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jasonx

FID card needs to be carried when going to range?

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What's the general consensus regarding police questions about origin/destination while transporting a gun? I was reading this:

https://www.state.nj.us/oag/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

and it seems like there's a hundred ways you could give a wrong answer and end up arrested. Can any lawyers chime in and say whether it's better to answer questions or tell him you're going to want to talk to a lawyer first (thereby remaining silent)?

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I carry my NJ FPID card with me at all times. I also carry a pistol permit in my glove box. I travel throughout the state and I like to stop in at gun shops when I in the neighborhood. I like being able to buy a gun or ammo whenever I stumble across something that interests me.

Your NJ FPID card allows you transport a cased and unloaded long gun in your car all the time (as long as you are not transporting onto forbidden locations....schools, gov. buildings etc). Handguns are still regulated by NJ's transportation laws. 

Sadly, I cannot carry a cased, unloaded gun in my car all the time. My work takes me to a school everyday. When school is out, I do transport a take-down .22 rifle everywhere and bring it in every night. If that is the only way to be an armed citizen in NJ, I guess I will take it.

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17 hours ago, jasonx said:

What's the general consensus regarding police questions about origin/destination while transporting a gun? I was reading this:

https://www.state.nj.us/oag/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

and it seems like there's a hundred ways you could give a wrong answer and end up arrested. Can any lawyers chime in and say whether it's better to answer questions or tell him you're going to want to talk to a lawyer first (thereby remaining silent)?

Well these days, thanks to shitty court rulings, not answering a question can be used as a indication of guilt. If you are exercising your right to remain silent, you have to say so. 

Also, historically I've been asked where are you coming from and where are you going rather than specifically about transporting anything. 

Oddly, I was ALWAYS asked that question until I owned firearms. Once I owned them and that question had any remote chance of being even semi-valid, I haven't been asked. 

Answers I have used, which have never resulted in an arrest, and sometimes not even a ticket:

- Why do you ask? (the easiest version to be polite with, if you get officer "I'm asking the questions!" you know you have a turbo asshole, so...) 

-How is that relevant? Is it a moving violation to be traveling to or from someplace specific? 

- I don't see how that is any of your business. 

- Home.  (To both questions, unless I I never plan on going back home or something. Unless they are verifying something specific that has a statute attached to them it's none of their fucking business what stops I make along the way and for how long. Just a note, cops that also happen to be dumb as a fucking stump don't like when you have to explain to them how that shit works, because  they are stupid and don't grasp the concept of time being involved in the question, and might just get all angry that they are bringing up the low side of the bell curve. )

 

 

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8 hours ago, dajonga said:

I carry my NJ FPID card with me at all times. I also carry a pistol permit in my glove box. I travel throughout the state and I like to stop in at gun shops when I in the neighborhood. I like being able to buy a gun or ammo whenever I stumble across something that interests me.

Your NJ FPID card allows you transport a cased and unloaded long gun in your car all the time (as long as you are not transporting onto forbidden locations....schools, gov. buildings etc). Handguns are still regulated by NJ's transportation laws. 

Sadly, I cannot carry a cased, unloaded gun in my car all the time. My work takes me to a school everyday. When school is out, I do transport a take-down .22 rifle everywhere and bring it in every night. If that is the only way to be an armed citizen in NJ, I guess I will take it.

You might be technically legal to carry a long-gun around, unloaded, and in a locked case where legal, but I could almost guarantee that more often than not that if you were driving an SUV and the police officer saw a long-gun case, locked, and in the back of your vehicle, you would not be allowed to go on freely.   You would be taken in whether you had an FID card or not, and would have  an "arrest" record, and you would have some trouble sorting it all out, technically legal or NOT.    Case Law intead of legal statute would be sited in this anti-Right Republic.   And, even if you are going to the range at a suitable time of the day and in the correct direction, it would behoove you to follow all traffic laws and carry an FID card.  Remember, all firearms in NJ are illegal, and unless you fall under one of the exemptions and can prove that you have to an often less-educated person carrying a gun and his or her bosses, then you will have a problem.  

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1 hour ago, Underdog said:

You might be technically legal to carry a long-gun around, unloaded, and in a locked case where legal, but I could almost guarantee that more often than not that if you were driving an SUV and the police officer saw a long-gun case, locked, and in the back of your vehicle, you would not be allowed to go on freely.   You would be taken in whether you had an FID card or not, and would have  an "arrest" record, and you would have some trouble sorting it all out, technically legal or NOT.    Case Law intead of legal statute would be sited in this anti-Right Republic.   And, even if you are going to the range at a suitable time of the day and in the correct direction, it would behoove you to follow all traffic laws and carry an FID card.  Remember, all firearms in NJ are illegal, and unless you fall under one of the exemptions and can prove that you have to an often less-educated person carrying a gun and his or her bosses, then you will have a problem.  

What  “case law” are you referring too exactly?  The situation you just described sounds a lot like illegal detainment and unlawful arrest. 

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That seems to be a growing trend.  I don't agree with it, but you would do that stuff at your peril in this unjust state.  The "case law" would be examples in which legal gun owners have been victimized by this State.  I cannot refer to one exactly with that situation, but look how Bryan Aitken was treated or the host of Gun for Hire.  

If your guns are taken unlawfully and without due process, see how easy it will be for you to get them back and how expensive and time-consuming it will be.  Even if you are found compentent and the court goes in your favor.  Additionally, realize that you would have an "arrest" record AND if even one gun is NOT returned you would not be legally allowed to own guns ANYMORE until you get it back.  And, it could take months to years.  This is not a Republic.

I'm just giving the best advice I can give.  Just because I can legally drive around with a long-arm doesn't mean that it won't create a problem for me.  Handguns and Hollow Points are even more of a problem for you.  Dot your "i"s and cross your "t"s and drive carefully.  

Common sense and justice have little to do with it.  

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   I wasn’t attempting to say your story is far fetched or unrealistic. I study law and was just curious of the case law. I normally do what you just stated. I normally hide everything, keep it out of sight. Drive like a grandma etc. Rather not have any unnecessary interactions with LE period. 

@Underdog

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All this being said remember your in new jersey...….. you say you got off the interstate to take a wiz, the cop says you could have pulled on the shoulder and took a leak on the side of your car. Your being right or wrong,  your still into lawyer fees in the $10k neighborhood.  That is unless you think you have such a slam dunk case (like the example above) and go to a NJ court without a lawyer, in which case your firearm rights should be revoked on the grounds of your being insane 

But to answer the original question, correct me if I'm wrong the only purpose a FID has is to make you eligible to apply for a pistol purchase permit, buy a long gun, or purchase handgun ammo (godda love that last one …… got to be scrutinized to buy ammo) I think the only chance we have in NJ is to get cases to SCOTUS   

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On 9/5/2019 at 6:29 PM, fslater said:

All this being said remember your in new jersey...….. you say you got off the interstate to take a wiz, the cop says you could have pulled on the shoulder and took a leak on the side of your car. Your being right or wrong,  your still into lawyer fees in the $10k neighborhood.  That is unless you think you have such a slam dunk case (like the example above) and go to a NJ court without a lawyer, in which case your firearm rights should be revoked on the grounds of your being insane 

But to answer the original question, correct me if I'm wrong the only purpose a FID has is to make you eligible to apply for a pistol purchase permit, buy a long gun, or purchase handgun ammo (godda love that last one …… got to be scrutinized to buy ammo) I think the only chance we have in NJ is to get cases to SCOTUS   

and CARRY a long gun.

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On 9/5/2019 at 3:16 PM, Underdog said:

You might be technically legal to carry a long-gun around, unloaded, and in a locked case where legal, but I could almost guarantee that more often than not that if you were driving an SUV and the police officer saw a long-gun case, locked, and in the back of your vehicle, you would not be allowed to go on freely.   You would be taken in whether you had an FID card or not, and would have  an "arrest" record, and you would have some trouble sorting it all out, technically legal or NOT.    Case Law intead of legal statute would be sited in this anti-Right Republic.   And, even if you are going to the range at a suitable time of the day and in the correct direction, it would behoove you to follow all traffic laws and carry an FID card.  Remember, all firearms in NJ are illegal, and unless you fall under one of the exemptions and can prove that you have to an often less-educated person carrying a gun and his or her bosses, then you will have a problem.  

Definatly not true. I was rear ended in my wrangler on my way home from shooting Clay's in Clinton a few years ago. I had 3 shotguns in the front passenger compartment in gun socks. The cop looked at them and asked what they were, I answered shotguns. Then he asked if they were unloaded, I said yeah I just shot up all my ammo at the clinton wma. That was the end of the conversation about guns. This was Raritan twp PD 

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17 hours ago, fishnut said:

Definatly not true. I was rear ended in my wrangler on my way home from shooting Clay's in Clinton a few years ago. I had 3 shotguns in the front passenger compartment in gun socks. The cop looked at them and asked what they were, I answered shotguns. Then he asked if they were unloaded, I said yeah I just shot up all my ammo at the clinton wma. That was the end of the conversation about guns. This was Raritan twp PD 

Do what you want to do.  I'm glad it worked out.  You were also coming from a rang e and it sounds like you had a positive LEO which is what it should be.  However wrong time of day, bad day,  skin color, etc and you can find yourself with big and expensive problems.  You cannot guarantee that that WOULD be the outcome and any unjust penalties in this bastion of Statism are excessive.  Even if common  sense and common decency is the norm it isn't always.  In my opinion in NJ caution without paranoia seems to make more sense to me but you are entitled to your opinion.  We do not live in a gunfriendly state and we all roll the dice for being American citizens with natural rights.  Everybody's mileage down the sunset strip may vary, but I gave the best advice I could..

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On 9/4/2019 at 5:54 PM, jasonx said:

Do I need to have my FID card with me when transporting a handgun to and from a range for target practice?

Simple answer:  NO! 

More advanced answer:  In point of fact you don't even need a NJFPID or a P2P in order to OWN a hand gun.  Additionally, out-of-state residents transport hand guns (that have jersey legal mags) to NJ every weekend for matches up & down the entire state.

Advanced answer:  Use the example above^^^ of the out-of-state resident going to a hand gun discipline match for most transport questions.  IF an out-of-state resident can drive directly to & from a match, than a Jersey resident can as well---ALL WITHOUT PAPERS :) 

Study the EXEMPTIONS & EXCEPTIONS of the 2C NJ Firearms laws, for they are your friends.  ALL guns start out by being ILLEGAL in NJ!  Here's a video that explains the concept I just outlined, as well as many different facts about NJ gun law & how screwed-up it is:

  

 

 

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So this weekend I was in a municipality in NJ that allows shooting on private land.  Guns could be heard all day from all around us.  And there we were just a few miles from a NJSP station on my friend's 120 acres popping them off.  Was my to-from transport illegal? Am I allowed such a destination?  I of course observed all the transporting rules of proper containment within the vehicle. 

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48 minutes ago, BobA said:

... my friend's 120 acres popping them off.  Was my to-from transport illegal? Am I allowed such a destination? ...

No. Yes.

 

edited--Based on PK's posting the actual law, then yes it was an illegal transport.

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6 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Was this an "official" range? Very questionable in the state's eyes.

No.  Private property.  But allowed by local codes. Once there I was ok.  I've always wondered about the "to-from" aspect of it.  I know what to say if I get pulled over but I am curious. 

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13 minutes ago, WP22 said:

I'm going by memory but I thought the verbiage was something along the lines of "place of practice"?

Quote

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section

 

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2 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section

So according to this, only the owner can shoot as it is not a recognized "club" that has filed a copy of it's charter. 

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7 minutes ago, BobA said:

So according to this, only the owner can shoot as it is not a recognized "club" that has filed a copy of it's charter. 

That is my interpretation. YMMV

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1 hour ago, BobA said:

So according to this, only the owner can shoot as it is not a recognized "club" that has filed a copy of it's charter. 

MY INTERPRETATION IS MUCH BROADER:

Hey @BobA, it (THE ACTUAL, QUOTED law) doesn't say the "place of practice" has to BE THE SAME AS THE CLUB YOU'RE REGISTERED WITH that submits the List to the NJSP, does it?  Hint:  IT DOESN'T!

Much like the American Express Card, membership in a private club has BENEFITS!  

Yes, it's a hair-splitting example of reading the typewritten word EXACTLY as it's written.  Read it again & again, SLOWLY.  Then remember the laws are written by lawyers who aren't afraid to use an entire tree's worth of pulp to make their verbose points.  For dem lawyers are MORE verbose than I, lol!

Land owners still have more GUN rights in NJ and they can set-up a range and have their friends WHO ARE MEMBERS OF PRIVATE CLUBS THAT SUBMIT A LIST OF NAMES TO NJSP ANNUALLY........ COME & PLINK WITH THEM :) 

FOR EXAMPLE:
A bunch of members of the largest R&P club in NJ ALSO have a private section of land in the Pines to hunt on.  Acres & acres.  They built a range on their property.  Everybody brings guns to sight-in on the property they mutually own & take care of.  Club has Cops who are members, even State Troopers.  Everybody brings their toyz to the woods for a "groom & clear" weekend camp-out at the hunting cabin.   Been around forever, and everyone knows it's THERE!   They "loan" the cabin to the Boy Scouts and Boy Scout Leaders bring an arsenal of firearms to the cabin, including HAND GUNS since the Scouts are actually a co-ed Shooting Venturing Crew.  Yes, female adults are required for all overnight camping!  Guess who was one of the VOLUNTEER Scout Leaders?

Rosey

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