silverado427 10,552 Posted March 3, 2021 Hello Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 3, 2021 On 7/16/2020 at 2:36 PM, JackDaWack said: Where else would your spare mags be? It's just a matter how how you train for a threat. I can put my plate carrier on faster than shoes... my spare mags are on the same belt that my holster is on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0Jeep4 87 Posted March 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, silverado427 said: Well I finally got a plate carrier, I went for the Shellback Sheild plate carrier . I didn't get plates yet. So I would be looking for some recommendations . Hesco 4800 if you got the money. Buy once cry once as they say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, 0Jeep4 said: Hesco 4800 if you got the money. Buy once cry once as they say. You only live once, seems more appropriate here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said: You only live once, seems more appropriate here. You only die once. Choose wisely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted March 3, 2021 If I was a door kicker then Hesco would be on my list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0Jeep4 87 Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, silverado427 said: If I was a door kicker then Hesco would be on my list. The way I look at it, is most people own AKs or higher power hunting rifles. You also don’t want your kit to be heavy. Unless your the type thats training with a 50pound vest on and can handle the extra pounds especially trying to stay mobile, which would be ideal in any situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 3, 2021 When buying hard armor there are three important characteristics: 1) Affordable 2) Effective 3) Light weight You can pick 2. Do a “threat assessment” for your area and determine what you feel the most common round you may face. If you can’t decide, the rule of thumb is to make sure your armor can stop the rounds you carry. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, 1LtCAP said: my spare mags are on the same belt that my holster is on. If it took the same time to put your belt on as a plate carrier, which would you chose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, JackDaWack said: If it took the same time to put your belt on as a plate carrier, which would you chose? then the obvious choice would be a plate carrier. but i don't think i can put my plate carrier on in 3 seconds...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted March 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said: then the obvious choice would be a plate carrier. but i don't think i can put my plate carrier on in 3 seconds...... A plate carrier drops over your head and velcros around the sides. I can get mine on in about 5 seconds without rushing and fumbling. To me, messing with a belt seems like more work. With practice I think the time to get either on is negligible. E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 3, 2021 Attach a holster to your PC via GCode or Safariland MOLLE/PALS adapter. If you are going to take the time to put something on, it may as well give you protection and a place to store your pistol in the event you need to use your hands. US Palm used to make a great BITN rig that had a holster and mag pouches sewn right in to the PC. Not sure if they are even around anymore.... And with a little practice (and gear staging) you can put a PC on in less time than it takes to put on your slippers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted March 3, 2021 6 hours ago, JackDaWack said: A plate carrier drops over your head and velcros around the sides. I can get mine on in about 5 seconds without rushing and fumbling. To me, messing with a belt seems like more work. With practice I think the time to get either on is negligible. E I'm in pretty good shape for a boomer, I workout 3-4 days a week and jump rope like a person half my age. The velcro on the molle flap that covers the cumberbund velcro is like pulling apart duct tape that is stuck to its self. I'm sure it will ease up when it breaks in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 4, 2021 Leave the c-bund a little loose and you can slide into it like a tshirt. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 4, 2021 5 hours ago, JackDaWack said: A plate carrier drops over your head and velcros around the sides. I can get mine on in about 5 seconds without rushing and fumbling. To me, messing with a belt seems like more work. With practice I think the time to get either on is negligible. E i've tried. i just can't get into mine that fast....the belt is basically, slap it around my waist, single click and i'm ready to roll...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted March 4, 2021 11 hours ago, 1LtCAP said: i've tried. i just can't get into mine that fast....the belt is basically, slap it around my waist, single click and i'm ready to roll...... Gotta go with what works for you. 14 hours ago, silverado427 said: I'm in pretty good shape for a boomer, I workout 3-4 days a week and jump rope like a person half my age. The velcro on the molle flap that covers the cumberbund velcro is like pulling apart duct tape that is stuck to its self. I'm sure it will ease up when it breaks in. I know exactly what you mean. And it doesn't really ease up over time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted March 7, 2021 hello Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, silverado427 said: Looks like i'm going to carrying some weight. What do the plates weigh? The backpack blowers we use at work weigh about 27# and they are manageable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 6:28 PM, silverado427 said: The velcro on the molle flap that covers the cumberbund velcro is like pulling apart duct tape that is stuck to its self. If you take the vest off, and it's a little troublesome, it means you are alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 4:15 PM, High Exposure said: US Palm used to make a great BITN rig that had a holster and mag pouches sewn right in to the PC. Not sure if they are even around anymore.... Unfortunately not - US Palm scaled back to just their AK Mags/Grips. I believe they were purchased by Century Arms or their parent company. 54 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: What do the plates weigh? The backpack blowers we use at work weigh about 27# and they are manageable. Varies but about 7-8 lbs each plate. My Hesco 4400's are 7.6lbs each. so 15.2 lbs of plates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: so 15.2 lbs of plates. Shit, I could run around all day with that on my back. Okay maybe not run, but that's not bad at all. I guess if you start throwing stuff like ammo and whatever on top of it, it could add up, but like I said, during the fall I have a 27# backpack on me for like three to four hours at a time, and that's not just standing around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted March 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: Shit, I could run around all day with that on my back. Okay maybe not run, but that's not bad at all. I guess if you start throwing stuff like ammo and whatever on top of it, it could add up, but like I said, during the fall I have a 27# backpack on me for like three to four hours at a time, and that's not just standing around. How's the balance on that though? May be different (more front heavy) compared to back heavy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,119 Posted March 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: How's the balance on that though? It's a back pack so, mostly on the back. Because it is a backpack, we are leaning forward for balance all the time. That puts stress on the lower back. I'm thinking evenly distributed will relieve that, but put more weight up front. Dunno how that will work out. I think an even load distribution is overall better for balance, It's terrifying being up on a roof with a backpack blower, but could have an unknown consequence with some of the weight being distributed to other muscles and joints. I'm guessing though, that no matter where the weight is distributed, it is still hell on the shoulders unless there is a chest and waist strap to bear some of the weight on the torso. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted March 21, 2021 hello Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 21, 2021 so......does soft armor really expire? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted March 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said: so......does soft armor really expire? the ceramic/ hybrid has a shelf life Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, silverado427 said: the ceramic/ hybrid has a shelf life i've got a set of level4 ceramic....at least 6 years old. this means that they can't be trusted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 21, 2021 12 hours ago, 1LtCAP said: so......does soft armor really expire? Yes, but the rate varies greatly on a lot of different factors. Moisture is the enemy here. It breaks down the ability of the fibers in soft armor to not stretch without breaking - which is what allows the armor to catch the bullet. Depending on what kind of material your vest is made of (you want 100% aramid fibers for best effectiveness and longevity, but it may not be the most comfortable armor) they break down at different rates. What your armor is wrapped in also plays a role here - it should be wrapped in a breathable membrane that keeps water out, but lets humidity escape. The operating and storage environment you live/work in, as well as how often you actually wear it, and how much moisture your body puts out while wearing it is a big factor to longevity. Concealed soft armor, that is worn daily by someone that sweats a lot and is subjected to humid weather and rain will break down a lot faster than plate backers on a PC that spends most of their time in the closet. US manufactures put a 5 year “life” on their armor while the same armor in Europe has a 10 year life. That is mostly because if it has a 5 year “life”, any agency that is responsible to supply armor to its employees will have to replace it every 5 years weather it is still effective armor or not - or face lawsuits for providing armor that is “expired” as per manufacturer specs, and therefore no longer effective. Basically, it’s cheaper to spend $700-$1000 on armor every 5 years than take a chance on a million dollar lawsuit. So, no, it’s not like it just stops working 5 years after your manufacture date, but at the same time, of you have 1 day old armor and fall in your pool, it’s trash. Just know that as some point, your soft armor will be less effective than you would probably like. How much time after the armor is manufactured and purchased that happens is anyone’s guess. 12 hours ago, silverado427 said: the ceramic/ hybrid has a shelf life Ceramic armor should be X-Rayed yearly to look for cracks, chips, etc... the plates could be damaged and you wouldn’t know. PE plates (polyethylene) can break down as well due to exposure to the environment (UV, humidity levels, high temps, etc...) but I don’t know the rates or really how to even check for that reduced ability beyond regular replacement to ensure desired effectiveness. I have a set of ceramic plates that are at least 12 years old. I had them x-rayed not too long ago and they are fine. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,258 Posted March 22, 2021 20 hours ago, High Exposure said: Yes, but the rate varies greatly on a lot of different factors. Moisture is the enemy here. It breaks down the ability of the fibers in soft armor to not stretch without breaking - which is what allows the armor to catch the bullet. Depending on what kind of material your vest is made of (you want 100% aramid fibers for best effectiveness and longevity, but it may not be the most comfortable armor) they break down at different rates. What your armor is wrapped in also plays a role here - it should be wrapped in a breathable membrane that keeps water out, but lets humidity escape. The operating and storage environment you live/work in, as well as how often you actually wear it, and how much moisture your body puts out while wearing it is a big factor to longevity. Concealed soft armor, that is worn daily by someone that sweats a lot and is subjected to humid weather and rain will break down a lot faster than plate backers on a PC that spends most of their time in the closet. US manufactures put a 5 year “life” on their armor while the same armor in Europe has a 10 year life. That is mostly because if it has a 5 year “life”, any agency that is responsible to supply armor to its employees will have to replace it every 5 years weather it is still effective armor or not - or face lawsuits for providing armor that is “expired” as per manufacturer specs, and therefore no longer effective. Basically, it’s cheaper to spend $700-$1000 on armor every 5 years than take a chance on a million dollar lawsuit. So, no, it’s not like it just stops working 5 years after your manufacture date, but at the same time, of you have 1 day old armor and fall in your pool, it’s trash. Just know that as some point, your soft armor will be less effective than you would probably like. How much time after the armor is manufactured and purchased that happens is anyone’s guess. Ceramic armor should be X-Rayed yearly to look for cracks, chips, etc... the plates could be damaged and you wouldn’t know. PE plates (polyethylene) can break down as well due to exposure to the environment (UV, humidity levels, high temps, etc...) but I don’t know the rates or really how to even check for that reduced ability beyond regular replacement to ensure desired effectiveness. I have a set of ceramic plates that are at least 12 years old. I had them x-rayed not too long ago and they are fine. thank you for taking the time to type out such a detailed explanation. that all makes a ton of sense! regarding eraying your ceramic.......for those who aren't leo......is there a safe way to get ceramic xrayed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted March 22, 2021 I have a buddy that is a nurse at a local hospital. I never really thought how else you would do it.... Kinda took it for granted.... Maybe a Radiology lab? Or a place that tests fire extinguishers/Scott Packs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites