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Prep For Quarantine / Pandemic

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9 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

The evidence of it's effectiveness is incontrovertible.  It has pulled people literally on the brink of death back.  There is no perfect pill.  This drug has serious risks for a select group of people with specific risk factors.  There is no reason in the world to deny prophylactic treatment because it doesn't work for a minority.  It sounds like scared people taking their anger and frustration out on people that can stay, and become well.  Wahh...if i cant get better with it because I lost the genetics lottery, you cant have it either, so fuck you.

Again, where is the evidence? Haven't seen a single post on here that has a shred of evidence other than boisterous claims of it being the miracle drug. If you can point me to a specific medical study that shows demonstrable evidence of its effectiveness on coronavirus, ill change my opinion on the subject, but I don't think any of you can because your seeing it on twitter.

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6 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

The evidence of it's effectiveness is incontrovertible.  It has pulled people literally on the brink of death back.  There is no perfect pill.  This drug has serious risks for a select group of people with specific risk factors.  There is no reason in the world to deny prophylactic treatment because it doesn't work for a minority.  It sounds like scared people taking their anger and frustration out on people that can stay, and become well.  Wahh...if i cant get better with it because I lost the genetics lottery, you cant have it either, so fuck you.

Fauci is no better than Josef Mengele!:mad:  Many in a test group must suffer and die to prove without a doubt in controlled studies before he can admit it works! SCREW FAUCI!

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1 minute ago, JohnnyB said:

 

Fauci is no better than Josef Mengele!:mad:  Many in a test group must suffer and die to prove without a doubt in controlled studies before he can admit it works! SCREW FAUCI!

lol That's the single most absurd thing I have heard this month. You can come out from the bomb shelter now and breath the fresh air for a bit.

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9 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

The evidence of it's effectiveness is incontrovertible.  It has pulled people literally on the brink of death back.  There is no perfect pill.  This drug has serious risks for a select group of people with specific risk factors.  There is no reason in the world to deny prophylactic treatment because it doesn't work for a minority.  It sounds like scared people taking their anger and frustration out on people that can stay, and become well.  Wahh...if i cant get better with it because I lost the genetics lottery, you cant have it either, so fuck you.

There is a MAJOR implication here that people dont get. Genetics plays a MAJOR role in drug metabolism. A lot of people have defects in Cytochrome enzymes that play major roles in drug metabolism into their active compounds. Does that mean the drugs dont work? no, it just wont work for that individual, and its more common than you think

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3 minutes ago, Spawne32 said:

Again, where is the evidence? Haven't seen a single post on here that has a shred of evidence other than boisterous claims of it being the miracle drug. If you can point me to a specific medical study that shows demonstrable evidence of its effectiveness on coronavirus, ill change my opinion on the subject, but I don't think any of you can because your seeing it on twitter.

 

There are a ton of anecdotal reports like this(https://www.stevegruber.com/2020/03/covid-19-survivor-praises-president-trump-and-hydroxychloroquine-i-am-living-proof-it-works/).

You can google them for hours.

 Here are some that are not:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-for-covid-19-new-clinical-trial-results/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-update-on-the-coronavirus-treatment-11585509827

https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/220076/coronavirus-updates/covid-19-more-hydroxychloroquine-data-france-more

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2

The original french study here: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

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7 minutes ago, Spawne32 said:

lol That's the single most absurd thing I have heard this month. You can come out from the bomb shelter now and breath the fresh air for a bit.

You showed up here 3 days ago on a board for 2A gun rights.  You do not have a single post regarding guns.....What is your agenda here?

I stand by my comments!  The anti malaria drugs are working everywhere....to deny that fact is to invite the deaths of many sick people.....To allow that to happen, it means you are in league with the Devi Satin himself or even worse, the Democrats!

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Just now, JohnnyB said:

You showed up here 3 days ago on a board for 2A gun rights.  You do not have a single post regarding guns.....What is your agenda here?

I stand by my comments!  The anti malaria drugs are working everywhere....to deny that fact is to invite the deaths of many sick people.....To allow that to happen, it means you are in league with the Devi Satin himself or even worse, the Democrats!

I have been a registered member of the board since 2017. I have multiple posts related to guns, and I have no agenda other than being bored and stuck in the house for 3 weeks. Comparing a guy who developed treatments that saved thousands of lives and has dedicated his life to that cause of helping people, to a disgusting Nazi officer who conducted horrific experiments on Jews in concentration camps is down right fucking disgusting, and you're a disgusting human being for even suggesting it who I need not worry about even responding to. I'd rather carry a conversation with someone who has a few brain cells. 3 Month's ago if you heard the name Anthony Fauci you wouldn't even know who it was.

8 minutes ago, Malsua said:

I'll read them, several of them seem to be quoting the original french study however.

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Fauci doesnt have to admit it works, thats not his job. 

My problem is that he consistently pushes bullshit without a thought to it.. mostly in contrast to trumps statements with little evidence to back up his own claims. 

WHO has been no better, either.

Now they are telling us to wear masks?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes. 

 

The fact of the matter is, with so many cases on infections they could have an entire LARGE study completed in under 2 weeks... and they have KNOW ABOUT THIS FOR LONGER THAN THAT ALREADY

 

If a single study was conducted in a NYC hospital last week we would already have an answer to this. Its not like its gonna be hard to get people to participate..

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14 minutes ago, Spawne32 said:

I have been a registered member of the board since 2017. I have multiple posts related to guns, and I have no agenda other than being bored and stuck in the house for 3 weeks. Comparing a guy who developed treatments that saved thousands of lives and has dedicated his life to that cause of helping people, to a disgusting Nazi officer who conducted horrific experiments on Jews in concentration camps is down right fucking disgusting, and you're a disgusting human being for even suggesting it who I need not worry about even responding to. I'd rather carry a conversation with someone who has a few brain cells. 3 Month's ago if you heard the name Anthony Fauci you wouldn't even know who it was.

Multiple posts related to guns? I see zero!  A few brain cells?  Having been officially certified to be in the 99 percentile surely requires more than a few brain cells!  You know not who you are speaking to!  Anxiously awaiting your response Mr. Troll! :lol:

 

Guys, AVB-AMG and Greenday have invited a coworker!

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The FDA moves at the glacial pace that it does for good reason.... because of terrible things that happened in the past. Does anyone recall Thalidomide? It was a drug given to control nausea... all fine & dandy, until women started giving birth to children missing limbs!  That's why we have the slow, laborious safety testing and clinical trial process that we do today. 

And, although the malaria drugs have a decent safety profile - they're not without some risks. In some of these early COVID-19 trials, there were some patients that died of sudden cardiac arrest. It seems that the malaria drugs can do that for some patients with a certain congenital condition that impacts a part of their heartbeat - called a "long QT"  (a delayed time for the heart to recharge after its beat). Unfortunately, it's just not the people with that congenital defect either - a number of common anti-depressants also produce a long QT.  And we all know how common anti-depressants are in the US!

The point is, heart specialists at credible research centers (like the Mayo Clinic) are scrambling to put out guidance so doctors can prescribe these off-label drugs appropriately... which includes some necessary screening of patients. Although early anecdotal reports look promising for some patients, there may be COVID-19 patients who are not good candidates because their risk of sudden cardiac arrest is even greater than their risk of severe respiratory issues! One article referencing the Mayo guidance is here: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-28/risks-of-using-malaria-drugs-off-label-to-treat-covid-19

Honestly, I think the entire medical community is scrambling the best that it can under these really challenging circumstances. On the one hand, they are trying to proceed with all due haste --- and yet, also trying to balance that with appropriate caution at the same time. That's a near-impossible task! I give them credit for rallying as well as they are under extreme duress.    

 

 

 

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@Spawne32 - @JohnnyB - do I have to turn a hose on you two?

No personal insults, pls! Not appropriate. Ever. Be respectful to other posters.

We're all stuck in the house, watching grim news roll in, nerves are frayed... I get it. But, take a break, back awaaay from the keyboard for awhile!  

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Just now, Mrs. Peel said:

@Spawne32 - @JohnnyB - do I have to turn a hose on you two?

No personal insults, pls! Not appropriate. Ever. Be respectful to other posters.

We're all stuck in the house, watching grim news roll in, nerves are frayed... I get it. But, take a break, back awaaay from the keyboard for awhile!  

My apologies but that bit about comparing Fauci to Josef Mengele was just pretty damn sickening.

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3 minutes ago, Spawne32 said:

My apologies but that bit about comparing Fauci to Josef Mengele was just pretty damn sickening.

No apologies needed, but thanks! We all slip into keyboard warrior mode on occasion. I'm just giving a gentle reminder to ALL POSTERS to type with restraint! ;) 

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Just now, Mrs. Peel said:

No apologies need, but thanks! We all slip into keyboard warrior mode on occasion. I'm just giving a gentle reminder to ALL POSTERS to type with restraint! ;) 

Yeh, I just put him on ignore, no need to even dignify people like that with responses. Hopefully the weather is decent this weekend and I can breath the fresh air for a bit. lol

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7 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

The FDA moves at the glacial pace that it does for good reason.... because of terrible things that happened in the past. Does anyone recall Thalidomide? It was a drug given to control nausea... all fine & dandy, until women started giving birth to children missing limbs!  That's why we have the slow, laborious safety testing and clinical trial process that we do today. 

And, although the malaria drugs have a decent safety profile - they're not without some risks. In some of these early COVID-19 trials, there were some patients that died of sudden cardiac arrest. It seems that the malaria drugs can do that for some patients with a certain congenital condition that impacts a part of their heartbeat - called a "long QT"  (a delayed time for the heart to recharge after its beat). Unfortunately, it's just not the people with that congenital defect either - a number of common anti-depressants also produce a long QT.  And we all know how common anti-depressants are in the US!

The point is, heart specialists at credible research centers (like the Mayo Clinic) are scrambling to put out guidance so doctors can prescribe these off-label drugs appropriately... which includes some necessary screening of patients. Although early anecdotal reports look promising for some patients, there may be COVID-19 patients who are not good candidates because their risk of sudden cardiac arrest is even greater than their risk of severe respiratory issues! One article referencing the Mayo guidance is here: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-28/risks-of-using-malaria-drugs-off-label-to-treat-covid-19

Honestly, I think the entire medical community is scrambling the best that it can under these really challenging circumstances. On the one hand, they are trying to proceed with all due haste --- and yet, also trying to balance that with appropriate caution at the same time. That's a near-impossible task! I give them credit for rallying as well as they are under extreme duress.    

 

 

 

Of course no drug is with out risk, especially when considering other drug interactions. But KNOWING this already is a milestone in getting these trials started ASAP. We know so much about these drugs already, we are simply trying to discover it effectiveness in treating a different condition.

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The LAST thing dems want is a fast inexpensive treatment before November 3rd.

Once this runs it's course, there will be plenty of time to nit pick perfect cures.  Right now, we have to throw ALL the lead we have downrange, even granny's ol' snake eyes.  This is an unprecedented disaster, no one living has ever experienced such a thing.  We are solving the problem in REAL TIME, on the fly, and sometimes winging it.

hiQvbGus_400x400.jpg

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1 minute ago, Scorpio64 said:

The LAST thing dems want is a fast inexpensive treatment before November 3rd.

Once this runs it's course, there will be plenty of time to nit pick perfect cures.  Right now, we have to throw ALL the lead we have downrange, even granny's ol' snake eyes.  This is an unprecedented disaster, no one living has ever experienced such a thing.  We are solving the problem in REAL TIME, on the fly, and sometimes winging it.

hiQvbGus_400x400.jpg

The FDA approved the use of hydroxychloroquine under an emergency use order, so we will know soon enough its effectiveness I would think.

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Just now, Mrs. Peel said:

@Spawne32 - @JohnnyB - do I have to turn a hose on you two?

No personal insults, pls! Not appropriate. Ever. Be respectful to other posters.

We're all stuck in the house, watching grim news roll in, nerves are frayed... I get it. But, take a break, back awaaay from the keyboard for awhile!  

My dear Emma,

        I am NOT, nor have I ever been a troublemaker on this board!  I, unlike others here, do not enjoy debating those with an obvious agenda!  The fact is that the overwhelming majority of patients will benefit from treatment with the drug versus those whom it could hurt!

         A few questions, in most cases could separate those two groups and in the end,  ensure that those patients whose lives can be be saved by these drugs will be saved!  What could make more sense?   To run FDA approved clinical tests at a time like this, when people are dying is pure insanity!

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I'm just giving a gentle reminder to ALL POSTERS to type with restraint! ;) 

Don't let Peel fool you, she is not gentle at all.  The last thing you want to do is make her go get the wooden spoon.  Don't get all excited, it ain't gonna be kinky. 

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I remember when the FDA pushed the swine flu vaccine through, skipping trials and stuff. People flipped out because the companies making the vaccine wouldn't be held responsible for bad side effects due to lack of testing. Seems like the same people are pushing for this to be pushed through now without proper testing. Maybe it does actually help. Who knows.

Actually getting a chance to read the study. It's interesting, but there's some key flaws to point out that need to be addressed. Nothing about severity for the patients. I like that the average timeline of the virus is the same for controls and for treated. There's a clear age difference, but you'd expect it to work against the drug's favor. I just feel like there's so much we don't know about the patients. Were these all moderate cases? Three patients on the drug transferred to the ICU because their symptoms became too severe. Another died even though their nasal swab came back clear. Another became sick on the drug.

So some data from it looks promising, but there's plenty of reason for hesitating.

2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

The LAST thing dems want is a fast inexpensive treatment before November 3rd.

Once this runs it's course, there will be plenty of time to nit pick perfect cures.  Right now, we have to throw ALL the lead we have downrange, even granny's ol' snake eyes.  This is an unprecedented disaster, no one living has ever experienced such a thing.  We are solving the problem in REAL TIME, on the fly, and sometimes winging it.

hiQvbGus_400x400.jpg

That's a sick accusation and a disgrace to suggest politicians don't want people to get better. You've fallen for the BS us vs them mentality.

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9 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

man that is one unlucky co-worker. don't stand next to him/her during a lightning storm

Think it was more than 1 co-worker lol...at least I hope!

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While everyone is arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, some aren't paying attention to a couple of problems that are looming.

First, food supply was at a very high stockpile back before these stay in place orders hit.   That stockpile has been reduced significantly.

Read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-food-supply.html

This means a couple things to you.

1.  Plant a garden if you want fresh veggies this year.   Get your seeds and whatever you need to plant and get it now.  When people realize what hundreds of thousands of migrant workers not showing up means, all those supplies will disappear.

2.  Get more of the canned types of veggies now.    There is no real downside to this as that stuff lasts years and in 2023 if there are no veggies shortages, you can open that last can of beans and finally clear out your stockpile.

As a corollary to point 2, learn how to can.  My wife has been doing it for years.  My favorite are her bread and butter pickles.  We opened a can last week for some frozen burgers.  Nothing like it you can buy anywhere.  Totally awesome.

3.  If you can get a small freezer, lay in some extra meat.   Once again, I don't think there will be shortages.  There will however probably be outages.  This means if you can't get to store around when the truck has shown up and  the products are put out, you won't be able to get it.  Supply bottlenecks are going to occur.  Count on it.  They look like the toilet paper situation.

 

The next big problem will be the recession/depression that's going to come.   Once all the fed party money gets spent, real pain is going to happen.   When we start seeing the real unemployment numbers hitting 20+%, and the fed realizes that the fire hose of money isn't helping, they will turn off the tap and deflation is certain.    Everyone will be competing for the jobs that do exist, meaning wage deflation is certain.    This means a couple key things.

1.  Don't incur any new debt.  You don't want to borrow money that is worth more tomorrow.  This is what is great about inflation.  Every year, the value of the dollar goes down.  I could buy a 1970 $15,000 middle class home out of my 2020 savings.  What changed?  The value of the dollar went down and $15,000 today is worth probably 10% of what it was worth in 1970.   

2.  Eat cheaper.  Grow a garden. See point above.

3.  Pay off the debt you can.   I have two mortgages, both are small.  I could probably pay one or maybe both of them off this year if we re-structure things.  It would help if the market recovers.

4.  Having some hard assets is helpful, but not depreciating assets(like cars).    Not mountains of it, just some to get through a lean period if you need to sell.   Guns, ammo, silver, etc.  Use your imagination. 

5.  Improve your skillsets.  I can do framing, plumbing, electric, finish carpentry, cabinets, trap, hunt, fish, cook, rebuild engines, swing an axe, a sledge hammer, I can write code, fix just about any computer, make rj45 cables, configure commercial networking equipment,  monitor and configure your AD, your DHCP, DNS, set up surveillance systems, use wireshark and track down misbehaving network devices, on and on.   Some stuff I suck at.  Fidgety work that requires patience and finesse.  Like sewing.   Stuff that requires good dexterity is not my strong suit, but I'm learning.    Everyone should.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For what it's worth

I buy SSDs regularly for work computers.

In late December you could buy a 1TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD for around $110.00 from Newegg.

Today that same device will cost you $169.00.

China is back in production.  They are not where they were.   My understanding from my Chinese colleagues is that they are being threatened about sickness.  If you are even slightly not feeling well, stay home. 

If you show up to work sick, you may get "evacuated".

I think that's Chinese for "put in front of a ditch and shot".  In the US we ventilate people to save them, in China, "ventilation" means something else entirely.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Malsua said:

 

While everyone is arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, some aren't paying attention to a couple of problems that are looming.

First, food supply was at a very high stockpile back before these stay in place orders hit.   That stockpile has been reduced significantly.

Read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-food-supply.html

This means a couple things to you.

1.  Plant a garden if you want fresh veggies this year.   Get your seeds and whatever you need to plant and get it now.  When people realize what hundreds of thousands of migrant workers not showing up means, all those supplies will disappear.

2.  Get more of the canned types of veggies now.    There is no real downside to this as that stuff lasts years and in 2023 if there are no veggies shortages, you can open that last can of beans and finally clear out your stockpile.

As a corollary to point 2, learn how to can.  My wife has been doing it for years.  My favorite are her bread and butter pickles.  We opened a can last week for some frozen burgers.  Nothing like it you can buy anywhere.  Totally awesome.

3.  If you can get a small freezer, lay in some extra meat.   Once again, I don't think there will be shortages.  There will however probably be outages.  This means if you can't get to store around when the truck has shown up and  the products are put out, you won't be able to get it.  Supply bottlenecks are going to occur.  Count on it.  They look like the toilet paper situation.

 

The next big problem will be the recession/depression that's going to come.   Once all the fed party money gets spent, real pain is going to happen.   When we start seeing the real unemployment numbers hitting 20+%, and the fed realizes that the fire hose of money isn't helping, they will turn off the tap and deflation is certain.    Everyone will be competing for the jobs that do exist, meaning wage deflation is certain.    This means a couple key things.

1.  Don't incur any new debt.  You don't want to borrow money that is worth more tomorrow.  This is what is great about inflation.  Every year, the value of the dollar goes down.  I could buy a 1970 $15,000 middle class home out of my 2020 savings.  What changed?  The value of the dollar went down and $15,000 today is worth probably 10% of what it was worth in 1970.   

2.  Eat cheaper.  Grow a garden. See point above.

3.  Pay off the debt you can.   I have two mortgages, both are small.  I could probably pay one or maybe both of them off this year if we re-structure things.  It would help if the market recovers.

4.  Having some hard assets is helpful, but not depreciating assets(like cars).    Not mountains of it, just some to get through a lean period if you need to sell.   Guns, ammo, silver, etc.  Use your imagination. 

5.  Improve your skillsets.  I can do framing, plumbing, electric, finish carpentry, cabinets, trap, hunt, fish, cook, rebuild engines, swing an axe, a sledge hammer, I can write code, fix just about any computer, make rj45 cables, configure commercial networking equipment,  monitor and configure your AD, your DHCP, DNS, set up surveillance systems, use wireshark and track down misbehaving network devices, on and on.   Some stuff I suck at.  Fidgety work that requires patience and finesse.  Like sewing.   Stuff that requires good dexterity is not my strong suit, but I'm learning.    Everyone should.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent points !

We did it once and survived - we can do it again - https://www.womenshistory.org/articles/food-rationing-and-canning-world-war-ii

We did it once and survived - we can do it again - https://livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/crops_02.html

We just finished up some pickles from last season about a month ago - and we still have frozen tomato sauce from all of them we bought and grew....

Maybe just maybe all those out of work people will need to be put back to work in the fields if needed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Malsua said:

 

While everyone is arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, some aren't paying attention to a couple of problems that are looming.

First, food supply was at a very high stockpile back before these stay in place orders hit.   That stockpile has been reduced significantly.

Read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-food-supply.html

This means a couple things to you.

1.  Plant a garden if you want fresh veggies this year.   Get your seeds and whatever you need to plant and get it now.  When people realize what hundreds of thousands of migrant workers not showing up means, all those supplies will disappear.

2.  Get more of the canned types of veggies now.    There is no real downside to this as that stuff lasts years and in 2023 if there are no veggies shortages, you can open that last can of beans and finally clear out your stockpile.

As a corollary to point 2, learn how to can.  My wife has been doing it for years.  My favorite are her bread and butter pickles.  We opened a can last week for some frozen burgers.  Nothing like it you can buy anywhere.  Totally awesome.

3.  If you can get a small freezer, lay in some extra meat.   Once again, I don't think there will be shortages.  There will however probably be outages.  This means if you can't get to store around when the truck has shown up and  the products are put out, you won't be able to get it.  Supply bottlenecks are going to occur.  Count on it.  They look like the toilet paper situation.

 

The next big problem will be the recession/depression that's going to come.   Once all the fed party money gets spent, real pain is going to happen.   When we start seeing the real unemployment numbers hitting 20+%, and the fed realizes that the fire hose of money isn't helping, they will turn off the tap and deflation is certain.    Everyone will be competing for the jobs that do exist, meaning wage deflation is certain.    This means a couple key things.

1.  Don't incur any new debt.  You don't want to borrow money that is worth more tomorrow.  This is what is great about inflation.  Every year, the value of the dollar goes down.  I could buy a 1970 $15,000 middle class home out of my 2020 savings.  What changed?  The value of the dollar went down and $15,000 today is worth probably 10% of what it was worth in 1970.   

2.  Eat cheaper.  Grow a garden. See point above.

3.  Pay off the debt you can.   I have two mortgages, both are small.  I could probably pay one or maybe both of them off this year if we re-structure things.  It would help if the market recovers.

4.  Having some hard assets is helpful, but not depreciating assets(like cars).    Not mountains of it, just some to get through a lean period if you need to sell.   Guns, ammo, silver, etc.  Use your imagination. 

5.  Improve your skillsets.  I can do framing, plumbing, electric, finish carpentry, cabinets, trap, hunt, fish, cook, rebuild engines, swing an axe, a sledge hammer, I can write code, fix just about any computer, make rj45 cables, configure commercial networking equipment,  monitor and configure your AD, your DHCP, DNS, set up surveillance systems, use wireshark and track down misbehaving network devices, on and on.   Some stuff I suck at.  Fidgety work that requires patience and finesse.  Like sewing.   Stuff that requires good dexterity is not my strong suit, but I'm learning.    Everyone should.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of good points here. 
 

The interesting one is debts.  I didn’t live through the 70s, and wasn’t a major purchaser in the 80s, but I do remember vaguely as a child when mortgages were 15%+. 
 

If prices for goods increase with inflation, and you can buy something for $1 today that will cost $2 next year as they inflate money to pay for stimulus, it seems almost worth it to incur the debt, because you can buy an item with intrinsic value of something, and pay it off with cheaper dollars in the future. 
 

im not buying real estate, and am not sure that holds because RE may drop with the recession that is looming.  
 

But if we are expecting inflation, and can leverage no/low interest credit, I kind of have to wonder if the premise on debt is correct. Or is there a game that one could play to make out on durable items (since this is a firearms forum, let’s use firearms as an example) that results in a net benefit.  I’m generally a Dave Ramsey guy, so down on debt, big on investment.  But cash savings will be decimated if inflation runs rampant... and while now and the future may be a stock buying opportunity, timing it is tough.  So, maybe the answer is to buy needed/desired durable goods?

we already started planting for the year - do need to get more peppers and tomatoes...

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