SOCOM16, perfect or ridiculous?

[silverado427 9,566]

8 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Yes. ADM Also makes the lowest mount I have found for a PRO. I have one on my MSAR.

I know it has a light - because you’re sensible. I was responding to Silverado saying to lose the light.

If its your only fighting weapon then yes on the light. But if you have other options like a AR  Then my answer is lose it not every rifle needs a light. jmho

[carl_g 568]

I'd opt for an AK all day long over that beast for a self defense gun.

[YankeeSC 1,181]

I have the scout squad model which I guess is essentially the same but with an 18" barrel.  As for the optic I don't think anyone mentioned a scout scope - which addresses the eye relief issue.

The way I look at with the M1A is that it's "off the radar" with the anti-2A crowd - doesn't even come up in the "assault rifle" conversation.

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 hours ago, silverado427 said:

If its your only fighting weapon then yes on the light. But if you have other options like a AR  Then my answer is lose it not every rifle needs a light. jmho

i only own a handful of guns.... pretty much all my long guns have weapon mounted lights.. 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

17 minutes ago, tomk62 said:

I have the scout squad model which I guess is essentially the same but with an 18" barrel.  As for the optic I don't think anyone mentioned a scout scope - which addresses the eye relief issue.

The way I look at with the M1A is that it's "off the radar" with the anti-2A crowd - doesn't even come up in the "assault rifle" conversation.

That’s the one I want.

[High Exposure 5,426]

3 hours ago, vladtepes said:

i only own a handful of guns.... pretty much all my long guns have weapon mounted lights.. 

Accessories in order of importance on a social- gun (long or handgun):
1) Holster/Sling
2) Light
3) Optic

[124gr9mm 757]

13 hours ago, raz-0 said:

The 308 will perform better from 200-300 yards even at the lower velocities. However, the projectiles tends to be designed for optimum performance somewhere between 2800-3000 FPS with adequate performance at around 2400fps, and basically bullet diameter expansion sub 2000fps. 
 

With the shorter barrel you are looking at peak velocity just over 2400fps. Velocity, drop, and bullet design leave you with a 0-300 yard usable range. Which a .223 gun will stay within the sweet spot of the projectile design 0-400, be much flatter shooting and easier to aim and hit with a dot out to 300 yards. And do it in a smaller, lighter, cheaper package with better mounting options, faster mag changes, higher capacities, and let you carry more ammo in less space. 
 

The socom looks cool, but practically it’s functional but sub optimal. 

Not sure you're giving a fair representation of .308 velocity.  Rifleshooter.com did a test several years ago where they shot rounds from a barrel that they incrementally chopped from 28" to 16.5" and recorded velocities. 
 

While the drop from 28" to 16.5" was significant, only the heaviest bullet (180 gr) dropped below 2400 fps.  I think "most" people use 147/150 grain bullets in their semi-auto's, so the results for those might be considered more typical.

Not sure that it would fall into your "sub optimal" category for OP's purposes.

 

308 Winchester Barrel length in inches versus Muzzle velocity in feet-per-second (ft/sec)   Rifleshooter.com
Barrel length	Winchester 147 FMJ	IMI Samson 7.62 150 FMJ	Federal 168 Gold Medal	Winchester 180 PP
28	2965	2823	2706	2632
27	2962	2800	2697	2607
26	2955	2801	2673	2597
25	2917	2769	2659	2585
24	2909	2766	2635	2553
23	2877	2744	2618	2553
22	2837	2718	2597	2527
21	2807	2683	2580	2507
20	2804	2679	2565	2478
19	2757	2634	2532	2441
18	2739	2595	2523	2411
17	2707	2577	2481	2401
16.5	2682	2561	2466	2373
AVG velocity loss fps/inch	24.6	22.8	20.9	22.5

 

Interesting read for anyone interested in this stuff:

https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Great discussion, thanks for the input.  I agree, the AR is king.  Like Glock, all new defensive rifles will be measured against it (talking about the AR).  I already have ARs, but no 308.

Is she perfect?  Nope.  She is heavy, takes longer to reload, costs more to shoot and is an older (outdated, some would say) design.  

But

She is reliable, hits hard, accurate at 200 yards offhand (furthest I can shoot on the farm), looks cool and makes me feel like Johnny Strong. 

 

[High Exposure 5,426]

You seen “Sinners and Saints” yet Ray?

Awesome movie with Johnny Strong and some pretty great gunfights.

I couldn’t get through “Daylight’s End”. Terrible movie. I turned it off about 3/4 the way through....

I did like that Yeager got popped early on though. 

[Zeke 5,504]

29 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

You seen “Sinners and Saints” yet Ray?

Awesome movie with Johnny Strong and some pretty great gunfights.

I couldn’t get through “Daylight’s End”. Terrible movie. I turned it off about 3/4 the way through....

I did like that Yeager got popped early on though. 

F Yeager! Looking for sinners and saints now! Thanks for da heads up

[Ray Ray 3,566]

52 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

You seen “Sinners and Saints” yet Ray?

Awesome movie with Johnny Strong and some pretty great gunfights.

I couldn’t get through “Daylight’s End”. Terrible movie. I turned it off about 3/4 the way through....

I did like that Yeager got popped early on though. 

Funny, I thought "Sinners and Saints" was okay, but "Daylights End" was good. 

Side discussion, the lead character used in "Daylights End" was supposed to mimic the Army sniper from "Blackhawk Down".  Also played by Johnny Strong.  Same gun and all.

[Golf battery 1,207]

Ive had one for about 4 or so years.   Hate shooting it for multiple rds.  The recoil on mine is horrible compared to a regular m1a.  Which i own a few.  That patented brake is not that good. One thumbs down.  Great idea.  But needs mods.  

[Ray Ray 3,566]

31 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Hate shooting it for multiple rds.  The recoil on mine is horrible compared to a regular m1a.  Which i own a few.  That patented brake is not that good. One thumbs down.  Great idea.  But needs mods.  

The longer M1As are friggen heavy.   Like too heavy.  I agree the recoil is definitely a factor but in reality how many rounds do you plan on continuing to shoot?  

[Golf battery 1,207]

As per an ar15.   Shoot all day.  100-300 rds.   Youll see.  It’s uncomfortable.  Just sayin.  Youll see.  Big difference. I still love the gun. Its awesome.   But for me.  Not fun after 30 or so rds. Please report back and tell me its just me. 
be well. 
i took it for the hog hunt rosie has    It was perfect for that.  Hard hitting.  Compact.  One head shot it was down.  Lead nose bullet.  

[Ray Ray 3,566]

15 hours ago, Golf battery said:

As per an ar15.   Shoot all day.  100-300 rds.   Youll see.  It’s uncomfortable.  Just sayin.  Youll see.  Big difference. I still love the gun. Its awesome.   But for me.  Not fun after 30 or so rds. Please report back and tell me its just me. 
be well. 
i took it for the hog hunt rosie has    It was perfect for that.  Hard hitting.  Compact.  One head shot it was down.  Lead nose bullet.  

The range sessions have been about 200 rounds a piece, and she probably has 700ish rounds in her as of now.  Some German surplus, some steel-cased wolf, some ZQI and she is currently running MEN (German military M80 ball).  The only bench rest shooting I do is to sight in the rifle.  I like to move around a bit and have fun.  Is the AR king?  Yup.  

[Zeke 5,504]

I want one because they are cool as shit! But pricey

[Ray Ray 3,566]

32 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I want one because they are cool as shit! But pricey

The price kept me away for years, thank God for my better half.

[Golf battery 1,207]

I was lucky.  Tanners had a a used socom 16.  Couldn’t of had more than 50 rds down it.  You can tell by the wear on the bolt slide.  I got it for i think 1k.  The sights were soo off. Shooting like 10” high i think.  I brought it back.  They sent it back to Springfield.   It had the wrong front sight post on it.  They put the right one on it.  No charge.  That’s probably why the prior owner sold it.  Yes. Its a solid machine. Thats how i wound up with it.  I have 3 m1as.  Love them all

[Ray Ray 3,566]

3 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

I was lucky.  Tanners had a a used socom 16.  Couldn’t of had more than 50 rds down it.  You can tell by the wear on the bolt slide.  I got it for i think 1k.  The sights were soo off. Shooting like 10” high i think.  I brought it back.  They sent it back to Springfield.   It had the wrong front sight post on it.  They put the right one on it.  No charge.  That’s probably why the prior owner sold it.  Yes. Its a solid machine. Thats how i wound up with it.  I have 3 m1as.  Love them all

You should post some pictures here, since you love them so much.

[Golf battery 1,207]

That’s another topic.  The site says im past my capacity for photos.  Ill be with maks this weekend. Ill ask him how to change that.  I have a loaded that was worked on by carl. New harmonic guide rod and hooded sight.  Carl is probably the most well known guy to do m1a work in the us.  And hes only 5 miles from me. I also have a   I forget the name. A high end bedded loaded m1a with optics.  The loaded that carl worked on is probably 1/2 moa.  Ive shot it at the frozen nuts match with factory m1a ammo.  Its awesome 

[Screwball 483]

I considered a .308 AR pistol as another truck gun, but figured going down to a 12.5” barrel wouldn’t be as beneficial as a .308 with a 16+” barrel. Only plus would have been “firearm” territory, so could toss a vertical grip on. But then I’m going into a platform I don’t have any gear for (no .308 AR magazines)... so have to buy more stuff to run the gun.

So, my final choice was an AK pistol... for when a .223 isn’t enough (likely not too common), 7.62x39mm will work. I have a WASR already, so magazines and other gear will work between the two guns. But to be fair, it definitely was a s***s and giggles purchase (who doesn’t want a Krinkov clone?).

I’ve fired the 16” M1As (one with that quad rail... which I hated; and then one without), and personally prefer the 22” model... which is what I own. If I am at the shorter barrel length, rather a pistol grip than a traditional rifle stock. Have never seen an M1A chassis that does a pistol grip right, without weighing a ton. Is the 22” M1A a gun I’m firing from my truck? Probably not... but if I’d have to, I’d figure it out. The 16” ones likely would fit that role a lot better.

[Frank Rizzo 57]

I luv the SOCOM16, if and when the right deal comes up im grabbing one. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

2 hours ago, Screwball said:

I considered a .308 AR pistol as another truck gun, but figured going down to a 12.5” barrel wouldn’t be as beneficial as a .308 with a 16+” barrel.

Like @raz-0 says, there are better options.  In a "pistol" version, a 308 doesn't make sense.  But then again, neither does 556 or 762x39mm.  

[carl_g 568]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Like @raz-0 says, there are better options.  In a "pistol" version, a 308 doesn't make sense.  But then again, neither does 556 or 762x39mm.  

not like a pistol pistol.. more like  "pistol" with a brace. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

52 minutes ago, carl_g said:

not like a pistol pistol.. more like  "pistol" with a brace. 

Talking about barrel length vs energy trade off.

[Screwball 483]

2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Like @raz-0 says, there are better options.  In a "pistol" version, a 308 doesn't make sense.  But then again, neither does 556 or 762x39mm.  

May not make sense to you... an 11.5” 5.56mm AR makes sense for my needs, and quite a few others. At least eight or so people in my port are running something similar as a truck gun (while there is local, county, and state presence in our town, CBP and BP outnumber them all together; if something goes down, we likely will be responding whether on or off duty).

A 10.5” Krinkov clone makes enough sense that they are regularly out of stock on PSA. And when they come back in stock, they are out of stock within a day or two. That being said, I’ll be happy when that pistol comes home because it is a neat little package, just like those who like the AKS74U (I’m not a 5.45mm guy)... and that is good enough for me. 

Ballistically, a 12.5’ .308 isn’t doing much more than a similarly short 7.62x39mm... which is why I didn’t put my money there. Not going to lie, was definitely close... until I started browsing PSA’s website and seeing reviews. Punching .30 holes in a target might be fun... but it can be done cheaper and easier with an AK platform. Not as heavy of a weapon system, and aftermarket is huge.

16” .308s might be out there, but how popular are they? And what is the trade off? Most people opt for 18”... but neither are really giving me something over my 11.5” AR when you consider portability and firepower. Hornady CD 73 grain ammo will do the job across a Walmart, which is pretty much all I really could ask it to do. If it doesn’t, I have M855 in magazines on my plate carrier, as well.

That being said, no issue with your choice. If I were still in NJ, a 16” M1A would definitely be a consideration... since I already have a M1A. Besides... it’s your money; but what spins your wheels.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

 If it doesn’t, I have M855 in magazines on my plate carrier, as well.

This is one thing you got wrong.   M855 is probably the worst round for defensive use.  

[Screwball 483]

2 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

This is one thing you got wrong.   M855 is probably the worst round for defensive use.  

Define worst?

Because if I keep it in there to punch through things that the other load won’t... I think it is a good option.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

25 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Define worst?

Because if I keep it in there to punch through things that the other load won’t... I think it is a good option.

Because it does just what you said, punches through stuff and goes and goes.  It doesn't yaw when it hits tissue.  It makes 22 caliber holes in people and that's it.  You're other choice was better, the Hornady stuff.  Or 77 grain razor core.   Even M193 is better. 

[Screwball 483]

37 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Because it does just what you said, punches through stuff and goes and goes.  It doesn't yaw when it hits tissue.  It makes 22 caliber holes in people and that's it.  You're other choice was better, the Hornady stuff.  Or 77 grain razor core.   Even M193 is better. 

Maybe you aren’t following me... I want it to punch through stuff. That is the whole point of having the M855 available. Level IIIA armor, possibly Level III armor, glass windshields, etc. I have four magazines on my carrier; two with red bands (.223 labeled), two with green (5.56mm labeled). My pistol is loaded with a red banded 20 rounder.

Red marked magazines are Hornady CD. Green marked magazines are M855.