold my house and am moving there this month.

The house in PA will get sold. My question is, what do I need to do about the firearms. In PA, they are mine, no bs or anything to bother with. But I'm told that bringing them to NJ, which I must now do is a problem. None are NJ banned, just a few Remington 870's, a couple 30/30 rifles, and an old Remington 30-06 Woodsmaster, plus two old  revolvers. Nothing newer than the 80's, the revolvers are from the 40's and belonged to my grandfather.

So far I've only called a few gun shops and the NJ State Police, and the local PD in NJ and I got several different stories.

The PD told me that I need to get a FPID card before taking possession of any firearm, and I have to approved for a pistol permit for each handgun. One gun shop told me that they are already my guns and that I'm perfectly legal just bringing them here, (unloaded and locked in the trunk) and that I do not need an FPID card since I am not 'Purchasing' any guns. That same shop tells me that I am fine with the hand guns so long as they stay in my house.

Another Gun shop told me that each and ever gun has to go through an FFL in PA and be shipped to an FFL in NJ and only released to me AFTER I get an FPID card and pistol permit for each handgun.

Who is right?   The PD referred me to this: NJ Rev Stat § 2C:39-5 (2013)

The way I read it I need an FPID card just to own or possess a gun in NJ? If so, why is it called an Firearms Purchaser's ID card?

I did apply for an FPID card at my local PD but its been months and I've not heard anything yet. I applied twice, the first time they said one of my references didn't return their questionnaire. They made me re-apply paying all the fees a second time. The second time, I personally watched both references fill out and mail the forms. I'm still waiting here in August, that was in March. I stopped by the PD and was told it just takes time. I spoke with another guy at work and he said his took 13 months. I applied for the FPID card before I realized there were two pistols there as well.  I didn't apply for any handgun permits because I was told that may hold things up longer.

To sum it all up:  Am I ok to just load everything in my trunk and bring it home here? Or do I have to jump through hoops to be legal in NJ?

The guns have little monetary value, just sentimental value in that they belonged to my dad and grandpa. Most were likely bought used in PA long before my time and the whole lot likely don't tally up to more than a few hundred bucks or so. The pistols may or may not even be functional, I don't recall ever seeing either one fired. The one requires you remove the cylinder to load it, the other breaks in the middle like an old shotgun to load. There's also quite a bit of ammo up there, but mostly just tins full of old shot shells for duck hunting and I suppose some target practice. I can give that away there or bring it home in a separate trip.

 

 

 

 

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The PD and the second gun shop are wrong, very wrong.   They're your guns, and if they are NJ legal guns, you can transport them between your residences in PA and NJ without jumping through any hoops.  The NJ FPID card will simplify some things down the road, but you don't have to have it in advance of bringing the guns in.  People move here all the time, and legally bring their guns into the state with them.  Without an FPID, or any time you are transporting handguns or hollow point ammo, you need to drive directly to your house once you cross into NJ.  You aren't allowed to run errands or go to the movies while transporting (though once you have your FPID, that restriction goes away for the long guns).

Don't be too quick to give away the old ammo; if old enough, it may have collector value.   If not, it probably still works just fine.  Ammo has a really long shelf life.

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How about the two revolvers? Do I need to register them or get a permit or anything?

Am I required to get an FPID card if I don't intend to buy anything?

The one officer I spoke to said that I'd likely need to give the guns to the chief of police in my town to be held until I was able to get the proper FPID card. He said he wasn't sure about the long guns but the pistols definitely needed a permit. The only permit I could find online was to purchase a gun, I told him I wasn't purchasing anything, and that these are my guns that I'd be bringing to my home in NJ.
Is there someplace or something I can print out that says its legal to bring my own guns into NJ so I have something in writing if I got pulled over?  

I just don't want to get pulled over or arrested for having an 'illegal' firearm or something.  Not that I get pulled over very often but with my luck the one time I get stopped I'll have a trunk full of guns with no way to prove where they came from. (PA doesn't document or register any firearm), and only did a background checks on the sale of new handguns up to last year. There is no registration of any guns. I'd also venture to bet that nearly all of those guns were bought used, or were bought so long ago that I'd never be able to find any sort of proof of ownership. Most are older than I am. After searching around on the web I keep finding all sorts of horror stories about guns in NJ. Its likely why dad never brought any of them here himself, but I don't have a choice.

The oldest ammo is paper 12ga shells, but there's only a box or two of that. There's a ton of what is likely 50's ammo and a lot of grand dads reloaded rifle ammo, plus all the reloading equipment which from the paperwork I found is from the early to mid 1960's. There's likely several thousand rounds each of 30/30 and 30-06 ammo and bricks of .22lr and 22 shorts that were likely bought when ever it went on sale or clearance back in the day.

 

 

 

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https://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

#10: direct from the NJ State Police

If I inherit a firearm what must I do?

Pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3j, a firearm purchaser identification card and/or a handgun purchase permit shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to his/her heir or legatee, whether the same by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. The firearm must be legal to possess in New Jersey and the person receiving the firearm shall not be prohibited by N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c before receiving the firearm. If the heir or legatee does not qualify to acquire and possess the firearm, then ownership may be retained for a period not to exceed 180 days provided the firearm is transferred to the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality or the superintendent during such period

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@basshole - it's a good thing you posted your question here, isn't it?

One of the things that consistently amazed me when I first lurked on this site was seeing how often cops (and occasionally FFLs, too) give out the WRONG LEGAL INFO!!! Though granted, some of them have an anti-2A slant, I think ignorance is far more often the cause!

For instance, in the last 4 years, there have been 3 different troopers that rotated through the firearms assignment at my local state police barracks. And that's NOT the only duty they're assigned --- the same person that processes the firearms paperwork is also the state police rep for the local municipalities (attending their town council meetings and dealing with issues that arise, etc.) and other duties as well. Firearms law in this state is quite complex - and yet, in some cases, the people tasked with doling out the info will almost inevitably be new to the role. I'm sure they get some kind of training... but if they're only in that rotational assignment a brief time, how can they ever really build expertise? So they could either constantly call the real experts at the firearms unit in Trention, or more likely, if they're rushed... on occasion, if they're just "pretty sure" about the answer (but still WRONG), I'm sure they just give out the wrong info anyway. 

Case in point... one of my girlfriend's inherited her son's guns when he (sadly) passed away. When the cop released the guns to her - he told her she "had to apply for an FPID within 30 days." It took me pulling up the same info online as W2MC just did (above) AND showing her several posts on NJGF to convince her that what he told her was total poppycock. LOTS AND LOTS of bad info being given out, unfortunately!

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10X and Johnny B are correct.

The guns are yours. If the guns are NJ legal (and it sounds like they are), you put them in your trunk and bring them into NJ. If you do not have a trunk, the guns need to be cased.

There is no need to register the guns with the NJSP or transfer them thru a FFL. I am sure the NJSP would love to have you register all of your guns, but it is not required by law. I am sure some FFLs would love to charge you $50 per gun to transfer them to you, but it is not required by law.

The NJ FPID card allows you to buy long guns as often as you wish & to buy handgun ammo. Legally, you do not need the FPID to buy long gun ammo, but some places make you show it. 

The FPID allows you to transport unloaded and cased long guns in your vehicle all the time as long as the location is not a prohibited location... ie gov. buildings, schools etc.

Without the FPID card, you would only be allowed to take the guns directly from your NJ home to a range, gunsmith or other property owned by you (which also includes any business you own). Deviations whilst traveling with a firearm are not allowed.

Best of luck to you.

 

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17 hours ago, basshole said:

How about the two revolvers? Do I need to register them or get a permit or anything?

Am I required to get an FPID card if I don't intend to buy anything?

The one officer I spoke to said that I'd likely need to give the guns to the chief of police in my town to be held until I was able to get the proper FPID card. He said he wasn't sure about the long guns but the pistols definitely needed a permit. The only permit I could find online was to purchase a gun, I told him I wasn't purchasing anything, and that these are my guns that I'd be bringing to my home in NJ.
Is there someplace or something I can print out that says its legal to bring my own guns into NJ so I have something in writing if I got pulled over?  

I just don't want to get pulled over or arrested for having an 'illegal' firearm or something.  Not that I get pulled over very often but with my luck the one time I get stopped I'll have a trunk full of guns with no way to prove where they came from. (PA doesn't document or register any firearm), and only did a background checks on the sale of new handguns up to last year. There is no registration of any guns. I'd also venture to bet that nearly all of those guns were bought used, or were bought so long ago that I'd never be able to find any sort of proof of ownership. Most are older than I am. After searching around on the web I keep finding all sorts of horror stories about guns in NJ. Its likely why dad never brought any of them here himself, but I don't have a choice.

The oldest ammo is paper 12ga shells, but there's only a box or two of that. There's a ton of what is likely 50's ammo and a lot of grand dads reloaded rifle ammo, plus all the reloading equipment which from the paperwork I found is from the early to mid 1960's. There's likely several thousand rounds each of 30/30 and 30-06 ammo and bricks of .22lr and 22 shorts that were likely bought when ever it went on sale or clearance back in the day.

 

 

 

You have been given the 100% correct, lawful advice from our various Forum members, Patriots ALL!

Whomever you spoke to other THAN US is full of crap & doesn't actually KNOW the law!

Folks move to NJ all the time (must be the Pizza---can't be for the gun laws!).  In fact, you could roll-in drivin' a motor home with a 200 gun collection worth more than six figures, and so long as every gun meets NJ legality magazine capacity wise (10 or less in a mag) & evil feature wise (2 evil features & nothing like a grenade launcher, lol), you're good-to-go as @Mrs. Peel & @W2MC (and all the other great & kind posters) have said.

At some point, if you wish to "feed" your inherited collection some LEAD, it will be easier with a NJFPID card (as previously noted).  

Should you need any other firearms related questions answered, ask them HERE or reach me thru the Coalition of New Jersey Firearm owners Facebook page:  https://www.Facebook.com/cnjfo .  I'm their Vice President.

Welcome to NJ, the Communist People's Republic!  Everything in this video is 100% factual!

 

 

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10 hours ago, dajonga said:

10X and Johnny B are correct.

The guns are yours. If the guns are NJ legal (and it sounds like they are), you put them in your trunk and bring them into NJ. If you do not have a trunk, the guns need to be cased.

There is no need to register the guns with the NJSP or transfer them thru a FFL. I am sure the NJSP would love to have you register all of your guns, but it is not required by law. I am sure some FFLs would love to charge you $50 per gun to transfer them to you, but it is not required by law.

The NJ FPID card allows you to buy long guns as often as you wish & to buy handgun ammo. Legally, you do not need the FPID to buy long gun ammo, but some places make you show it. 

The FPID allows you to transport unloaded and cased long guns in your vehicle all the time as long as the location is not a prohibited location... ie gov. buildings, schools etc.

Without the FPID card, you would only be allowed to take the guns directly from your NJ home to a range, gunsmith or other property owned by you (which also includes any business you own). Deviations whilst traveling with a firearm are not allowed.

Best of luck to you.

100% correct. Covers all points. Excellent post.

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19 hours ago, W2MC said:

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

#10: direct from the NJ State Police

If I inherit a firearm what must I do?

Pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3j, a firearm purchaser identification card and/or a handgun purchase permit shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to his/her heir or legatee, whether the same by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. The firearm must be legal to possess in New Jersey and the person receiving the firearm shall not be prohibited by N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c before receiving the firearm. If the heir or legatee does not qualify to acquire and possess the firearm, then ownership may be retained for a period not to exceed 180 days provided the firearm is transferred to the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality or the superintendent during such period

The part about this that bothers me is that one of the officers present where I asked about the FPID card told me that if I were to get pulled over with a trunk load of guns in my car that I couldn't prove were mine, they would confiscate them until 'they' could prove they were indeed mine and not stolen. If that happened, they, nor I could really prove anything. I have no paperwork stating the guns belonged to my dad, uncle, or grandpop, they likely never had anything either, it was never required in PA and like I said, they likely bought them used privately in PA. Dad's will stated that in the event of his passing, all his possessions and such become mine, as I'm the only heir left.
The house already had my name on the deed, both here and in PA, that was done 35 years ago to simplify things when the time came that both my parents were gone. The deed still lists all four of us. My uncle had no kids and me and my dad were only children.
 

I'm not new to NJ, I was born and raised here, I just got out when I got out of school at 18 after taking a job in PA working with my uncle.  I am in the process of selling my house here in favor of my dads place, mostly because its bigger and its been in the family for 80 years. I have no attachment to the house I bought. None of us ever kept any guns here simply because we didn't hunt here and there was really no place to shoot. If the house in PA was larger or closer to some sort of employment up there I'd keep that but I thought about it, worked every possible angle on whether it would be doable or not and its just got to go. Its not the place it used to be, the houses are moving in too close, the hunting is still ok, but I'm not much of a hunter. I prefer to be closer to the water than the mountains.

The guns are all in cases for the most part, but the cases aren't lockable but I drive a sedan so the trunk is a separate compartment.

I can't imagine ever needing any more ammo, if what's there is still good, other than the old paper shot shells, I'm more than set for life, even if I were shooting daily. Plus, there's twice as much 'unassembled' ammo for reloading.  I just need to decipher grandpop's reloading notes, some he wrote down 70 or so years ago or more and learn how to reload I suppose.

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15 hours ago, basshole said:

The part about this that bothers me is that one of the officers present where I asked about the FPID card told me that if I were to get pulled over with a trunk load of guns in my car that I couldn't prove were mine, they would confiscate them until 'they' could prove they were indeed mine and not stolen. If that happened, they, nor I could really prove anything. I have no paperwork stating the guns belonged to my dad, uncle, or grandpop, they likely never had anything either, it was never required in PA and like I said, they likely bought them used privately in PA. Dad's will stated that in the event of his passing, all his possessions and such become mine, as I'm the only heir left.

The cop is lying to you and trying to scare you.

Can you prove that the cash in your wallet is yours?
Can you prove that the tools in the trunk are yours?
Can you prove that the coat you're wearing is yours?

Keep the guns and ammo separate in the trunk and don't drive like an asshole and you don't have to worry about any "what if's".

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I brought most home today, I was up that way for work and my company car has a huge trunk, so I stopped at the house for lunch and took what would fit in the trunk.

I'll have to make a bunch of trips for the ammo,  after loading the rifles and about 10 ammo boxes the car was sitting really low in the back so I had to take half of it out. I'll have to make several trips if I'm going to bring all the ammo home. I counted 34 green ammo cans and the glass gun cabinet is full of new ammo.  There's an old wood gun cabinet with a glass front that's full of boxes of ammo, mostly shot shells. A buddy is going to load up the gun safe that's in PA and bring it here. I"m not sure where I'm going to put it, it may be too heavy to keep upstairs but my basement is kind of damp and not a place I care to store ammo or guns. Getting it in the house period will be a challenge in itself.  I may have to reinforce the area where it ends up being placed with some poles underneath it in the basement.

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On 8/8/2019 at 4:25 AM, basshole said:

The one officer I spoke to said that I'd likely need to give the guns to the chief of police in my town to be held until I was able to get the proper FPID card. He said he wasn't sure about the long guns but the pistols definitely needed a permit.

OP: Re-read the statute quoted by W2MC. You are good to go. Just be sure to obey the transport laws as described above.

As to the 'one officer', it never ceases to amaze me how little many police officers know about firearm laws in NJ. I have even had to correct several I know personally who apparently never read the statutes.

Don't all these guys get any legal training and required reading at all? Sometimes it seems like it's "Here's your gun. Here's your badge. Now GO!"

Qualifier: yes, I do know officers who are well informed. Apparently they decided to do some non-required reading on their own time.

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I suppose I knew what answer I was going to get when I first asked at the PD, the first reply was "What do you want with a gun?"

"Chances are they're not legal here anyway".  "If you don't have a FPID, you'll have to bring them in and leave them here until you do".

"The handguns will need to be 'run' and checked out, if all checks out ok you'll need to apply for a permit for each one and that takes months".  They did dig up some forms to fill out for an FPID card but a buddy tells me the forms they gave me are outdated and not usable. They're dated 11/99 in the corner. He said they did that to him and then when he came back with them all filled out they said those forms were obsolete and that he needed to obtain the right forms. He's still waiting for his FPID card a year later.

I did download the correct forms online though.

In PA, the response I got was more like "Cool, did they leave you anything good?" "There's a few good public ranges around if you need to see if they fire or not".  PA is not allowed to track, record, or interfere in anyway with the ownership of a firearm so long as you pass a background check if its a handgun. There is no registration of any type. Most of the local PD is up there is friendly, and willing to help.

Its just a totally different atmosphere when at the local PD in NJ. Here they act as if you did something wrong or are about too the minute you mention anything about firearms.

If I could afford to, I'd be out of this state, but I doubt I'd get enough out of this and my other house to afford the move, and I'm really not sure what state I'd go to.  They've been hitting me for $15 every time over the bridge lately, I think they're trying to discourage people from shopping out of state now.

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5 hours ago, basshole said:

I suppose I knew what answer I was going to get when I first asked at the PD, the first reply was "What do you want with a gun?"

Exactly what the Madison PD asked me when I went for my first permits back in the 1970's. Then, after several months of excuses why they still weren't ready, I finally said 'Let me speak to the chief". 

"Hold on a second..... OK, they'll be ready for pickup tomorrow."

Now it's the 21st century. When we applied for our PA resident LTCFs we had a nice discussion with the sheriff's deputy about how screwed up NJ gun laws are. He just kept shaking his head in disbelief. "My cousin told me something about that, but I thought he had it wrong."

So you're right, it's totally different in (most of) PA.

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8 hours ago, basshole said:

I did download the correct forms online though.

 

NJ has been switching over to an online application process called NJ FARS...No more paper applications.

Here is recent thread that discusses the new system.

It is supposed to make applying for NJFPID card and P2P easier and quicker.

 

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The online form sounds like a good idea, it'll avoid standing there in the PD trying to get someone to talk to you in the first place.

Its as if your bothering them.

That makes it easier if I can find or get someone to tell me what the 'ORI' number is over there.

I made the mistake of asking a neighbor, who is a local PD officer if he knew and got the reply that

"What do ya' need that for? We don't need any more guns in the neighborhood, I got kids around here you know".

He got into his car and left.

This is a guy who I know has over 50 rifles and shotguns in his garage.

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3 hours ago, basshole said:

That makes it easier if I can find or get someone to tell me what the 'ORI' number is over there.

 

In about the 25th post in the link I provided is this...

https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/files/NACJD/ORIs/34oris.html

All ORI's for NJ towns. Use the 9 digit number on your NJ FARS application.

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