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jasonx

FID card needs to be carried when going to range?

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IANAL, but Rosey is correct. I explicitly discussed this with Evan Nappen at several US Lawshield seminars.  If you are a member of a club that meets the requirements of the 2:39 verbiage that PK90 posted above, then you fall within this additional exemption.

One example of such a conforming private club is Union Hill Gun Club, where I am currently a member.  In contrast, this does not apply to a club such as Garden State Shooting Club, where I was formerly a member. (I confirmed this with Tony in a conversation some time ago).    I assume  because, being a public club renting to walk-ins, does not provide a list of members to the state. 

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15 minutes ago, oldguysrule649 said:

IANAL, but Rosey is correct. I explicitly discussed this with Evan Nappen at several US Lawshield seminars.  If you are a member of a club that meets the requirements of the 2:39 verbiage that PK90 posted above, then you fall within this additional exemption.

One example of such a conforming private club is Union Hill Gun Club, where I am currently a member.  In contrast, this does not apply to a club such as Garden State Shooting Club, where I was formerly a member. (I confirmed this with Tony in a conversation some time ago).    I assume  because, being a public club renting to walk-ins, does not provide a list of members to the state. 

Thanks for your comment and your commitment to the 2nd Amendment!! 

And now I'll add another EXEMPTION being on a private gun club's list provided to NJSP gets you:

I can lend you a hand gun for 7 hrs 59 min & 59 sec's.  So long as I STAY on the range property.  I don't have to babysit you, I don't have to see you or watch you shoot the hand gun.  I can be on a different squad in a different shooting pit.  Hell, I can go take a nap in my vehicle or lay down on a couch in an air conditioned or heated office trailer after I hand you the gun :)   Not only isn't it an "illegal transfer", but it happens all over Jersey every weekend at organized matches throughout the state wherein a competitor's gun breaks OR he/she forgets their gun, ammo, holster, mags, mag pouches, competition speed belt, wallet, or any combination thereof.  Trunks pop open like MAGIC & stuff spills-out onto tailgates so a league member can shoot with their buddies' equipment!  How do I KNOW all this shit?  Cause I WATCHED IT HAPPEN BEFORE MY EYES, that's how!

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

Thanks for your comment and your commitment to the 2nd Amendment!! 

And now I'll add another EXEMPTION being on a private gun club's list provided to NJSP gets you:

I can lend you a hand gun for 7 hrs 59 min & 59 sec's.  So long as I STAY on the range property.  I don't have to babysit you, I don't have to see you or watch you shoot the hand gun.  I can be on a different squad in a different shooting pit.  Hell, I can go take a nap in my vehicle or lay down on a couch in an air conditioned or heated office trailer after I hand you the gun :)   Not only isn't it an "illegal transfer", but it happens all over Jersey every weekend at organized matches throughout the state wherein a competitor's gun breaks OR he/she forgets their gun, ammo, holster, mags, mag pouches, competition speed belt, wallet, or any combination thereof.  Trunks pop open like MAGIC & stuff spills-out onto tailgates so a league member can shoot with their buddies' equipment!  How do I KNOW all this shit?  Cause I WATCHED IT HAPPEN BEFORE MY EYES, that's how!

The nuance with this one is the location has to be club that submitted its membership list - you do not have to be a member. The only get out for the location is to be a certified instructor and the location is "suitable for training", or the person you are doing the temporary transfer to is your child.

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Did we get off the beaten path here? 

@jasonx

No, you do not need to have your FID, BUT as a NJ resident, you should.  More often than not, it may save headaches.

There is a difference between being right and being effective.  Having an FID card will make it more effective.  Plus... it is an extra form of ID and really throws people off when you show it to them. lol.

Along the same lines, while living in NJ, I generally said to carry a copy of the pistol permit, but never had to use it.

As others mentioned, the FID and pistol permits are to purchase new firearms, but not to own.

The other aspect is... with the latest anti-gun moves, quite frankly many gun owners in NJ simply don't care anymore. 

as @dajonga mentioned, having a pistol permit (usable) in the car is both a good and bad idea.  Never know when a deal pops up, but you also have it burning a hole in your wallet. lol.  For FID, some stores who may not know you, may ask for FID to even look at guns.

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9 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The nuance with this one is the location has to be club that submitted its membership list - you do not have to be a member. The only get out for the location is to be a certified instructor and the location is "suitable for training", or the person you are doing the temporary transfer to is your child.

Thanks @Mr.Stu.  Nuance & interpretation is where FREEDOM LIVES!  :) 

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In NJ we have FPIDs, not FIDs nor FOIDs; Firearm PURCHASER Identification cards. The state does not issue IDs to own firearms. You do not need to carry a FPID with you for simply owning firearms. You are required to present your FPID when purchasing a firearm. Do not listen to such arbitrary advice that one should carry their FPID to “avoid headaches”.

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On 10/1/2019 at 6:53 AM, SJG said:

Question for law enforcement: Does NJ DL database check cross reference if the holder is also the holder of a NJ FPID card?

What about State Issued ID card and NJ FPID card?

Didn't in 2010. Now? :dontknow:

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I know this is a old thread and topic, but I just saw this on a email I got  from reloaderz and have questions.

1- thought if your renting alone you just needed a drivers lic. What if you don't have a FID CARD.

1b - if I'm a member shooting alone,  I need my FID Card, 

Are insurance companies now getting involved.

2- I know it's good to have, but is it now a law that you do need it to transport.

3- Again, I know it's better to have card with you, would a copy suffice?

I'm calling about 1b tomorrow.

IMPORTANT
 
Although this has been a policy since Reloaderz NJ inception, we are mandating it effective immediately. If you are shooting alone, you need to bring your current FID with you EVERY VISIT. In addition to it being a law for transporting firearms throughout the state, our insurance policy mandates this. For everyone’s safety this is a must and now in effect. If you have any questions please call me.

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8 minutes ago, Bklynracer said:

I know this is a old thread and topic, but I just saw this on a email I got  from reloaderz and have questions.

1- thought if your renting alone you just needed a drivers lic. What if you don't have a FID CARD.

1b - if I'm a member shooting alone,  I need my FID Card, 

Are insurance companies now getting involved.

2- I know it's good to have, but is it now a law that you do need it to transport.

3- Again, I know it's better to have card with you, would a copy suffice?

I'm calling about 1b tomorrow.

IMPORTANT
 
Although this has been a policy since Reloaderz NJ inception, we are mandating it effective immediately. If you are shooting alone, you need to bring your current FID with you EVERY VISIT. In addition to it being a law for transporting firearms throughout the state, our insurance policy mandates this. For everyone’s safety this is a must and now in effect. If you have any questions please call me.

My understanding is the FID card has nothing to do with transporting or owning firearms and everything to do with buying or otherwise acquiring them (except for certain very limited exceptions, such as: moving to the state from another state and bringing legally owned guns with you, inheriting firearms). FID aside, owning and carrying firearms in NJ is still so heavily restricted that it's almost illegal.

I'm not sure where they got the transportation/FID law from. Otherwise by being a private company they can set pretty much any policy they want.

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1 hour ago, jasonx said:

My understanding is the FID card has nothing to do with transporting or owning firearms and everything to do with buying or otherwise acquiring them (except for certain very limited exceptions, such as: moving to the state from another state and bringing legally owned guns with you, inheriting firearms). FID aside, owning and carrying firearms in NJ is still so heavily restricted that it's almost illegal.

I'm not sure where they got the transportation/FID law from. Otherwise by being a private company they can set pretty much any policy they want.

Your FPIC allows you to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun almost anywhere. It provides nothing with regard to handguns except to allow you to buy handgun ammunition. You need a permit to carry a handgun to take a handgun with you outside of the exemptions and we all know how many of those are issued.

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44 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Your FPIC allows you to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun almost anywhere. It provides nothing with regard to handguns except to allow you to buy handgun ammunition. You need a permit to carry a handgun to take a handgun with you outside of the exemptions and we all know how many of those are issued.

"Carry" an unloaded rifle or shotgun? You mean locked in the trunk of your car? I do recall hearing something about open carry in NJ, but didn't know it was allowed in practice.

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6 hours ago, jasonx said:

"Carry" an unloaded rifle or shotgun? You mean locked in the trunk of your car? I do recall hearing something about open carry in NJ, but didn't know it was allowed in practice.

What if your walking to the range or riding a bike or motorcycle? There is no law that requires one to transport firearms in a car. 

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8 hours ago, jasonx said:

"Carry" an unloaded rifle or shotgun? You mean locked in the trunk of your car? I do recall hearing something about open carry in NJ, but didn't know it was allowed in practice.

Locked in the trunk is one of the options if you're transporting under the exemptions. 

 

I said carry, because I meant carry. Will you attract unwanted attention from the police if you are not discreet? Definitely yes, but you are ok within the firearms laws. If you're waving it around you'll probably catch a charge for causing public alarm or similar, but not one for possession of the firearm - if you have been issued an FPIC.

 

Watch this - Evan Happen makes his point at the NJ SAFE conference a few years ago. The power died so it was done with flashlights. There were NJSP troopers in the audience who were there to speak too.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

I know this is a old thread and topic, but I just saw this on a email I got  from reloaderz and have questions.

1- thought if your renting alone you just needed a drivers lic. What if you don't have a FID CARD.

1b - if I'm a member shooting alone,  I need my FID Card, 

Are insurance companies now getting involved.

2- I know it's good to have, but is it now a law that you do need it to transport.

3- Again, I know it's better to have card with you, would a copy suffice?

I'm calling about 1b tomorrow.

IMPORTANT
 
Although this has been a policy since Reloaderz NJ inception, we are mandating it effective immediately. If you are shooting alone, you need to bring your current FID with you EVERY VISIT. In addition to it being a law for transporting firearms throughout the state, our insurance policy mandates this. For everyone’s safety this is a must and now in effect. If you have any questions please call me.

I'll handle this one question at a time, applying out-of-the-box thinking and actual examples I've eye-witnessed.  Here goes:

1.  Rules set by commercial ranges can change like spools of toilet paper.  If they say you have to shoot on one foot weak-handed, then that's what everybody has to do or risk getting thrown-out.  This enforcement is due to a commercial insurance carrier's Underwriter doing their due diligence via a suicide threat assessment and is implemented to offset an extremely high insurance premium.  It's a choice every commercial range that rents firearms (and has this bidness model) figures out on its own and puts into effect.  Insurance carriers get involved at ranges before the first cement block is laid to create the foundation, let alone establish "rules" put into place to reduce suicides.  Since all private clubs mandate you be a NJFPID card holder on their applications, this "rule" by commercial ranges isn't needed.  A gun owner & NJFPID card holder doesn't need to rent a gun to take their life.  It HAS happened at a commercial NJ range, but is EXTREMELY RARE! 

Many foreign nationals from communist countries get a taste of freedom at commercial ranges.  None of THEM have NJ or ANY other driver's license.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  In fact, foreign nationals represent a huge target market that keeps commercial ranges BUSY and PROFITABLE!  A foursome arrives in an Uber from NYC and drops $150 - $200 per head for rental guns,  lots of ammo and instruction.  It's like going to Disney only LOUDER!

2.  In a one word answer, NO!  Here's WHY:

A NJFPID card has never been required by law to transport firearms!  One reason is a NJFPID card holder has to be 18 years old.  NJ Fish & Wildlife issues hunting licenses to 10 year olds (they need to be accompanied by parent or guardian), and allows kids to HUNT BY THEMSELVES before they're allowed to drive!  So if the "Yellow Card" was mandatory, every 17 year old licensed driver who hunts in NJ with his Mom's or Dad's scattergun would be guilty of an indictable offense (FELONY!) for merely driving the empty scattergun & ammo to the hunting location!

New arrivals to NJ from out of state can bring-in their 200 gun collections and never register in NJ as a gun owner.  So long as there aren't any semi-auto long guns with EVIL features (a scattergun that holds more than 6 rounds or has a pistol grip, and of course rifles with only 2 evil features plus the pistol grip) or external mags that hold more than 10 rounds (.22 semi-auto pea shooters actually got a break---signed into law by Murphy!--so 18 round tubular mags are back to being street-legal), those new residents OR VISITORS are "golden"...

No one ever arrested a surviving spouse for illegally transporting their spouse's firearms (registered or NOT) to ANY EXEMPT LOCATION!  Appraiser, FFL, Gunsmith, range, hunting field, etc., etc., etc.  Lord knows plenty of firearm owners have left this mortal coil, so where are all the inmates guilty of a felony for transporting w/o a "Yellow Card"?

A 18 year old "kid" can be willed firearms (long gun only), and a 21 year old can legally transport hand guns willed to them.  Neither kid needs a yellow card to take their deceased relative's firearms to the range or any other exempt location.  Which is why none of them are sittin' in jail...

3.  Technically speaking, by the letter of the law, having your FPID card WITH YOU while transporting IS NOT REQUIRED!  It's the most common NJ firearms law myth after "hollow points are illegal".  Nowhere is it written in the 2C statutes that you must POSSESS IT while transporting.  The law merely stipulates that it only be "OBTAINED", thus creating your SBI number.  Further investigation on your part will conclude that there isn't ANY law or PENALTY written that indicates POSSESSION must be accommodated to be within the written exemption.  Refer back to the 17 year old hunter above...

Summation:

1b above is merely a "range rule" designed to lower insurance rates thereby keeping cost of doing bidness and the resultant annual dues, port fees, etc. at a commercial range, UNDER CONTROL!

Additionally, if a NJ multi-millionaire that had multiple residences spread throughout NJ's 21 counties, leaving his/her yellow card in Bergen county never stopped them from bringing firearms to their shore house for plinking, competition OR self-defense.

I hope I've been helpful.  Thanks again for your steadfast support of 2A & CNJFO in particular!

Rosey

When this young women turns 21 she'll be able to transport her granddad's .357 that was willed to her and do so w/o a yellow card!

Image may contain: 1 person, smiling

 

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