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robpm

purchasing a long gun on line and shipping to FFL in PA

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To all,

I have been a member of this forum for some time but I do not frequent it often.  I run a business and my life is very busy.  However just this past week I ran into something which really puzzled me and thought that this forum would probably be a good place to ask my question.  I have purchased several AR type rifles as well as a few Ruger semi auto in the past over the web from different retailers and had them shipped to an FFL in PA who is also a gun smith.  He is able to do any machining work needed to make sure that they are NJ compliant especially since he is also a retired NJ policeman.  We filled out all the appropriate paperwork every time as would be expected with every purchase.  I have never had a problem and if the seller had an issue I would call them and they would call the FFL and any issues would be resolved. 

This past week I found a really good deal on a SA M1A socum .308 Win Kryptek Highlander Rifle with a polimer standard stock.  I placed my order and filled out all the info for the FFL etc.  This retailer already had my NJFID on file since I had purchased ammo from them before. They came back and wanted proof of my address which I sent to them.  Then their compliance department emailed me and told me that they could not ship to an FFL from a different state.  I gave them the FFL's phone and asked them to call him.  They would not do that.  Then they came back to me and said that the M1A was not compliant in the State of NJ because it had a threaded barrel!  I gave them the links to the FAQ's on the State of NJ AG site showing what the law said regarding semi-auto with removable magazines and copied the actual law into my email and then gave them the link from the same site regarding the SA M1A and that it was a compliant rifle.  They told me that they would not sell me the gun because it was non-compliant in the state of NJ so they canceled my order.  I subsequently called them and spoke to a girl in the organization and she told me that it was their policy and that they could not ship me a non-compliant rifle to NJ and the only way was for my FFL to purchase the gun and make it compliant!  I have another good NJ resident friend who has purchased from this retailer before and has purchased several AR rifles and shipped them to the same FFL in PA.  He said they gave him a hassle but he was able to speak with the people in compliance and they called the FFL and then subsequently shipped to the FFL.  The girl would not let me speak to a manager telling me that they would tell me the same thing and that there was no way that I could speak to any one in compliance!  She said that I could email my complaint to the company using their customer service email which they do not show on their web site and that is all I could do.  Well I did that but as I expected there was no reply.  I guess the question I have for any here who maybe know the law better than me. Is it alright/legal for me to ship a gun purchased on the web to an FFL in PA, just across the boarder who follows the law of NJ to the T.  He is a retired NJ police officer.  I would appreciate your input on this.  I have never had an issue in the past.  And in addition is the SA M1A a non compliant rifle in NJ?  Everything that I know and have read says that it is.

Thanks for your input.

Sincerely,

Robpm

 

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This version of the M1A Socom is NJ legal. Tell the vendor to ship it to your NJ FFL, who can verify that for you.

BTW, I don't see this version on the SA website. Did they stop making it?

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I called SA because the retailer could not tell me a whole lot about it apart from telling me it had a different stock color and that the front site was different.  SA told me that everything everything was the exact same as the black polymer stock on their site apart from the camo polymer stock on their site.  I asked about the front site and SA told me that it is the exact same part so the retailer was wrong on that.  After that call I placed the order.

The SA woman whom I spoke with could not tell me anything about this specific model although she could look this specific model number up on her database.

Do you see any reason why they could not have it shipped to my normal FFL in PA?

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25 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

Some retailers see this a s Drop shipment and just don't do drop shipments

as a matter of policy. We are a PSA sub dealer and would be happy to assist you if need be.....

Awesome!  Would be awesome.  Let me know or can include you on PM.  Thanks Jack!

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4 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

Some retailers see this a s Drop shipment and just don't do drop shipments

as a matter of policy. We are a PSA sub dealer and would be happy to assist you if need be.....

You won't  disappointed detailing with Jack!!!

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Jack,

Thanks for your post.  I really also want to publicly thank Maksim who went out of his way on this to speak with his contacts at PSA!  I know that PSA said it is not compliant but I still do not agree with them saying it is not NJ compliant.  The law says:

What type of firearms are considered assault weapons in New Jersey?

A complete list of banned firearms can be found in N.J.S. 2C:39-1.w as well as N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2. If a firearm is not specifically listed by name then it may be considered to be substantially identical if it has the following qualities;

semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
(1) A folding or telescoping stock;
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(3) A bayonet mount;
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash
suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

The Socum M1A only has one of the "bad" qualities and that is a threaded barrel.  The law does not include a flash suppressor as one and a threaded barrel as another.  My FFL at CDI who is a retired NJ policeman said to me without any hesitation that this is a NJ compliant gun. 

I understand the reality that PSA has had to deal with the bad eggs who seek to get something illegally by shipping a gun to an out of state FFL and then the FFL is caught off guard totally and ships things back to PSA on their dime and that these things ruin it for those of us who seek to abide by the law.  So they put their policies in place and then you get the problem that one policy stands for all and then they won't change their policy because of how they have been treated.  It is always easier to make one policy and stick by it.

I think a better policy to handle these types of things in this scenario would be to require the purchaser to have their FFL call PSA and speak to them so that the compliance people at PSA can know that the FFL is taking the responsibility on this.  Then if the purchaser does not do what they should then they just cancel the order because it has the appearance of something fishy going on.  In addition if the FFL can do the necessary compliance work and takes that responsibility then they know it is good and everyone is on board.  But again maybe they would see that as asking too much.  I go by the golden rule in my business and that is treat others in the same way that you would want to be treated.  For the future if I purchase any guns from PSA I will know what I am up against.

I appreciate your offer Jack very much.  I have done a lot of business over the years with Sean at CDI.  He has not steered me wrong and he follows all the rules.  I know what he will charge me as well.

If you want to private message me and let me know what your fees would be etc then I can consider it.  At this point PSA's website shows that this rifle is now out of stock and that makes sense since it was a really good price at $1,199.  That is all in Providence.  

I may take the time to send a snail mail letter to PSA.  I did a follow up as I said in my original post and no one responded.  I think that they could have taken the time to at least have responded.  Customer service is important when you are running a business.

Thanks again for everyone's post and follow through.  I really appreciated it.

Sincerely,

Rob

 

 

 

 

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@robpm Jack will not sell you anything that is not compliant!  He also does compliance work if required.  You'll be surprised at what Jack charges for a transfer.

I know you like the guy you've dealt with in the past. Sometimes you have to make things easy on yourself though.

I've only been dealing with NJ firearms laws for over 50 years  (with a few years exception when I lived in other states).

Jack is one of the best people I've dealt with.

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Well I spoke with (Dealer) rep at PSA and they do have a couple of policies that transend into this discussion:

1) The sales rep that said it was not NJ compliant should have gone a little bit further and checked to see if a NJ dealer would accept the transfer for a non-compliant gun and then make it compliant but when the routing was changed to a PA dealer for a NJ resident it caused them some concern and they must abide by the rules their compliance office gives them to go by. Not always fair, or correct , but they have a cover their butt policy and they have to follow it regardless.

2) PSA will not Drop Ship any shipments (Internet sales, dealer, ect.) so when the order was requested to a dealer outside of the buyers home state, it threw up another flag.

PSA is a Good reputable seller, and we as a PSA Sub dealer can often sell any of their products (Made by / lables as PSA) at pricing lower then they advertise on their web site. The "Other Brands" (Springfield, ect.) are discounted so low a PSA Dealer cannot discount it any lower, and Frankly I couldn't get that M1A Somcom any cheaper as a dealer then the cust. can.

All the being said - If you want a good / fair deal on a PSA made weapon - contact us and we would be glad to assist, otherwise if you are going to use a dealer in PA - get them to either buy the gun for you or look for another dist. other than PSA............

JT

 

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