non-nfa ??

[goose54 6]

Is it OK to purchase a sig m400 Tread 11.5 pistol overall length 27" & add an arisaka defense vertical grip ??????  Thanks for any info. 

[124gr9mm 859]

If you're in NJ you can't purchase it to begin with, so you wouldn't get the chance to put the vertical grip on it

If you purchased it somewhere else (somehow) and put a VFG on it I think you're in the land of "don't ask, don't tell" because you'd have a compliant gun in your hands.

Lot's of "what if's" (where you live, where you're buying, etc, etc) would impact your results...

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

There is no way it is 27 oal. With a standard 11.5. Barrel and carbine buffer tube its u der 26" anyway. 

 

There is plenty of good available options without this kinda headache...

[tony357 386]

The NON-NFA approved firearms are marked right on them "other firearm"  

[JackDaWack 2,895]

18 minutes ago, tony357 said:

The NON-NFA approved firearms are marked right on them "other firearm"  

Im not sure that matters, what is important is how its transferred on form 4473. 

It sounds stupid but assuming it meets OAL,  an 07 FFL would be required to attach a vertical grip, reclassifying the pistol as a "other firearm" and place their FFL Info on the receiver.

Thats the only way to get a non-nfa firearm from a pistol or rifle that passes through an FFL.

[tony357 386]

4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Im not sure that matters, what is important is how its transferred on form 4473. 

It sounds stupid but assuming it meets OAL,  an 07 FFL would be required to attach a vertical grip, reclassifying the pistol as a "other firearm" and place their FFL Info on the receiver.

Thats the only way to get a non-nfa firearm from a pistol or rifle that passes through an FFL.

maybe but I would not want to be that Guinee pig. 

[raz-0 1,259]

I will put it this way. 

The cheapest lawyering I have needed cost me $800 and it wasn't criminal.

Nothing involving fucking up an NFA other firearm situation will cost you that little. 

nfa other firearms are available for less than $800. 

So don't be fucking stupid. There's nothing I can fathom about what you propose that could bring anything to the table remotely worth the risk. 

[Blacksmythe 71]

Geez months later and this shot is still going. 

[goose54 6]

My reasoning was--------- I have sig p226 & DMR &  MPX 9mm and  a 522 22lr. They are well-built--Accurate-- for the $ --and Im a fan. I saw the sig M400 tread & thought WOW a pistol brace----- an overall length of 27"-----and all I thought you would need to be legal is a VFG !!!!! Maybe have to pin and weld the muzzle device?? and walla a non-nfa firearm that meets all of the requirements. Its a Sig and its 799$  Looking at whats currently avail in NJ it seemed like a good possibility. "I do appreciate everyone who comments"   even if I disagree  :)  THX

[JackDaWack 2,895]

4 hours ago, goose54 said:

My reasoning was--------- I have sig p226 & DMR &  MPX 9mm and  a 522 22lr. They are well-built--Accurate-- for the $ --and Im a fan. I saw the sig M400 tread & thought WOW a pistol brace----- an overall length of 27"-----and all I thought you would need to be legal is a VFG !!!!! Maybe have to pin and weld the muzzle device?? and walla a non-nfa firearm that meets all of the requirements. Its a Sig and its 799$  Looking at whats currently avail in NJ it seemed like a good possibility. "I do appreciate everyone who comments"   even if I disagree  THX

You can do it, but like I said you need to find an 07 ffl that will do it for you and put their name on it. 

If you were capable of buying it as a pistol, which you cant in NJ, you could do it yourself. 

[ChrisJM981 924]

On 1/10/2020 at 3:39 PM, goose54 said:

My reasoning was--------- I have sig p226 & DMR &  MPX 9mm and  a 522 22lr. They are well-built--Accurate-- for the $ --and Im a fan. I saw the sig M400 tread & thought WOW a pistol brace----- an overall length of 27"-----and all I thought you would need to be legal is a VFG !!!!! Maybe have to pin and weld the muzzle device?? and walla a non-nfa firearm that meets all of the requirements. Its a Sig and its 799$  Looking at whats currently avail in NJ it seemed like a good possibility. "I do appreciate everyone who comments"   even if I disagree  THX

Non-NFA firearms have to be transferred by an FFL. An FFL can add a VFG, but the length might be a bit shy. It says 27", but that's with the brace. Do a search for measuring with the brace removed from the end of the buffer tube. My firearm needed a Vltor A5 buffer (longer than standard AR buffer tube) to get over 26" with an 11.5" barrel. YMMV. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

On 1/13/2020 at 10:03 AM, ChrisJM981 said:

Non-NFA firearms have to be transferred by an FFL. An FFL can add a VFG, but the length might be a bit shy. It says 27", but that's with the brace. Do a search for measuring with the brace removed from the end of the buffer tube. My firearm needed a Vltor A5 buffer (longer than standard AR buffer tube) to get over 26" with an 11.5" barrel. YMMV. 

An FFL cannot just add a VFG, reclassifying the pistol as an "other firearm". That falls under manufacturing and an 07 FFL would need to follow the law regarding that. 

 

[ChrisJM981 924]

28 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

An FFL cannot just add a VFG, reclassifying the pistol as an "other firearm". That falls under manufacturing and an 07 FFL would need to follow the law regarding that. 

 

Good point. What about from a stripped receiver?

[SJG 253]

It is true, it does not matter what is on the lower, it is how it is transferred. Some might argue it is good to put that on the other if you are building an other, but in truth, I think it is a bad idea because it could be built into something that is not an other like a pistol (illegal in NJ) or a rifle(legal).

[JackDaWack 2,895]

3 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

Good point. What about from a stripped receiver?

I believe it would be the same exact thing, it falls under manufacturing.

 

Just consider this, the ATF was playing around with wether or not cerakoting a firearm would be considered manufacturing.... crazy... but they have guidelines as to what is considered gunsmithing vs manufacturing... you can bet that anytime a firearm changes classification it will be considered manufacturing.. where as the replacement modificarion or exchange of existing parts is gunsmithing.  That's why there is an 03 and 07 FFL difference.

 

[Rick_F 5]

Goose-

I found the complete upper f/s if this helps you achieve what you're looking to accomplish.

https://www.themodernsportsmanonline.com/products/accessories-sig-sauer-sig-sauer-m400-pistol-upper-ar15-ar-15-5-56-tread-sig-sauer-m400-pistol-upper-ar15-ar-15-5-56-tread-2954