Ray Ray 3,566 Posted December 16, 2019 I was wondering if say I decide to install an adjustable brace on an AR15 would it be legal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 IMO, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted December 16, 2019 IMO - NO! A brace is only considered a brace when used on a Pistol or Other firearm. A Rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder, and as such requires a stock. If you put an adj brace on a rifle - it then becomes the stock and as such has to be pinned to non-adjustable in NJ 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 16, 2019 Yea there's much grey area here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted December 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said: IMO - NO! A brace is only considered a brace when used on a Pistol or Other firearm. A Rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder, and as such requires a stock. If you put an adj brace on a rifle - it then becomes the stock and as such has to be pinned to non-adjustable in NJ But by that way of thinking one could put a stock on an AR pistol and since pistols are designed to be fired by hand only then the stock should become a brace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 16, 2019 If you wanted to build one from a receiver then go for it. It cant be anywhere near rifle or pistol classification. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,708 Posted December 16, 2019 Let us know how it works out. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJG 253 Posted December 16, 2019 Agree with JT's analysis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, JT Custom Guns said: IMO - NO! A brace is only considered a brace when used on a Pistol or Other firearm. A Rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder, and as such requires a stock. If you put an adj brace on a rifle - it then becomes the stock and as such has to be pinned to non-adjustable in NJ Can I take off the rifle stock and still be legal? Yes. Can I put a pistol grip on instead of a stock, ie shotgun, and still be legal. Yes. Difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted December 16, 2019 7 hours ago, fishnut said: But by that way of thinking one could put a stock on an AR pistol and since pistols are designed to be fired by hand only then the stock should become a brace. No - you cannot put a stock on a Pistol as that would make it an SBR 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted December 16, 2019 6 hours ago, PK90 said: Can I take off the rifle stock and still be legal? Yes. Can I put a pistol grip on instead of a stock, ie shotgun, and still be legal. Yes. Difference? Can you take off the rifles stock and still be legal? Not if it doesn't make min. length Can you put a Pistol Grip on instead of a stock, ie Shotgun and still be legal? Technically, NO. In cases of a shotgun if it was designed by the mfg to be shouldered, no - but if it was sold with a PG as in a Mossberg Cruiser which is considered an "Firearm" then it would be good to go. Unless NJ Gun law changes, you can have your adjustable brace on an "other" and be happy, but IMO NJ is not going to let you take a brace and put it on an AR and let it be adjustable. Again, IMO IF a member really wants to test the waters - e-mail the AG's office and ask them................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 An AR rifle without a stock will be over 26", and 100% legal. A shotgun can have an aftermarket pistol grip, as it too will be over 26". The question is not about an "other" or "pistol-grip firearm". The issue is about adding a non-regulated part to a rifle, ie long gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, PK90 said: An AR rifle without a stock will be over 26", and 100% legal. A shotgun can have an aftermarket pistol grip, as it too will be over 26". The question is not about an "other" or "pistol-grip firearm". The issue is about adding a non-regulated part to a rifle, ie long gun. I believe the question was - "I was wondering if say I decide to install an adjustable brace on an AR15 would it be legal"? IMO - NO, it cannot be adjustable on a rifle....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 I still say "yes", as a brace is not a stock. I believe that the original design and purpose of a brace was to allow a one armed person to be able to shoot a heavy firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted December 16, 2019 Paul, I agree with the intent of the design of a brace, but in the real world we all know it's used to put a stock on a weapon that wasn't supposed to have a stock in the first place (ie: pistol). Can he put it on a rifle - Yes! Can in be adjustable in NJ - NO! If the person using the brace needs it to support the weight, then it can be adjusted to that users required length and then pinned, just like a stock. BUT, if someone wants to ask the AG and they get a different answer - I'll retract my opinion..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 Maybe DSI has the gonads to ask, but the typical NJ gun owner doesn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, PK90 said: I still say "yes", as a brace is not a stock. I believe that the original design and purpose of a brace was to allow a one armed person to be able to shoot a heavy firearm. So a gun designed to be shot with one hand? And not shouldered.. That's NJ's definition of a pistol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted December 16, 2019 Other than “why not” why would you want to put a brace on a rifle? Just so you could adjust it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 859 Posted December 16, 2019 3 hours ago, carl_g said: Other than “why not” why would you want to put a brace on a rifle? Just so you could adjust it? Another way to skirt the law? The "braces" function fine as a stock. How about i someone adds a pistol brace AND a vertical foregrip to a rifle-length AR?? So it would have a brace instead of a stock, vertical foregrip, and 16" barrel ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 16, 2019 Yeah. Not everyone has the same length arms. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 17, 2019 5 hours ago, 124gr9mm said: Another way to skirt the law? The "braces" function fine as a stock. How about i someone adds a pistol brace AND a vertical foregrip to a rifle-length AR?? So it would have a brace instead of a stock, vertical foregrip, and 16" barrel ... I would just avoid doing to an already existing rifle. But other wise an "other firearm" has no barrel length restrictions. Have at it. IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted January 1, 2020 The objective was to have one AR for home defense, and since I am 6'5 and my non-binary "they" partner is 5' an adjustable brace would make the most sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted January 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Ray Ray said: The objective was to have one AR for home defense, and since I am 6'5 and my non-binary "they" partner is 5' an adjustable brace would make the most sense. I remember reading somewhere "if it starts as a rifle it stays a rifle", or something to that effect. Does that only apply to pistol ARs? The safest solution is purchase a stripped receiver, put a brace on it, put a vertical fore grip (not an angled one) on the upper, put them together, and done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted January 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said: I remember reading somewhere "if it starts as a rifle it stays a rifle", or something to that effect. Does that only apply to pistol ARs? The safest solution is purchase a stripped receiver, put a brace on it, put a vertical fore grip (not an angled one) on the upper, put them together, and done. You cannot put a vert. grip on a pistol.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said: You cannot put a vert. grip on a pistol.......... As long as the OAL is over 26”... you can. Partly the reason why the ATF had that letter go out a little bit back where OAL on folding braced pistols (and other firearms) do not count towards the OAL when open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted January 1, 2020 Talking about 'pistol" - not rifle........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted January 1, 2020 40 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said: You cannot put a vert. grip on a pistol.......... That was specific to Ray's situation. He already has the upper from the rifle with a 16" barrel. If he is using a different upper with a shorter barrel, then yes needs to be 26" OAL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites