Florida Red Flag Usage

[oldguysrule649 397]

 

This article in the Florida Sun-Sentinal really caught my eye.  Entitled "Thousands of guns taken under Red Flag law, but South Florida lags in applying it".

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/crime/fl-ne-red-flag-law-review-20190921-ygedayoyybaczmpzrrsy7kssdu-story.html

It is mainly criticizing the fact that some counties are using it less aggressively than others.  But that aside, it is the frequency with which it has been used strikes me as quite alarming.

One quote:   "Florida has taken guns away from 2,000 residents in the year and a half since the state passed its Red Flag law, ......"

And for anyone who still thinks that judges will respect and protect due process:  "So far, judges have gone along with law enforcement a vast majority of the time — nearly 97 percent of temporary orders and 99 percent of final orders are granted statewide."

If this is the state of affairs in 2A friendly Florida, just imagine the draconian way NJ's Red Flag laws can be applied here.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

9 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

 

If this is the state of affairs in 2A friendly Florida, just imagine the draconian way NJ's Red Flag laws can be applied here.

well considering that according to the wording of our statutes, all ifrearms are illegal(with exceptions and exemptions) i think that many more will be victimized than expect it.

[SJG 253]

10 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

 

This article in the Florida Sun-Sentinal really caught my eye.  Entitled "Thousands of guns taken under Red Flag law, but South Florida lags in applying it".

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/crime/fl-ne-red-flag-law-review-20190921-ygedayoyybaczmpzrrsy7kssdu-story.html

It is mainly criticizing the fact that some counties are using it less aggressively than others.  But that aside, it is the frequency with which it has been used strikes me as quite alarming.

One quote:   "Florida has taken guns away from 2,000 residents in the year and a half since the state passed its Red Flag law, ......"

And for anyone who still thinks that judges will respect and protect due process:  "So far, judges have gone along with law enforcement a vast majority of the time — nearly 97 percent of temporary orders and 99 percent of final orders are granted statewide."

If this is the state of affairs in 2A friendly Florida, just imagine the draconian way NJ's Red Flag laws can be applied here.

You need to read this article in context since the number of gun owners in Fl far exceeds that in NJ as does the number of guns  in the State as well as the general population. I have not seen a figure on the number of guns owned  per owner but I am sure that is substantial. Another factor is the number of DV and other incidents compared to NJ. The 97% and 99% figure is also curious. It may mean that the police correctly apply the law 99% of the time of greater concern would be a low percentage of final orders per the overall amount of seizures.  An interesting prospective study would be to see of the number of persons "red flagged" how many of them  had prior criminal records or go on to commit crimes with or without firearms or explosives. I think the "jury" will be out on red flag laws for several years until studies will be done to determine how effective they really are. IMO if these laws are properly applied and post seizure due process hearings held they can be effective.

[Underdog 1,593]

Red flag laws are Unconstitutional and dumb.   There are already safeguards in place.  Red Flags go against at least half the Bill of Rights for starters.  Americans are guilty until proven innocent.  There is exponential ability for abuses, including political.  AND in enacting the laws, the government is just enraging nonviolent and potentially violent individuals that become its victims.  It won't stop Insane people, violent individuals, and criminals that want to do you harm, instead it will just make them that more determined.   It is all choreographed.  That will lead to more violence and the need to take more control.  

I wonder when criminals will start using red flag laws to make a more safe working environment.  

New Jersey will use it to make its citizens more vulnerable to the State and criminals... conditioning and brainwashing.  Are there ANY good judges in NJ to stand up against this tyranny?   I don't know if there will be a rash of excesses in NJ, however, the LEOs and courts most likely won't stand with the people against this form of oppression.  

As a side note...

I might be being a bit harsh, but unless political targeting is utilized, I would theorize the majority of red flag law cases will lead to the disarmament of liberals and progressives and their voting block (overly emotional, not accountable for their actions, illogical, and usually damaged).  Hey, it might not be a bad thing!

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

1 hour ago, SJG said:

I think the "jury" will be out on red flag laws for several years until studies will be done to determine how effective they really are. IMO if these laws are properly applied and post seizure due process hearings held they can be effective.

Well, if I'm part of that "jury" (lol), I already disagree with the fundamental premise of these laws.

For me, the glaring problem is that they focus on the "tool" while seeming to give little attention to the underlying criminal intent and/or mental illness that would theoretically (and logically) be the "root cause" of the violence they claim to fear.

My common sense (and understanding of human nature) tells me that seizing someone's legally purchased, legally owned property because you think they pose a threat, and then sending that (justifiably?) ticked-off person home where they can then access any NUMBER of destructive, murderous plans (using other tools like box trucks, explosives, gasoline and matches, etc.) is just DUMB. I don't need several years worth of studies to tell me there's a serious breakdown in logic with this approach. 

 

[Sniper 6,372]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

there's a serious breakdown in logic

That should be the Democrat's Tag Line!

[Underdog 1,593]

Exactly!  They are focusing on the "tool" because they really don't care about fixing the problem.  If the problem goes away they cannot continue with the disarmament agenda.  And they certainly don't want to bring to light that their leftist trajectory over the last half century has ANYTHING to do with the suspect increase in violence and deaths.   

[Scorpio64 5,154]

58 minutes ago, SJG said:

IMO if these laws are properly applied and post seizure due process hearings held they can be effective.

Also, there needs to be very serious  consequences for false accusations when red flag is implemented.  Like double penalty for speeding in 65mph zones or construction areas.  We must have a check and ballance against the anti 2A people who are chomping at the bit to abuse this law.

[Kevin125 4,772]

10 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Well, if I'm part of that "jury" (lol), I already disagree with the fundamental premise of these laws.

For me, the glaring problem is that they focus on the "tool" while seeming to give little attention to the underlying criminal intent and/or mental illness that would theoretically (and logically) be the "root cause" of the violence they claim to fear.

My common sense (and understanding of human nature) tells me that seizing someone's legally purchased, legally owned property because you think they pose a threat, and then sending that (justifiably?) ticked-off person home where they can then access any NUMBER of destructive, murderous plans (using other tools like box trucks, explosives, gasoline and matches, etc.) is just DUMB. I don't need several years worth of studies to tell me there's a serious breakdown in logic with this approach. 

 

Exactly Right.  And that should tell you a couple of things.  The people that came up with red flag laws are either idiots for thinking this addresses the stated problem. Or.... they are liars since they already know this isn’t intended to address any problem Other than...the citizens have guns and a lot of them don’t like how we treat them.

 

 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

21 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

For me, the glaring problem is that they focus on the "tool" while seeming to give little attention to the underlying criminal intent and/or mental illness that would theoretically (and logically) be the "root cause" of the violence they claim to fear.

 

[Scorpio64 5,154]

21 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

For me, the glaring problem is that they focus on the "tool" while seeming to give little attention to the underlying criminal intent and/or mental illness that would theoretically (and logically) be the "root cause" of the violence they claim to fear.

Peel, it is absolutely the guns fault.  Just look at places like Detroit, Oakland, Camden, all utopias run by progressive democrats.  The failures in these cities have noting to do with political corruption, gangs, drugs, illegal immigration, music and other media that promotes violence against women, political opponents, and cops because music and other media is just "art" protected under the 1A.

No, Peel.  It's the guns that have ruined these shining examples of progressive social and economic policy.  Guns magically transform perfectly good people, gentle people of the highest moral caliber into criminals, home invaders, rapists and murderers.