Declaratory Judgment Sought in NJ’s Carry Permit Scheme, Violates Full Faith & Credit

[wreckless 34]

Declaratory Judgment Sought in NJ’s Carry Permit Scheme, Violates Full Faith & Credit

EATONTOWN, NJ – -(AmmoLand.com)- The U.S. Constitution’s Full Faith and Credit Clause (Article IV, Section 1) requires that states respect the “public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.” Yet, New Jersey refuses to recognize any other state's licenses to carry a handgun.

Charles McDowell of Georgia and Thomas Muller of Delaware possess judicial court Orders granting them licenses to carry weapons. Their Orders were issued by judges in judicial proceedings by state courts, just as New Jersey's licenses to carry are also issued by judges.

Based on the above, the law firms of Evan F. Nappen Attorney at Law, P.C. and Giaramita Law Offices, P.C. have brought a Civil Rights Action in the United State District Court, New Jersey, on behalf of McDowell and Muller against NJ Attorney General Gurbir Grewal and every NJ County Prosecutor.

Plaintiffs seek a declaratory judgment that McDowell’s and Muller’s judicial Orders granting license to carry weapons be honored in New Jersey pursuant to Full Faith and Credit.

“This case is the first step in gaining reciprocity by making New Jersey's handgun permit system more reasonable and in step with the overwhelming majority of States in the US,” said Evan F. Nappen, Esq. “This case potentially breaks New Jersey's stranglehold on permits to carry a handgun by opening the door for good people to carry again in New Jersey.”

 

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/01/declaratory-judgment-sought-in-njs-carry-permit-scheme-violates-full-faith-credit

[raz-0 1,259]

interesting strategy. I wonder how NJ courts will say no. Then how the 3rd will say no. 

[wreckless 34]

The good thing now is that the Third is no longer a liberal "rubber stamp" as it has been transformed by Trump appointees.

[raz-0 1,259]

28 minutes ago, wreckless said:

The good thing now is that the Third is no longer a liberal "rubber stamp" as it has been transformed by Trump appointees.

Doubt it. It's not a slam dunk case. Yes.. every state respects other states' licenses to drive. However, they don't do the same for a license to practice law, medicine, be a barber, etc. 

It's a mixed bag. This is not a clear slam dunk. 

[wreckless 34]

1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

Doubt it. It's not a slam dunk case. Yes.. every state respects other states' licenses to drive. However, they don't do the same for a license to practice law, medicine, be a barber, etc. 

It's a mixed bag. This is not a clear slam dunk. 

The difference is that these were court order permits. They are an order from an out of state court no different than an out of state child custody order or restraining order that are obeyed by NJ courts and police on an every day basis and supported by the case law cited. These are not run of the mill state issued CCP's that equate with out of state driver's licenses. That is the a distinct difference.

[father-of-three 243]

49 minutes ago, wreckless said:

The difference is that these were court order permits. They are an order from an out of state court no different than an out of state child custody order or restraining order that are obeyed by NJ courts and police on an every day basis and supported by the case law cited. These are not run of the mill state issued CCP's that equate with out of state driver's licenses. That is the a distinct difference.

What are you referring to with regards to "run of the mill state issued ccp's that equate with out of state driver's licenses" ?

[wreckless 34]

1 hour ago, father-of-three said:

What are you referring to with regards to "run of the mill state issued ccp's that equate with out of state driver's licenses" ?

Most free state's issue CCP's through a regulatory state agency. They do not require the applicant to appear before a Superior Court judge with their petition as in NJ. By using out of state permitee's that have appeared before similar court hearings you take away one major argument from the state.

[raz-0 1,259]

2 hours ago, wreckless said:

The difference is that these were court order permits. They are an order from an out of state court no different than an out of state child custody order or restraining order that are obeyed by NJ courts and police on an every day basis and supported by the case law cited. These are not run of the mill state issued CCP's that equate with out of state driver's licenses. That is the a distinct difference.

OK, and? Full faith and credit has struck down court rulings from applying in other states as well as caused them to be upheld. And as others have pointed out, lots of CCPs are issued by regulatory agencies, so the all courts must respect all other courts rulings is neither clear cut, nor universally applicable to all carry permits. Yes, bringing this suit with someone with a permit issued by a judge is a more robust tactic than not, but it's far from comprehensive and iron clad. 

[wreckless 34]

i don't believe that anyone said it was iron clad or anything near a sure thing. Nothing is in court. It is always an uphill battle but I think this is a novel approach that may get more support from the bench than others.

[raz-0 1,259]

Which is why I said it was an interesting strategy and I’m curious as to how they will be told no. 

[voyager9 3,434]

26 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Which is why I said it was an interesting strategy and I’m curious as to how they will be told no. 

Easy. They will side with the plaintiff. Everyone will cheer a 2A victory until they read decision which states that Permits from other states will be accepted only after they are signed off by a NJ superior Court judge. 

[raz-0 1,259]

14 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Easy. They will side with the plaintiff. Everyone will cheer a 2A victory until they read decision which states that Permits from other states will be accepted only after they are signed off by a NJ superior Court judge. 

Man you are optimistic. At the state level, the plaintiffs aren't going to win, not even a little. 

[wreckless 34]

47 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Man you are optimistic. At the state level, the plaintiffs aren't going to win, not even a little. 

No hope in state court but mild hope in Federal Appeals land.

[GlennS87 65]

3rd circuit is has been transformed but this does seem like a bit of a reach. I hope it works of course

[raz-0 1,259]

4 hours ago, wreckless said:

No hope in state court but mild hope in Federal Appeals land.

Having thought about it for a bit, I could see the following argument being made:

We do respect the permit. They issued them a permit to carry concealed within the state of XXXXX, and NJ has never and will never interfere in that. We believe that permit is completely valid for that purpose even when the person in possession of it is in NJ. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

Having thought about it for a bit, I could see the following argument being made:

We do respect the permit. They issued them a permit to carry concealed within the state of XXXXX, and NJ has never and will never interfere in that. We believe that permit is completely valid for that purpose even when the person in possession of it is in NJ. 

I would love to see a state do this with driving licenses. Too bad no one gots the balls. 

[brucin 923]

How do i sign on as a plaintiff? mine and my wife's permits were issued by a superior court judge from Fulton Co. NY

[wreckless 34]

8 hours ago, brucin said:

How do i sign on as a plaintiff? mine and my wife's permits were issued by a superior court judge from Fulton Co. NY

That should be easy.  Call Nappen at his office on Monday. http://www.efnappen.com/

[SJG 253]

The case will go nowhere. The Delaware Court does not have jurisdiction beyond the borders of that State. The full faith and credit clause has no application to the right to carry in any other State. The reason driver's can drive in other States is because of interstate compacts, not full faith and credit. This approach has already been tried and rejected and has zero chance of success but may permit Napen to bill the shit out of his clients and grandstand.

[Downtownv 1,777]

Good Ole Evan Nappen Hero to the Media driven causes.

F U Nappen!

[Tunaman 548]

I hope you guys that bash Nappen  never need him someday. 

[Downtownv 1,777]

2 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

I hope you guys that bash Nappen  never need him someday. 

He would ne the LAST one i would ever call

Useless POS.

[fishnut 2,358]

14 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

I hope you guys that bash Nappen  never need him someday. 

None of the gun guys up here in New Hampshire that I've talked to have ever heard of him. Including the owner of my local gun shop, the owner if the only Sporting Clay's course in the Mt. Washington valley and even my neighbor a town selectman and former NH speaker of the house Gene Chandler has never heard of him. 

Wonder why? 

Because hes busy holding fear mongering seminars for us law shield down in NJ all the time 

[Handyman 5,682]

Meh, anyone that wants to attack NJ laws is fine by me. If they get rich doing it, good for them. There should be a constant swarm of attacks from every angle attacking laws, regulations, you name it. We need to knock the opposition back on its heels. We have been playing defense too long. 

[Downtownv 1,777]

8 hours ago, fishnut said:

None of the gun guys up here in New Hampshire that I've talked to have ever heard of him. Including the owner of my local gun shop, the owner if the only Sporting Clay's course in the Mt. Washington valley and even my neighbor a town selectman and former NH speaker of the house Gene Chandler has never heard of him. 

Wonder why? 

Because hes busy holding fear mongering seminars for us law shield down in NJ all the time 

Media Whore, While he does NOTHING for Gun owners in NJ

8 hours ago, Handyman said:

Meh, anyone that wants to attack NJ laws is fine by me. If they get rich doing it, good for them. There should be a constant swarm of attacks from every angle attacking laws, regulations, you name it. We need to knock the opposition back on its heels. We have been playing defense too long. 

I have and continue to write my Mayor Freeholders and District Reps EVERY time there is an update to i.e. W Milford Sussex County Virginia.

Until town by town county by county things change, we are on the losing end.

If any of you want to make a single change, I believe this is how it will occur.

 

Our Rally s are pathetic, NJ is NOT united like Virginia. We are too fragmented and then maybe 10% nah 1 % of the people bitching show up.