muzzelloader69 9 Posted February 28, 2020 does anybody reload shotgun shells? , i was just wondering because you can get real cheap boxes of shells if you shop around, compared to reloading yourself, i no people reload to custom tailor there loads for shooting, but if your just a once a month shooter does it pay off to reload your own? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted February 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, muzzelloader69 said: if your just a once a month shooter does it pay off to reload your own? For 12GA & 20GA casual shooters, yes and no. In the short term, you save very little or maybe nothing at all. X number of years from now, when buying ammo is a bigger hassle and the prices have doubled or tripled, all the reloading supplies you bought today will payoff then. 410GA, 16GA, 28GA. All worth reloading. 12/20 GA Shotshell reloading is fairly cheap to get into. There is a virtually unlimited supply of free used hulls if you know where to pick them up, primers cost like 3 cents each, an 8# jug of powder will last a very very long time, producing the equivalent of 11 to 12 flats (nearly 3000 shells), and a Lee Load-All press will set you back about $60.00. There is little incentive to get into 12/20ga shotshell reloading. But, being so inexpensive to get into, there is even less of a reason to not buy yourself a little "insurance" for the future. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 28, 2020 OK, here's my take on shotshell reloading: It's kind of like reloading 9mm or .223, but worse. With 9mm and .223 you really can't load significantly cheaper than you can buy. You save maybe 1-2 cents a round vs shopping for sales. However for that price you can load better ammo than you get for the money. With shotshells, you are mostly making a load that works worse than commercial stuff. You can't crimp and finish the shell as nicely as even the cheap factory stuff. You don't have access to the weird specialty shot the factories do. Basically the only place you have a lot of options you won't find on the shelf are in your powder choice. While reloads work fine in over unders, they may work less fine in pumps or semis. This all depends on your hull conditioning and crimping. Taking a load recipe from online, going with the average wad price, free hulls, cheapest primers, cheapest lead. I get $56.23 per 250. $0.22 per round. That doesn't even include shipping or hazmat. I have a lot of choices at that price point. Now if you want to do old school brass hulls and stuff, yeah reloading is the way to go. And heck if you do want to reload, look used. SO m,any people seem to get into shotshell reloading and abandon it and will ditch nice gear CHEAP. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, muzzelloader69 said: does anybody reload shotgun shells? , i was just wondering because you can get real cheap boxes of shells if you shop around, compared to reloading yourself, i no people reload to custom tailor there loads for shooting, but if your just a once a month shooter does it pay off to reload your own? No Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted February 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, raz-0 said: With shotshells, you are mostly making a load that works worse than commercial stuff. A lot of trap and skeet shooters would disagree with that opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eyeinstine 241 Posted February 28, 2020 everything thats been said thus far is spot on... Heres my take; I have not reloaded YET.. A few months ago i was at a local auction and let myself get caught up in the bidding and way over paid for a used MEC 650.. Probably about 110$ after buyers premium and tax.. After i got it home and looked it over, everything looks great EXCEPT the primer tray/tube thingie is missing. Still need to find that! Fast forward to last months auction at the same place, and i picked up a bag of 600+ once fired AA hulls and a 500 count bag of unopened wads.. About 12$ out the door.. As has been said, theres no savings reloading 12ga. Factor your time, and your losing money or wasting your time in most peoples eyes.. BUT, for me, im looking at this like hunting deer or planting the back yard garden.. Hunting with licenses, permits, buck tags, guns, ammo etc is way more expensive than buying some common meats at the grocery store. Gardening, not cheap! and very time consuming! But we do it, its enjoyable and self reliance is rewarding.. So getting started in relaoding seems about the same ideals to me.. I want my teenage son to try a hand at it too. A fun learning experience.. And about that self reliance thing, being able to reload is huge.. I always say; i can hunt, fish, grow crops, i have guns, trucks, and can build anything. Me and my family will survive almost anything. Anarchy, blackouts, crumbled infastructure, colapsed economy, etc, etc.. Knowing i always have access to make ammo makes all that even easier.. Ron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, eyeinstine said: everything thats been said thus far is spot on... Heres my take; I have not reloaded YET.. A few months ago i was at a local auction and let myself get caught up in the bidding and way over paid for a used MEC 650.. Probably about 110$ after buyers premium and tax.. After i got it home and looked it over, everything looks great EXCEPT the primer tray/tube thingie is missing. Still need to find that! Fast forward to last months auction at the same place, and i picked up a big of 600+ once fired AA hulls and a 500 count bag of unopened wads.. About 12$ out the door.. As has been said, theres no savings reloading 12ga. Factor your time, and your losing money or wasting you time in most peoples eyes.. BUT, for me, im looking at this like hunting deer or planting the back yard garden.. Hunting with licenses, permits, buck tags, guns, ammo etc is way more expensive than buying some common meats at the grocery store. Gardening, not cheap! and very time consuming! But we do it, its enjoyable and self reliance is rewarding.. So getting started in relaoding seems about the same ideals to me.. I want my teenage son to try a hand it too. A fun learning experience.. And about that self reliance thing, being able to reload is huge.. I always say; i can hunt, fish, grow crops, i have guns, trucks, and can build anything. Me and my family will survive almost anything. Anarchy, blackouts, crumbled infastructure, colapsed economy, etc, etc.. Knowing i always have access to make ammo makes all that even easier.. Ron That’s why I’m considering it. It’s not a huge savings, but I can get more on hand with a little muscle and time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Zeke said: That’s why I’m considering it. It’s not a huge savings, but I can get more on hand with a little muscle and time Given the bulk of components and the weight of some of them, you may actually be able to buy and stack more not reloading. The sweat equity discount may not just be small, it may be non existent or negative. You have to look at your supply chain. Last time I looked into it was during the last panic. Even then, while 12ga became less plentiful and more expensive, it never became less plentiful and accessible than components. For me there was an added space component. Keeping component stock encroached into things like my storage of powder for pistol and rifle and used it's portion of that budget inefficiently. It just didn't work out, it was cheaper and more effective to just buy cases of ammo and store them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muzzelloader69 9 Posted February 28, 2020 i just thought id get some feedback on the issue , because i no someone who is selling a mec grabber, so maybe i'll just apply my money towards a new handgun instead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: A lot of trap and skeet shooters would disagree with that opinion. A lot of trap and skeet people just buy winchester AA too. Even so, I specifically pointed out that over unders are where you gain the most and compromise the least. Once you start having to feed from a magazine is where reloaders have an upper bound on their QC practices compared to commercial ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted February 28, 2020 26 minutes ago, raz-0 said: Given the bulk of components and the weight of some of them, you may actually be able to buy and stack more not reloading All of the components (hull, primer,powder,wad, and shot) in their individual packs will take up more space than flats. No argument there. BUT.... An 8# jug of powder and 3 boxes of primers take up very little space and is vastly more portable. Like I said, 3000 reloads from one 8# jug is the same as 12 flats. There are many great reasons for reloading. Currently, savings does not top of the list, but savings should not be the singular attraction to reloading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted February 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, muzzelloader69 said: i no someone who is selling a mec grabber, What is your friend asking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: What is your friend asking? Wow! You jumping on it! You whore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said: All of the components (hull, primer,powder,wad, and shot) in their individual packs will take up more space than flats. No argument there. BUT.... An 8# jug of powder and 3 boxes of primers take up very little space and is vastly more portable. Like I said, 3000 reloads from one 8# jug is the same as 12 flats. There are many great reasons for reloading. Currently, savings does not top of the list, but savings should not be the singular attraction to reloading. You don't have a single round until you have all of the components. So I'm not seeing the point of your argument about powder and primers. Shot is pretty compact too, but I have to store the hulls and wads someplace if I want to be able to actually reload a single round. Cost isn't the only reason to reload, but I've taken the opportunity to try out the loads of the couple of people I know who load 12ga that is usable in pumps or semis (QC aside, they are loading factory bulk equivalent loads), and while they claim they are nicer all day long, they are indistinguishable to me. So I don't get savings, and I don't get performance. I can store X amount of powder, and it takes a bigger bite out of that limit than pistol or rifle. Then there's time. Which I could spend loading rifle or pistol, which gets me savings and performance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, raz-0 said: You don't have a single round until you have all of the components. So I'm not seeing the point of your argument about powder and primers. Shot is pretty compact too, but I have to store the hulls and wads someplace if I want to be able to actually reload a single round. Cost isn't the only reason to reload, but I've taken the opportunity to try out the loads of the couple of people I know who load 12ga that is usable in pumps or semis (QC aside, they are loading factory bulk equivalent loads), and while they claim they are nicer all day long, they are indistinguishable to me. So I don't get savings, and I don't get performance. I can store X amount of powder, and it takes a bigger bite out of that limit than pistol or rifle. Then there's time. Which I could spend loading rifle or pistol, which gets me savings and performance. Depends on what you personally shoot more, vs your space etc. it’s a fence sitting argument for me currently. But I don’t shoot 28 or .410 Soo there is that. last time I checked it was $.03 a shell in savings for 12 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted February 28, 2020 With trap loads available for less than $6/box, I'm not currently loading shotgun shells, especially since I don't have a progressive press for shotshells. But there are a good number of powders that can do double duty as shotshell or handgun powders. Red dot and Blue dot are two of my favorites, so you don't necessarily have to double up on the powder inventory. Primers, yes, wads, yes, hulls, yes...and those are bulky. Back when all cars were rear-wheel drive, I stored my shot in the trunk in wintertime... Those who cast their own bullets could view stockpiled shot as an emergency supply of lead, should commercial bullets get scarce for some reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 29, 2020 The costs and benefits beyond dollars and cents are situational. Yes, I can load shotgun using my pistol powder. But I have a 36lb limit on powder in NJ and for every round of shotgun I load, that’s 3-5 rounds of pistol I can’t out of that supply. someone who shoots less and reloads less may not have these concerns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted February 29, 2020 I started reloading in the 60's with my dad. I always enjoyed reloading with him. He thought it was a great way to save money on hunting loads. We were loading paper shells back then, with waxed and fiber wads. Times evolved, and prices went up. In 1995 I was still reloading shotshells for $.10/round with components bought at the local gunshops whenever I stopped in for a visit. When components were everywhere, it never dawned on me to buy in bulk. Then things changed. Primers became scarce, lead shot became scarce and the new precious metal, gunpowder became hard to find, etc. Local gunshops stopped carrying wads, powder, and soon all reloading components and accessories, etc. But I still reload 12, 16 & 20 gauges. I can tailor and make any load in any combination that I want. That's why I do it. Cheap factory shells today are cheap for a reason. Brass washed steel bases instead of brass are tough on chambers and reloading equipment. The low antimony shot they use often make for inferior patterns. Unless you opt for a quality plastic shell, most of the cheap shells are also inferior to reload with. Are the cheaper factory loads okay for impromptu hand-thrown clay bird sessions? Sure they are. Can you hunt with them? Sure you can. Can you break clays from the 16 yard trap line or Station 4 on a skeet field; of course you can. Then again, no Olympic shooter that I know of is using factory Remington Gun Club's today. If you don't hunt, are only an occasional shooter, don't have a need to make 2 1/2" shells for your old doubles, don't have a need to roll 3/4 oz. 20 ga. loads to save money, don't have a need for 7/8 oz. 12 ga practice loads, don't have a need to make your own buckshot loads or don't have a need to make a heavy 16 ga. pheasant load; then it may not make much sense to reload. Wakeman's take on quality shells is a good read: https://www.chuckhawks.com/good_shotgun_shell.html 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eyeinstine 241 Posted February 29, 2020 while were on the topic.. Anyone have a source, or laying around, a MEC650 compatable primer feeder?? Even the old tube style; maybe from one of the many times someone upgraded to the tray style. I just want to get this 650 up and operational.. Also, a good source of supplies?? Shot, powder, primers, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted February 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, eyeinstine said: Anyone have a source Gene Solomon E.H. Solomon Shooter Supply 142 Yellowbrook Rd, Farmingdale, NJ 07727 Open Wed 1830 -2100, Fri 1830-2100 and Sun 1300-1600 In my opinion, this is the best guy in NJ for anything related to shotgun reloading, actually reloading in general. He has odd hours but absolutely worth working around. The guy knows his shit and is happy to share his wealth of knowledge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted February 29, 2020 4 hours ago, eyeinstine said: while were on the topic.. Anyone have a source, or laying around, a MEC650 compatable primer feeder?? Even the old tube style; maybe from one of the many times someone upgraded to the tray style. I just want to get this 650 up and operational.. Also, a good source of supplies?? Shot, powder, primers, etc. If you are planning to load hunting rounds, I've got steel and bismuth shot, fiber wads, over shot wads, and assorted other components. If you're interested I'll put together a list of what I've got. Not looking to get much for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc17 622 Posted April 14, 2021 Bringing this back to the top. Midway has Lee Load-All II back in stock for $73 with free shipping. Seems a decent price in today's market. Availability of components is still a bit scarce. I've got a question I did not see specifically addressed. My Remington 1100 Semi tends to be a little finicky with some shells. I assume I'd be able to dial in a custom load just like you can dial in custom rifle loads, yes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted April 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, kc17 said: Bringing this back to the top. Midway has Lee Load-All II back in stock for $73 with free shipping. Seems a decent price in today's market. Availability of components is still a bit scarce. I've got a question I did not see specifically addressed. My Remington 1100 Semi tends to be a little finicky with some shells. I assume I'd be able to dial in a custom load just like you can dial in custom rifle loads, yes? Yep! You can dial in custom loads that make your gun happy. I'd stick within the range of published load data, but that should give you enough leeway. If anyone is working up hunting loads, I've got an assortment of non-toxic shot, steel and bismuth, plus some wads (mostly fiber) I'll sell cheap! Probably some shot shell primers, too. I can put together a list if there is interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc17 622 Posted April 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, 10X said: Yep! You can dial in custom loads that make your gun happy. I'd stick within the range of published load data, but that should give you enough leeway. If anyone is working up hunting loads, I've got an assortment of non-toxic shot, steel and bismuth, plus some wads (mostly fiber) I'll sell cheap! Probably some shot shell primers, too. I can put together a list if there is interest. What makes them specific for hunting, just being non-toxic or the shot size/weight also? I'm just shooting clays, not hunting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted April 14, 2021 Non-toxic shot is required for waterfowl hunting, most everywhere, I think, and I believe on some non-waterfowl gamelands (I paused my hunting activities when I moved to NJ, so I'm not that up on the current regulations). For busting clays, lead holds the advantage (cheaper, denser, softer). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted April 14, 2021 On 2/28/2020 at 7:08 PM, raz-0 said: The costs and benefits beyond dollars and cents are situational. Yes, I can load shotgun using my pistol powder. But I have a 36lb limit on powder in NJ and for every round of shotgun I load, that’s 3-5 rounds of pistol I can’t out of that supply. someone who shoots less and reloads less may not have these concerns. Where did you get that 36lb limit from? I thought it was 100lbs for smokeless poweder? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chencaerulescens 15 Posted April 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: Where did you get that 36lb limit from? I thought it was 100lbs for smokeless poweder? NEW JERSEY GENERAL AND PERMANENT STATUTES (UPDATED THROUGH P.L. 2021) 21:1A-133 (A): No permit shall be required for the storage, transportation or use of smokeless powder which is used by private persons for the hand loading of small arms ammunition and which is not for resale. For this purpose not more than 36 lbs. of smokeless powder and not more than 5 pounds of black powder shall be stored or transported without a permit. The "limit" refers to possession without a permit. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted April 14, 2021 6 hours ago, kc17 said: I assume I'd be able to dial in a custom load just like you can dial in custom rifle loads, yes? More or less. You can adjust the amount of shot, powder, wad and primer in many useful ways, but it does not increase accuracy per se, it's more like tailoring a shell to your particular shooting style. Kinda like having your own bowling ball. The Lee loader will get you whatever custom loads you want, but you have to develop them. Honestly, I'm not a good enough trap shooter that custom loads would make much of a difference for me. I just stick with replicating loads I like, such as Rem Gun Club or Fed Top Gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc17 622 Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said: More or less. You can adjust the amount of shot, powder, wad and primer in many useful ways, but it does not increase accuracy per se, it's more like tailoring a shell to your particular shooting style. Kinda like having your own bowling ball. The Lee loader will get you whatever custom loads you want, but you have to develop them. Honestly, I'm not a good enough trap shooter that custom loads would make much of a difference for me. I just stick with replicating loads I like, such as Rem Gun Club or Fed Top Gun. I meant for more consistent cycling in the shotgun, not accuracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted April 14, 2021 8 hours ago, kc17 said: My Remington 1100 Semi tends to be a little finicky with some shells. I assume I'd be able to dial in a custom load just like you can dial in custom rifle loads, yes? I had the same issue with my 1100 and found a worn O ring in the gas chamber. You might want to clean and inspect that area. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites