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59 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Can public businesses choose to ban unvaccinated people? We should add that to the list of things unvaccinated people can't do.

MMR has nothing to do with autism. The flu shot does not give people the flu. People who rather risk their kids dying from easily preventable diseases than get a little prick from a needle shouldn't be allowed to have kids and it's akin to child abuse.

Unless you have an allergy, there is literally no sane reason to not vaccinate your kid.

Do you think people should have to disclose if they have a communicable disease with others they come in contact with?

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2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

There is a very small number of people that have adverse health effects for everything medically treatable. 

Would you not try and have a surgery performed if you knew there was a .0001% chance you would die from it?

Exactly . All surgeries have side effects, almost all can kill you, but people still choose to have surgeries.

Yet for some reason there is a controversy about the vaccination.

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I'll say that while I didnt watch the YouTube video, it's just about the last place I would start any research on a medical topic.. A good place to start would be medical journals.

Of course you can go to medical journals and literature, but in this youtube video a world renown scientist explains in simple language why you need vaccination and why some people still think it's the worst thing that can happen to a child.

 

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Any health decision should come from a logical and informed place.. just like most any other decisions in life that are important. 

Agree 100%.

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13 hours ago, 10X said:

I really hate to see the government get involved in mandating how people choose to manage their health, and I really hate to see the government intrude on religious freedom.   But I'll make exceptions when the topic is vaccination.

 

13 hours ago, 10X said:

That's damned impressive, and it's disheartening to see the disease coming back due to the tireless efforts of the measles preservationists.  There are plenty of species that deserve to be protected from extinction.  Measles isn't one of them.

For the first part, this is the BIG issue. How many more freedoms are we willing to give up for a minority issue? How many more freedoms are you willing to let the government take away from you? This is the issue, not the actual vaccinations..

So, let's look at measles, since you brought it up. Nationwide there have been 1200 cases this year, in a country of 320 MILLION. Someone do the math on percentages, my calculator doesn't have enough spaces to the right of the decimal point. How about NJ statewide this year? 19 cases in a state with 8 MILLION people. Do the math again.

Is that a epidemic that needs the government to intervene and pass new laws, and ban kids from public schools?

The death rate from measles is 0.1%, so with 1200 cases nationwide, one or two will die. Compare that to lightning, where 45 people die a year. Maybe we should ban lightning strikes..... How about cars, where 40,000 die each year and hundreds of thousands are severely injured? We should definitely ban cars, it's "For the Children".

Let's go one step further with the banning of unvaccinated from public schools. What does that accomplish?

Do these kids not go to the park to play, go to birthday parties, play on sports teams on the weekends, play in the neighborhood with other kids, go to stores, malls, beaches, fly on airplanes, other public places? Is the government going to ban them from all those places too? If not, how does banning from public school stop the spread of the disease?

Think really hard about that when agreeing that the government should selectively ban for a MINORITY situation. Does the government always know best??

Let's talk about other minority fringe issues forced down our throats. Murphy signed a law mandating LGBT history be taught in schools, even though they are only 4% of the population. If someone wants to learn about LGBT history, can't they just go to Google and look it up? It has to be FORCED on ALL of the public school population, even though many traditional families have issues with it?

Let's go one step further, with a issue very close to us. The Dems want to ban 15 MILLION AR15s, because a few have been used in mass school shootings. Someone do the math again on that, my calculator has a tough time computing the percentage of AR15s that is? Is everyone OK with a MINORITY issue being force on the MAJORITY? More of your freedoms being taken away to appease the masses, because "It's For The Children".

How about those 30 round mags in the state, how many remember them?? Me neither... 15 rounders, nope gone, now 10 rounders... soon to be 5 rounders (the legislation is already written). Has those restrictions actually changed anything and made the "children" safer??

So, in ending,  it's NOT about the actual vaccinations (the data I posted above proves that). Be careful when jumping in with the "herd", and agreeing with the government that MORE of our FREEDOM of CHOICE be taken away to appease the minority...

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2 hours ago, Greenday said:

MMR has nothing to do with autism. The flu shot does not give people the flu. People who rather risk their kids dying from easily preventable diseases than get a little prick from a needle shouldn't be allowed to have kids and it's akin to child abuse.

This sounds eerily similar to those in favor of the eugenics movement and sterility courts of the 1920s...

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28 minutes ago, NJBeretta said:

This sounds eerily similar to those in favor of the eugenics movement and sterility courts of the 1920s...

Saying people who dont care about their kid's health shouldn't have kids is not even remotely similar to eugenics. Do you even know what eugenics was?

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3 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Saying people who dont care about their kid's health shouldn't have kids is not even remotely similar to eugenics. Do you even know what eugenics was?

Of course I do - but perhaps you weren't aware that there were courts in this country up through the 1930s which dictated whether or not a woman was "fit to have a child" based upon arbitrary and unproven criteria put forth upon the court by a third party... and in the worst cases, resulted in forced sterilization:

"Husband is an alcoholic... unfit to have children >> sterilization"

"Mother suffers from dementia... unfit to have children >> sterilization"

"Brother is a known and convicted criminal... unfit to have children >> sterilization"

The notion of eugenics pretty much evaporated in the 1940s (thank God) - we all know why...

EVERY parent cares about their child's health - but suggesting that one "shouldn't have kids" because their beliefs may go against something else is absurd.

I'm all in favor of vaccination (although admittedly, I do not get flu shots anymore) - my kids got the basics required for preschool.  However, notwithstanding the BS put forth by Jenny McCarthy and RFK Jr., there are a lot of people out there who are skeptical of the ramifications (possibly attributable to the added chemicals/preservatives in the injection) and thus err on the side of caution.

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Jenny McCarthy  is Bat Sh!t crazy those genes were bad to begin with, don't blame a vaccine

RFK jr. had an aunt or great aunt they lobotomized because she was over sexed (Like her Brother John). Can't blame that on any vaccine.

Again fishing in a bad gene pool.

When we were kids we went on long lines and got shots. I never heard of any one having issues as a result.

But I think today they are giving 27? vaccine shots when we had maybe 6-7, there in, may lie the problem

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2 hours ago, Greenday said:

Saying people who dont care about their kid's health shouldn't have kids is not even remotely similar to eugenics. Do you even know what eugenics was?

Should people who cant take care of themselves... on public assistance have kids?

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55 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

When we were kids we went on long lines and got shots.

Actually, many people born before the mid 60's contracted measles, mumps and a bunch of others, and didn't have the shots, and are still here reading this forum.

58 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

But I think today they are giving 27? vaccine shots when we had maybe 6-7, there in, may lie the problem

Could be, not to mention the over loading of antibiotics for the simplest fever or sniffles.

The bottom line, where is the dividing line of what the government says we can put in our bodies? When does personal responsibility and Freedom of Choice enter the equation?

2 hours ago, Greenday said:

Saying people who dont care about their kid's health shouldn't have kids is not even remotely similar to eugenics.

It's a GREAT thing you don't have kids.

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5 hours ago, Greenday said:

Can public businesses choose to ban unvaccinated people? We should add that to the list of things unvaccinated people can't do.

Should these people get a BIG tattoo on their forehead stating "UNVACCINATED" so everyone in the general public knows?

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Why should the unvaccinated get all the benefits of being vaccinated? Those numbers are soo small because a majority of people suck up any risks for the benefits. 

 

Anti-vaxxers are no better then the others leaching off the public. 

If everyone chose not to vaccinate.... all these idoits would be running to get their kids vaccinated when all these diseases make massive comebacks due to the massive increase in population densities 

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28 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

If everyone chose not to vaccinate.... all these idoits would be running to get their kids vaccinated when all these diseases make massive comebacks due to the massive increase in THIRD WORLD PEASANT ILLEGAL ALIENS

FIFY

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The most infuriating part is that if everyone just got vaccinated, a lot of these viruses actually dissapear over generations, with no way to spread... 

Which means in the future, NO ONE would need to be vaccinated. 

 

 

If these people want to claim religious exemption, then they should sign a waiver, no medical treatments at all, ever... for anything.

Funny how this group in NJ with the measels...  they were/are all committing Medicaid fraud.... for what? They dont believe in modern medicine?

 

 

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23 hours ago, voyager9 said:

What about parents who chose to home school or send their children to private school?  Do they get refunds too?

What about parents who’s child has been expelled?  Do they get money back for that?

School vouchers. Probably 90% of pols hate the idea.

Forced injections...  hmmm.

Forced abortions for stupid people or adults with drug problems? Or no job?  Kids that grow up to be criminals tend to sprout from those situations.  It would be for the good of the herd dontcha know...

1984....

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

Funny how this group in NJ with the measels...  they were/are all committing Medicaid fraud.... for what? They dont believe in modern medicine?

What does Medicaid fraud have to do with modern medicine? I'll answer for you, NOTHING.

They were just taking advantage of the system, so they wouldn't to pay for medical care.

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

The most infuriating part is that if everyone just got vaccinated, a lot of these viruses actually dissapear over generations, with no way to spread... 

Which means in the future, NO ONE would need to be vaccinated. 

So, you have a way to get everyone in third world countries vaccinated? Because this is how most of these outbreaks happen, they get "imported" from other countries into our country.

3 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Why should the unvaccinated get all the benefits of being vaccinated?

What benefits would that be? They actually have it worse, since they stand a better chance of catching the disease.

3 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

If everyone chose not to vaccinate...

So, you're OK with the government passing laws that relate to 0.01% of the population, but put undue financial hardship on many people?

Have you turned in your AR15s yet? You know, it's "For the Children".

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36 minutes ago, Sniper said:

So, you have a way to get everyone in third world countries vaccinated? 

The WHO was able to do it for smallpox somehow. That was back before muzzies turned a lot of shithole countries into violent shithole countries. No one is going door to door in Somalia or Afghanistan.

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14 hours ago, Sniper said:

What does Medicaid fraud have to do with modern medicine? I'll answer for you, NOTHING.

why do they need health insurance if they dont believe in modern medicine?

They were just taking advantage of the system, so they wouldn't to pay for medical care.

why do they want medical care but not vaccines?  What's the religious logic in that?

So, you have a way to get everyone in third world countries vaccinated? Because this is how most of these outbreaks happen, they get "imported" from other countries into our country.

Who and the red cross already do this, vaccines are so cheap it's worth the cost and effort.

What benefits would that be? They actually have it worse, since they stand a better chance of catching the disease.

just like people leaching off taxpayers... the unvaccinated get all the benefits of viral suppression and herd immunity while everyone else puts the work in to actually suppress viruses.. 

So, you're OK with the government passing laws that relate to 0.01% of the population, but put undue financial hardship on many people?

what financial hardship? Even without insurance, vaccinations are cheap.. compare that to treatment for infections and get back to me which costs more. The only reason that .01% exists is because of vaccinations... why not make it 0%?

Have you turned in your AR15s yet? You know, it's "For the Children".

do AR15's spread communicable deadly diseases with out bias? 

We could eradicate most of the poverty in this country if we stop enabling people to stay home on government assistance... 

Just like we could erradicate viruses we have vaccines for if people werent enabled to skip them. In which cases there would be no need to even vaccinate people.

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5 minutes ago, PK90 said:

What happened to "My Body, My Choice"?

I understand  the argument of personal freedoms and choice. 

But what happened to my rights begin where yours end? 

Do we really want petri dishes of viral content spreading disease in our public places?

Even people who are vaccinated may not be fully protected. Since most are effective enough but not 100% we really depend on as many people being vaccinated. 

 

Most older people need to get boosters, or better more effective updated vaccines to continue being protected.

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16 hours ago, Sniper said:

What does Medicaid fraud have to do with modern medicine? I'll answer for you, NOTHING.

They were just taking advantage of the system, so they wouldn't to pay for medical care.

So, you have a way to get everyone in third world countries vaccinated? Because this is how most of these outbreaks happen, they get "imported" from other countries into our country.

What benefits would that be? They actually have it worse, since they stand a better chance of catching the disease.

So, you're OK with the government passing laws that relate to 0.01% of the population, but put undue financial hardship on many people?

Have you turned in your AR15s yet? You know, it's "For the Children".

Okay, by the numbers,

1.  Medicaid would be paying for "my kid is sick".  A lot of Medicaid people go to the ER.  That's $500-600 dollars a whack.  Your tax dollars.

2.  Reduce taking advantage of medical care?  Get vaccinated.

3.  Imported diseases?  That's an immigration issue. At one point, if you had a communicable disease you were not allowed entry into the US.

4.  How do they they stand a better chance of catching the disease?  That's what the vaccine prevents. Smallpox has been eradicated in the US.  Benefits? You claim you have employed people.  You'd be okay with people banging in sick?

I guess you're all for bringing back smallpox and diphtheria as common diseases 

5.  .01%? I'm okay if that eradicates a disease.  You'd like to see more disease? Financial burden?  What of the financial burden of getting sick.

6.  Turn in your AR15?  If you're so bothered by government control why are you living in NJ? Move to Somalia where there's no government control.

 

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

  Medicaid would be paying for "my kid is sick".  A lot of Medicaid people go to the ER.  That's $500-600 dollars a whack.  Your tax dollars.

2.  Reduce taking advantage of medical care?  Get vaccinated.

So, the only time a kid goes for medical care is when they have a illness that's prevented by vaccinations?

Really?

Do you have kids, by any chance?

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

  Imported diseases?  That's an immigration issue. At one point, if you had a communicable disease you were not allowed entry into the US.

Looks like that ain't working:

..." The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018.  These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018. This is the greatest number of imported cases since measles was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000."

Looks like the federal government is doing a shitty job protecting us. Maybe we need to ban them, instead.

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

How do they they stand a better chance of catching the disease?

Wouldn't unvaccinated people stand a better chance catching an illness versus a vaccinated one? I would think that's basic logic that most people would know, right?

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

That's what the vaccine prevents. Smallpox has been eradicated in the US.  Benefits? You claim you have employed people.  You'd be okay with people banging in sick?

I guess you're all for bringing back smallpox and diphtheria as common diseases 

Talk about a straw man, not worthy of a real response...

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

.01%? I'm okay if that eradicates a disease.  You'd like to see more disease?

If you're so worried about the .01%, why aren't you concerned about the 600,000+ people who DIE every year from cardiovascular disease, and the millions more who suffer? Shouldn't you start campaigning on banning double cheeseburgers? After all, wouldn't that help "the children"?

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

Financial burden? 

Oh geez... another one to spell out. What's the financial burden to the parents by banning the kid from public school? What's the cost for alternative schooling. Once again, this should be completely obvious.

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

Turn in your AR15?  If you're so bothered by government control why are you living in NJ?

And there you have it folks... Perfectly happy with INCREMENTALISM, and allowing our Freedom of Choice to be taken away, piece by piece.... this is why this country is so screwed...

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1 hour ago, Sniper said:

So, the only time a kid goes for medical care is when they have a illness that's prevented by vaccinations?

Really?

Do you have kids, by any chance?

Looks like that ain't working:

..." The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018.  These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018. This is the greatest number of imported cases since measles was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000."

Looks like the federal government is doing a shitty job protecting us. Maybe we need to ban them, instead.

Wouldn't unvaccinated people stand a better chance catching an illness versus a vaccinated one? I would think that's basic logic that most people would know, right?

Talk about a straw man, not worthy of a real response...

If you're so worried about the .01%, why aren't you concerned about the 600,000+ people who DIE every year from cardiovascular disease, and the millions more who suffer? Shouldn't you start campaigning on banning double cheeseburgers? After all, wouldn't that help "the children"?

Oh geez... another one to spell out. What's the financial burden to the parents by banning the kid from public school? What's the cost for alternative schooling. Once again, this should be completely obvious.

And there you have it folks... Perfectly happy with INCREMENTALISM, and allowing our Freedom of Choice to be taken away, piece by piece.... this is why this country is so screwed...

Regardless of the cost saving to medical coverage that vaccines provide... you still haven't answered why any of these people even need it. They openly admit they dont believe in modern medicine... or that even the lowest risks arent worth it...

If they get injured or sick, they should accept it as God's will... and since everything medical related has risks, almost everything Carries a greater risk than vaccines... so another point to consider. 

 

The US had outbreaks... because people still arent vaccinated here...  

 

Your worried about the cost of schooling... 

Didnt all the people who showed up to oppose this in NJ send ALL of their kids to private schools already? 

 

Your arguments dont make any sense.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

If they get injured or sick, they should accept it as God's will... and since everything medical related has risks, almost everything Carries a greater risk than vaccines... so another point to consider.

Pretty sure "God's will" isn't covered by health insurance so anyone who refuses vaccinations should pay full price.

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I'm pretty sure the religious exemption is being driven by a subset of Orthodox Jews that happen to be anti-vax. Most OJ do the vaccines, the ped we had in Freehold had a Lakewood office we would go to sometimes and plenty of OJ kids were there getting shots.  You also sometimes will hear of pertussis outbreaks, usually starting around this time of year

I had chickenpox, mumps and my cousins had measles way back when so all of mine got/get the vaccines. Nothing wrong with spreading them out over a little time, in case of reaction. 

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Does this mean I need to get the flu shot? 

"In total, the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died."

 

Decreasing the transmittance of the virus overall could have serious benefits, for both medical facilities and people.

 

If you work in a hospital it is a mandatory vaccine. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Decreasing the transmittance of the virus overall could have serious benefits, for both medical facilities and people.

If you work in a hospital it is a mandatory vaccine. 

Last year's flu vaccine was only like 40% effective. So, what are you going to do to the other 60% that caught and spread the disease AFTER being vaccinated? Shoot them?

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48 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Last year's flu vaccine was only like 40% effective. So, what are you going to do to the other 60% that caught and spread the disease AFTER being vaccinated? Shoot them?

It was about 60% effective for all ages..  per the CDC. 

 

But what a truly idiotic comment. 

 

Only 40 percent  or less of adults actually get the vaccine most kids i know don't even get it, but i cant find data my guess is the number is lower. Which means if everyone got the vaccine you could take the numbers before and cut them by way more than half. Since transmittance is exponential to population density.

 

Why don't you just go around shooting infants and old people, or cancer patients? When you get the flu and pass it along to them, direct or indirectly by infecting others... pretty much the same thing right?

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