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antimatter

Is this considered a dagger?

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On 9/17/2019 at 6:23 PM, antimatter said:

A dagger is defined as a stabbing weapon with two or more edges.

#1.  The tactical knife you linked has a spearpoint geometry - it is made for stabbing, a key characteristic of a dagger.

#2.  The tactical knife you linked also has more than one edge - another key characteristic of a dagger.

From legal perspective, the knife you linked IS a dagger because it meets conditions #1 & #2.

In accordance with New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice 2C:39-3e, 

Quote

Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

Translation: You CANNOT legally own a dagger without an "explainable lawful purpose".  If a police searches your home and finds that knife of yours, you will most likely get arrested.  And good luck trying to explain in court why you need to have a dagger designed for close quarters combat in your possession.

In many ways, I think owning a knife in NJ is more troublesome than owning a gun.

 

-Kiku-

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2 hours ago, Kiku said:

A dagger is defined as a stabbing weapon with two or more edges.

#1.  The tactical knife you linked has a spearpoint geometry - it is made for stabbing, a key characteristic of a dagger.

#2.  The tactical knife you linked also has more than one edge - another key characteristic of a dagger.

From legal perspective, the knife you linked IS a dagger because it meets conditions #1 & #2.

In accordance with New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice 2C:39-3e, 

Translation: You CANNOT legally own a dagger without an "explainable lawful purpose".  If a police searches your home and finds that knife of yours, you will most likely get arrested.  And good luck trying to explain in court why you need to have a dagger designed for close quarters combat in your possession.

In many ways, I think owning a knife in NJ is more troublesome than owning a gun.

 

-Kiku-

If the police are searching your house, under warrant, you have bigger problems than a folding knife that *may* be considered a dagger.

Establish your a 'collector' BY YOUR collection...

Again that being said, i would personally NOT carry a double edged knife, anywhere.

 

Ymmv

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Aren't you guys knife collectors? There's your "explainable lawful purpose". Switchblade are then also legal to own.

Make up some business cards on your computer stating that that is your hobby, "Joe Blow's Exotic Cutlery". Keep them in your wallet, car, and with every knife you own.

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2 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Aren't you guys knife collectors? There's your "explainable lawful purpose". Switchblade are then also legal to own.

Make up some business cards on your computer stating that that is your hobby, "Joe Blow's Exotic Cutlery". Keep them in your wallet, car, and with every knife you own.

Why make up fake business cards just to prove to others that machirology is one's hobby?

Since when in NJ require business cards to justify one's hobby?  It's an absurd notion.

If verbal justification for owning "illegal" knives in one's own home isn't good enough to get that person out of trouble, then the chances are that it won't matter whether that person coughs up some fake business cards to support machirology as his/her hobby.

I've thought very hard about an "explainable lawful purpose" for owning a dagger that can pull oneself out of legal trouble in NJ.  I have yet to come up with one.

Better yet, what if one happens to own a dagger 'inadvertently' in NJ, then tries to get rid of it by selling it online?  If it is illegal to own one, then I am quite sure it's also illegal to sell it in this state.

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2 hours ago, Kiku said:

Why make up fake business cards just to prove to others that machirology is one's hobby?

Since when in NJ require business cards to justify one's hobby?  It's an absurd notion.

If verbal justification for owning "illegal" knives in one's own home isn't good enough to get that person out of trouble, then the chances are that it won't matter whether that person coughs up some fake business cards to support machirology as his/her hobby.

I've thought very hard about an "explainable lawful purpose" for owning a dagger that can pull oneself out of legal trouble in NJ.  I have yet to come up with one.

Better yet, what if one happens to own a dagger 'inadvertently' in NJ, then tries to get rid of it by selling it online?  If it is illegal to own one, then I am quite sure it's also illegal to sell it in this state.

Whoa!!!!  You're the one with the police searching your house just a few posts up.

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45 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Whoa!!!!  You're the one with the police searching your house just a few posts up.

What are you talking about?  Why would the police come to search my house?

I was speaking hypothetically in my earlier post about a scenario in which IF the police were to find a dagger in one's possession, especially like the one linked in the original post by the forum member "antimatter", then coming up with a legitimate "explainable lawful purpose" that will hold up in the court would be virtually impossible.  I'm no lawyer, but merely claiming machirology as one's hobby isn't going to let that person off the hook.

As forum member "USRifle30Cal" pointed out, if and when the police does come to search one's house with a warrant, then the chances are that person has a BIGGER problem than merely owning an illegal weapon.

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3 minutes ago, Kiku said:

What are you talking about?  Why would the police come to search my house?

I was speaking hypothetically in my earlier post about a scenario in which IF the police were to find a dagger in one's possession, especially like the one linked in the original post by the forum member "antimatter", then coming up with a legitimate "explainable lawful purpose" that will hold up in the court would be virtually impossible.  I'm no lawyer, but merely claiming machirology as one's hobby isn't going to let that person off the hook.

As forum member "USRifle30Cal" pointed out, if and when the police does come to search one's house with a warrant, then the chances are that person has a BIGGER problem than merely owning an illegal weapon.

You came up with the scenario I didn't. We can all come up with hypothetical scenarios.

Can you find me anyone who has been arrested for illegal possession of a dagger in their home?

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4 hours ago, Kiku said:

Why make up fake business cards just to prove to others that machirology is one's hobby?

Since when in NJ require business cards to justify one's hobby?  It's an absurd notion.

If verbal justification for owning "illegal" knives in one's own home isn't good enough to get that person out of trouble, then the chances are that it won't matter whether that person coughs up some fake business cards to support machirology as his/her hobby.

I've thought very hard about an "explainable lawful purpose" for owning a dagger that can pull oneself out of legal trouble in NJ.  I have yet to come up with one.

Better yet, what if one happens to own a dagger 'inadvertently' in NJ, then tries to get rid of it by selling it online?  If it is illegal to own one, then I am quite sure it's also illegal to sell it in this state.

Wait so I should get rid of my US Trapdoor - tri blade bayonet - ya know those tri edge blades cant be sewn up ....  really nasty stuff....

 

We are making shit up - this is so effing easy - buy what you want - keep em at home as part of a collection.

 

Wanna carry a gravity knife, dagger, dirk, double edge blade in public - you take your chances.

 

NO ONE IS COMING TO YOUR HOUSE UNDER WARRANT LOOKING FOR A DAGGER....  NOT HAPPENING !

 

Again - if they are there under warrant you have bigger issues and are looking for a specific item as enumerated within the warrant.

 

I am not a LEO/Prosecutor etc...and I hate holiday in express.....  :)

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I have several switch blades, gravity knives and daggers most were bought online and kept at my home as part of my collection while I lived in NJ. No men in black ever came to raid my house for purchasing switch blades online. My favorite is my lone wolf lobo. 

Up here switch blades are legal for everyone to own and carry and there is 2 stores in town that have a very nice selection of them. I wish I had the coin to drop on a microtek OTF switchblade. 

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Dirks are also "illegal" but really, WTF? I bet most prosecutors could not spell dirk. How about my law: Any edged weapon is OK unless used for an unlawful purpose?

This coming from a guy that wears a sheathed bayonet WHEN I AM DIGGING WEEDS IN THE YARD!!!!!!

It's a tool, not a weapon for Christ's sake.

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7 hours ago, fishnut said:

I have several switch blades, gravity knives and daggers most were bought online and kept at my home as part of my collection while I lived in NJ. No men in black ever came to raid my house for purchasing switch blades online. My favorite is my lone wolf lobo. 

Up here switch blades are legal for everyone to own and carry and there is 2 stores in town that have a very nice selection of them. I wish I had the coin to drop on a microtek OTF switchblade. 

Thanks  for the info, fishnut.  Correct me if I am wrong here, but I thought switchblades are illegal to OWN throughout the entire NJ?

I am glad nobody took your knives away.  I am sure police has far more important work to do than to bust into someone's home to confiscate their prized collections.

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19 hours ago, Kiku said:

Thanks  for the info, fishnut.  Correct me if I am wrong here, but I thought switchblades are illegal to OWN throughout the entire NJ?

I am glad nobody took your knives away.  I am sure police has far more important work to do than to bust into someone's home to confiscate their prized collections.

Collecting switchblade and other knives is an explainable lawful purpose. 

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