Shepherd9 215 Posted February 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, Philasipha said: WIth the 11.3, did you need to pin the muzzle device in order to satisfy the OAL requirement? Yes, unfortunately, as I still came in just shy of 26 inches with the 11.3" with standard receiver extension. I would have needed to switch to an A5 system to get over 26" oal. I was right around 25 5/8" so it was close Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 12, 2021 Does anyone know if you can build an “other” with a Bear Creek side charging upper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted May 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, EaglesNation2016 said: Does anyone know if you can build an “other” with a Bear Creek side charging upper? Of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Krdshrk said: Of course. Thanks , I was not sure because I know you’re supposed to replicate the Troy DSI models. Has anyone here build one with a side charging upper ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, EaglesNation2016 said: Thanks , I was not sure because I know you’re supposed to replicate the Troy DSI models. Not at all - There are other Non-NFA firearms out there - look at the Mossberg Shockwave for example. It doesn't have to be a replicate of other ARs - you just need a 26" OAL, VFG and pistol brace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: Not at all - There are other Non-NFA firearms out there - look at the Mossberg Shockwave for example. It doesn't have to be a replicate of other ARs - you just need a 26" OAL, VFG and pistol brace. Doesn’t require a pistol brace - it just can’t have a stock. You can run a bare receiver extension if you want. Hell, with a barrel long enough to make the length requirement, you can run something like an AK under folder with the stock removed and be ok. (Still need the VFG) 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
H J Daly 1 Posted May 15, 2021 according to chart this extended tube https://www.thordsencustoms.com/kak-tc-extended-buffer-tube-for-frs-15-and-ar-pistol/.html with this upper assembly https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-chf-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-9-lightweight-m-lok-railed-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-51654486742.html would put me at/over 26. Would this be correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted May 15, 2021 10 hours ago, H J Daly said: according to chart this extended tube https://www.thordsencustoms.com/kak-tc-extended-buffer-tube-for-frs-15-and-ar-pistol/.html with this upper assembly https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-chf-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-9-lightweight-m-lok-railed-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-51654486742.html would put me at/over 26. Would this be correct? No, using this chart: That buffer tube's OAL is 8.2" as published on their site. 10.5" barrel + 7.625" (upper length) + 8.2" (buffer tube length) -.5" (for the length of the buffer that goes into the upper) = 25.825" - under 26" OAL. You would need to pin and weld the muzzle device to make 26". 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/14/2021 at 9:49 PM, H J Daly said: according to chart this extended tube https://www.thordsencustoms.com/kak-tc-extended-buffer-tube-for-frs-15-and-ar-pistol/.html with this upper assembly https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-chf-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-9-lightweight-m-lok-railed-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-51654486742.html would put me at/over 26. Would this be correct? https://gearheadworks.com/product/pistol-buffer-tube/ Works with Tailhook Mod 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
H J Daly 1 Posted May 18, 2021 thanks a lot 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, H J Daly said: thanks a lot Midway USA has all braces and tubes on sale up to 30% off. You have to add to cart to see the price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 25, 2021 Hey Guys are flash/ blast cans legal in NJ? I keep getting different answers. Some saying they are because they are considered a linear compensator. However some say you cannot have a large opening in the muzzle device such as a flash can. I’m specifically talking about this muzzle flash can from PSA https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-custom-series-5-56-fluted-flash-can-1-2x28.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted May 25, 2021 Are you looking to put this on a normal rifle or a non-NFA gun? On a non-NFA gun, you can basically use any muzzle device you want ( except a suppressor) since it doesnt need to adhere to NJ AWB (because its not a rifle, nor a pistol). If used on a normal rifle, I believe the answer should be yes as well. Ive never heard of anyone saying blast shields are illegal in NJ. Its not described as a flash hider and in the description specifically states that its only meant to direct blast and sound down range. I have a Griffin blast shield and it works well inside so you arent annoying your neighbors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 25, 2021 59 minutes ago, shooter28 said: Are you looking to put this on a normal rifle or a non-NFA gun? On a non-NFA gun, you can basically use any muzzle device you want ( except a suppressor) since it doesnt need to adhere to NJ AWB (because its not a rifle, nor a pistol). If used on a normal rifle, I believe the answer should be yes as well. Ive never heard of anyone saying blast shields are illegal in NJ. Its not described as a flash hider and in the description specifically states that its only meant to direct blast and sound down range. I have a Griffin blast shield and it works well inside so you arent annoying your neighbors. Its for an "Other" build. Specifically the Palmetto State Armory complete upper with the PSA "flash can". I dropped it off to my local FFL and was told by the gunsmith that because you can fit your finger inside of it, its illegal. As this conversation was commencing another employee told the worker that he was wrong and it was legal because its considered a linear compensator. Needless to say they are now going to pin/weld the muzzle on however still left me feeling worried. For a little info about the build : 10.5 inch PSA Upper with 3" flash can (Makes it over 26" when pin/weld is done). Anderson lower with SBA3. VFG installed to make it a legal "other". Also a discussion about building an other was brought up while I was in there. That same employee stated you cant build an other because it doesnt have "other" engraved. Again the other employee stated that he was wrong. I am tired of getting different answers from people who are supposed to give you legal advise. This was at a gun store in my area. Thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted May 25, 2021 Your gunsmith is wrong on both accounts. Even if this was a flash hider, it doesnt matter on "Others" because the AWB rules do not apply. I have seen some manufacturers engrave "Other" on the side but it serves no legal purpose. As long as the receiver you are building on was not a rifle previously ( scouts honor!) any stripped lower receiver will work. What shop is this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, shooter28 said: Your gunsmith is wrong on both accounts. Even if this was a flash hider, it doesnt matter on "Others" because the AWB rules do not apply. I have seen some manufacturers engrave "Other" on the side but it serves no legal purpose. As long as the receiver you are building on was not a rifle previously ( scouts honor!) any stripped lower receiver will work. What shop is this? I was not aware of all that info however was almost positive the flash cans are legal due to it be considered a compensator. And yes the receiver was purchased as a stripped lower and registered as other. And the shop is United Uniforms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, EaglesNation2016 said: Also a discussion about building an other was brought up while I was in there. That same employee stated you cant build an other because it doesnt have "other" engraved. Again the other employee stated that he was wrong. I am tired of getting different answers from people who are supposed to give you legal advise. This was at a gun store in my area. Thank you Blast dissipators/diverters/diffusers are not considered flash hiders in NJ. The pinky test is not a real test. In any event, all flash hiders are legal in NJ in and of themselves. They are merely one of the 6 features on the “evil” list that defines “Assault Weapons” in NJ. You are permitted to install two of the “evil” features on a Semi-Auto rifle and still be legal in NJ. A flash hider does not become illegal until it is the third “evil” feature on a semi-auto. And even then, it isn’t the muzzle device that is illegal, it’s the entire firearm. • You can put flashiders on bolt guns. • You can put a flash hider on a Mini14 or Fight Light SCR with no issues (the flash hider replaces the non-existent pistol grip for your second evil feature). Since an “OTHER” or SBF is defined as a firearm and decidedly not a rifle, the Assault Weapon restrictions/definitions do not apply. You do have to follow the federal definitions to avoid inadvertently building an AOW or SBR: SBF Requirements: • Over 26” in length (measured from the back of the receiver extension with the brace off to the end of the unpinned barrel or pinned muzzle device) • It can not have a stock (can have a brace or a naked receiver extension) • It must have a VFG (AFG types are not acceptable) • The lower must have been transferred as an “other” not as a complete rifle, and have never had a stock installed. Some manufacturers are engraving “SBF” or “Other” on the lower as part of the serial or model number as a marketing tool. It’s a nice feature but is not a necessary step to possess a legal SBF. If you were in a state (definitely not NJ) that permitted Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns (SBR/SBS) and filed the appropriate NFA paperwork (Form 1) with the Feds to convert a rifle or shotgun into an SBR/SBS then you would have to engrave the lower accordingly - But you do not have to do that for an SBF. Finally - And this is important - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! I repeat - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! Do not rely on gun counter salespeople to keep you out of jail, or to sell you things that you can technically have but the employee doesn’t think so. They are paid to sell guns and keep the shop out of trouble. They are not required to have any training or certification in NJ or Federal laws past what is required to take your money, get you through NICS, and get you out the door. Take legal advice from lawyers*. * Yes, that includes advice on Gun Forums - including what I wrote above. I am not a lawyer. Accept what I said above at your own risk. If you don’t know, research what you learned and vet what you hear/read here and elsewhere. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted May 25, 2021 50 minutes ago, High Exposure said: Blast dissipators/diverters/diffusers are not considered flash hiders in NJ. The pinky test is not a real test. In any event, all flash hiders are legal in NJ in and of themselves. They are merely one of the 6 features on the “evil” list that defines “Assault Weapons” in NJ. You are permitted to install two of the “evil” features on a Semi-Auto rifle and still be legal in NJ. A flash hider does not become illegal until it is the third “evil” feature on a semi-auto. And even then, it isn’t the muzzle device that is illegal, it’s the entire firearm. • You can put flashiders on bolt guns. • You can put a flash hider on a Mini14 or Fight Light SCR with no issues (the flash hider replaces the non-existent pistol grip for your second evil feature). Since an “OTHER” or SBF is defined as a firearm and decidedly not a rifle, the Assault Weapon restrictions/definitions do not apply. You do have to follow the federal definitions to avoid inadvertently building an AOW or SBR: SBF Requirements: • Over 26” in length (measured from the back of the receiver extension with the brace off to the end of the unpinned barrel or pinned muzzle device) • It can not have a stock (can have a brace or a naked receiver extension) • It must have a VFG (AFG types are not acceptable) • The lower must have been transferred as an “other” not as a complete rifle, and have never had a stock installed. Some manufacturers are engraving “SBF” or “Other” on the lower as part of the serial or model number as a marketing tool. It’s a nice feature but is not a necessary step to possess a legal SBF. If you were in a state (definitely not NJ) that permitted Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns (SBR/SBS) and filed the appropriate NFA paperwork (Form 1) with the Feds to convert a rifle or shotgun into an SBR/SBS then you would have to engrave the lower accordingly - But you do not have to do that for an SBF. Finally - And this is important - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! I repeat - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! Do not rely on gun counter salespeople to keep you out of jail, or to sell you things that you can technically have but the employee doesn’t think so. They are paid to sell guns and keep the shop out of trouble. They are not required to have any training or certification in NJ or Federal laws past what is required to take your money, get you through NICS, and get you out the door. Take legal advice from lawyers*. * Yes, that includes advice on Gun Forums - including what I wrote above. I am not a lawyer. Accept what I said above at your own risk. If you don’t know, research what you learned and vet what you hear/read here and elsewhere. HE nails it again! This guy knows what he is talking about. Incidentally, I am also not an attorney, you did not pay for my opinion of HE and therefore should not take anything in this post as true without independent verification. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Headin South 1 Posted May 25, 2021 2 hours ago, High Exposure said: Blast dissipators/diverters/diffusers are not considered flash hiders in NJ. The pinky test is not a real test. In any event, all flash hiders are legal in NJ in and of themselves. They are merely one of the 6 features on the “evil” list that defines “Assault Weapons” in NJ. You are permitted to install two of the “evil” features on a Semi-Auto rifle and still be legal in NJ. A flash hider does not become illegal until it is the third “evil” feature on a semi-auto. And even then, it isn’t the muzzle device that is illegal, it’s the entire firearm. • You can put flashiders on bolt guns. • You can put a flash hider on a Mini14 or Fight Light SCR with no issues (the flash hider replaces the non-existent pistol grip for your second evil feature). Since an “OTHER” or SBF is defined as a firearm and decidedly not a rifle, the Assault Weapon restrictions/definitions do not apply. You do have to follow the federal definitions to avoid inadvertently building an AOW or SBR: SBF Requirements: • Over 26” in length (measured from the back of the receiver extension with the brace off to the end of the unpinned barrel or pinned muzzle device) • It can not have a stock (can have a brace or a naked receiver extension) • It must have a VFG (AFG types are not acceptable) • The lower must have been transferred as an “other” not as a complete rifle, and have never had a stock installed. Some manufacturers are engraving “SBF” or “Other” on the lower as part of the serial or model number as a marketing tool. It’s a nice feature but is not a necessary step to possess a legal SBF. If you were in a state (definitely not NJ) that permitted Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns (SBR/SBS) and filed the appropriate NFA paperwork (Form 1) with the Feds to convert a rifle or shotgun into an SBR/SBS then you would have to engrave the lower accordingly - But you do not have to do that for an SBF. Finally - And this is important - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! I repeat - GUN STORE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT PAID TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE!! Do not rely on gun counter salespeople to keep you out of jail, or to sell you things that you can technically have but the employee doesn’t think so. They are paid to sell guns and keep the shop out of trouble. They are not required to have any training or certification in NJ or Federal laws past what is required to take your money, get you through NICS, and get you out the door. Take legal advice from lawyers*. * Yes, that includes advice on Gun Forums - including what I wrote above. I am not a lawyer. Accept what I said above at your own risk. If you don’t know, research what you learned and vet what you hear/read here and elsewhere. I notice you mention the Mini-14. I remember that rifle being on the banned by name "assault rifle" list in NJ law. Has something changed or am I misremembering? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 25, 2021 The standard Mini-14 with full fixed stock is NJ legal. The pistol grip models and the versions with folding stocks are banned by name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Headin South 1 Posted May 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, High Exposure said: The standard Mini-14 with full fixed stock is NJ legal. The pistol grip models and the versions with folding stocks are banned by name. Would this also apply to the M1 Carbine? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 25, 2021 All M1 carbine variants are banned by name IMO 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: HE nails it again! This guy knows what he is talking about. Incidentally, I am also not an attorney, you did not pay for my opinion of HE and therefore should not take anything in this post as true without independent verification. Where is this so called independent verification? No one seems to give a straight answer , that’s why we come to this page lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted May 25, 2021 36 minutes ago, EaglesNation2016 said: Where is this so called independent verification? No one seems to give a straight answer , that’s why we come to this page lol If you met him, you could form your own opinion. He's a stand up guy - doesn't stand up very high - but stand up nonetheless. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said: If you met him, you could form your own opinion. He's a stand up guy - doesn't stand up very high - but stand up nonetheless. Thanks bro. I like to refer to it as the late great Pat Rogers did - Warrior Sized 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 25, 2021 3 hours ago, EaglesNation2016 said: Where is this so called independent verification? No one seems to give a straight answer , that’s why we come to this page lol Personally, I look up the appropriate laws, statutes, guiding documents, directives, and guidelines myself and then I talk them over with people I personally know and trust. Some are in the firearms industry, some are LE, some are knowledgeable regular earth people. When that feels complete - I take MY chances on MY decision based on MY research and MY formulated opinion. I definitely don’t rely on gun store counter guys that I don’t know. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EaglesNation2016 0 Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, High Exposure said: Personally, I look up the appropriate laws, statutes, guiding documents, directives, and guidelines myself and then I talk them over with people I personally know and trust. Some are in the firearms industry, some are LE, some are knowledgeable regular earth people. When that feels complete - I take my chances on MY decision based on MY opinion. I definitely don’t rely on gun store counter guys that I don’t know. There isn’t any clear laws, and this is coming from an active LEO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, EaglesNation2016 said: There isn’t any clear laws, and this is coming from an active LEO The SBF laws are clear enough. It gets confusing when folks try to get cute and play the “how about” game to find new loopholes or to make the laws creatively work for the gun they have their heart set on, when in reality they don’t. For the most part, I find they are relatively straight forward and easy enough to stay on the correct side of things - even if I don’t agree with them - with some noted exceptions. If you’re LEO, keep your eyes open - the NJSP Firearms Unit offer classes for LEO on FARS and NJ Gun laws that are pretty good. They charge a nominal fee - like $30 - that your command staff shouldn’t balk at. I think you can also pay your own way and go on your own time if your Dept. policies allow for that. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,654 Posted May 26, 2021 On 5/25/2021 at 5:59 PM, High Exposure said: Thanks bro. I like to refer to it as the late great Pat Rogers did - Warrior Sized Fun size warrior? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said: Fun size warrior? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites