AKM=Banned?

[Mitche06 0]

Hey all,

I'm looking to add a russian Akm to my collection only worrisome thing is that it says AKM on the receiver. 

Does the AKM on the receiver make it a banned firearm in NJ?

[oldguysrule649 380]

I don't know anything about AKm's so can't help you with your inquiry, but welcome to the forums.  Recommend you introduce yourself in the "Introductions" forum.

 

regards

[sgtdave4321 32]

Its possible.I think thats why WASR's, SAR-1's, Saigas' etc are ok.

[Mitche06 0]

yes I several non designated ak47 style rifles but none that say AKM on them

[leo-польд 34]

Even on Russian made Kalashnikov you will not see such names, they are cryptic and represented by numbers, this is article in Russian but you could see pictures there.

http://www.ak-info.ru/joomla/index.php/uses/12-spravka/94-akmarkings

[carl_g 568]

So if it is Russian and not a Saiga or VEPR it is most likely a parts kit built on a US receiver. Are you sure the receiver says AKM? I am not a lawyer and some will say its OK while other's will say it's not. You have to decide what you are comfortable with because to me in NJ...AK variants are a roll of the dice. You could argue the whole substantially identical verbiage and what "type" means but the statute clearly says: "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are banned. Good luck! I love my AK-103 clone.

[leo-польд 34]

5 hours ago, carl_g said:

So if it is Russian and not a Saiga or VEPR it is most likely a parts kit built on a US receiver. Are you sure the receiver says AKM? I am not a lawyer and some will say its OK while other's will say it's not. You have to decide what you are comfortable with because to me in NJ...AK variants are a roll of the dice. You could argue the whole substantially identical verbiage and what "type" means but the statute clearly says: "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are banned. Good luck! I love my AK-103 clone.

I never saw anything with such names on receiver and I use to serve Soviet Army long ago with AKM and many other AK style rifles. Vepr or Saiga is non-millitary firearms, banned for import but not for sale or owning in US. Personally I wouldn't build AK but just buy Wasr 10 and be happy, modify it as you like and legal in NJ.

[PK90 3,531]

All AK types are illegal in NJ. Always has been. The name means nothing. The NJSP has always looked the other way, except the one time with a dealer in Hamilton. 

[JT Custom Guns 949]

As per the NJSP - AK's in NJ are allowed as long as they do not say Kalasnikov on the frame!

Cannot be Russian (A. Kalasnikov) nor US Kalasnikov Concern, USA.

The fram can say "AK" on it - just not "Kalasnikov"

All other AK's are considered Sporting Rifles, and as long as they meet the NJ compliance regulations then they can be sold.........

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

On 4/2/2020 at 9:58 AM, JT Custom Guns said:

As per the NJSP - AK's in NJ are allowed as long as they do not say Kalasnikov on the frame!

Cannot be Russian (A. Kalasnikov) nor US Kalasnikov Concern, USA.

The fram can say "AK" on it - just not "Kalasnikov"

All other AK's are considered Sporting Rifles, and as long as they meet the NJ compliance regulations then they can be sold.........

 

this is in contrast to the literal writing of the AW ban... just saying.. 

as paul said.. they have been allowed.. but if you go by how its written.. none of them are legal.. because they are "AK Type" rifles.. 

[0Jeep4 87]

1 hour ago, vladtepes said:

this is in contrast to the literal writing of the AW ban... just saying.. 

as paul said.. they have been allowed.. but if you go by how its written.. none of them are legal.. because they are "AK Type" rifles.. 

Wasn’t some sort of opinion given so they didn’t have to justify the entire AW ban in court at one point? 

[JT Custom Guns 949]

This has been gone over more than once on this forum.

We have all our correspondence with the NJSP FIU & AG's office in writing and on file; we are very comfortable that all the rifles we sell are 100% NJ legal and complaint................

[vladtepes 1,060]

9 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

This has been gone over more than once on this forum.

We have all our correspondence with the NJSP FIU & AG's office in writing and on file; we are very comfortable that all the rifles we sell are 100% NJ legal and complaint................

Do you remember the auto ordnance m1 carbine? if so that is why I stand by the fact that the AK is technically banned in NJ.. can you sell them? are there countless already out there? are others selling them? sure... are they technically banned.. sure.. for the same reason the AO was a no go.. 

[JT Custom Guns 949]

33 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

Do you remember the auto ordnance m1 carbine? if so that is why I stand by the fact that the AK is technically banned in NJ.. can you sell them? are there countless already out there? are others selling them? sure... are they technically banned.. sure.. for the same reason the AO was a no go.. 

In my opinion, we are comparing Apples to Oranges

The M-1 Carbine is banned no matter what mfg. and has been since the start. So if it Says M1-Carbine or M1 and is a carbine it is banned. The statute does not call out the M1's by mfg - just ALL M1's are Banned.

The stature does not say all AK's are banned; it says A. Koashnikov Types - so here they are used a particular manufacturer

There is a Big difference.................

[carl_g 568]

9 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

This has been gone over more than once on this forum.

We have all our correspondence with the NJSP FIU & AG's office in writing and on file; we are very comfortable that all the rifles we sell are 100% NJ legal and complaint................

So every time the AG changes do you have to get a new note? I still think it’s sketchy strictly by the way the statute is written. Could you win in court... maybe.  A jury will convict you 9 out of 10 times just because AK’s are the poster child for “evil Rifles” It’s a risk IMO.

[JT Custom Guns 949]

3 minutes ago, carl_g said:

So every time the AG changes do you have to get a new note? I still think it’s sketchy strictly by the way the statute is written. Could you win in court... maybe.  A jury will convict you 9 out of 10 times just because AK’s are the poster child for “evil Rifles” It’s a risk IMO.

That would be you opinion, and you are entitled to it; but doesn't mean your right.

Would be hard to bring to court when the NJSP have audited books (3-4 times) showing them in/ out to NJ residents with no issues.............

[carl_g 568]

2 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

In my opinion, we are comparing Apples to Oranges

The M-1 Carbine is banned no matter what mfg. and has been since the start. So if it Says M1-Carbine or M1 and is a carbine it is banned. The statute does not call out the M1's by mfg - just ALL M1's are Banned.

The stature does not say all AK's are banned; it says A. Koashnikov Types - so here they are used a particular manufacturer

There is a Big difference.................

Not trying to be a pain in the ass but Kalashnikov is the gun designer’s last name and until a few years ago the was no company or brand with Kalashnikov in the name. The law say types. It refers to no other gun on the ban list like this.. it’s meant to be a broad  statement against all AK types of sporting rifles.

[JT Custom Guns 949]

3 minutes ago, carl_g said:

Not trying to be a pain in the ass but Kalashnikov is the gun designer’s last name and until a few years ago the was no company or brand with Kalashnikov in the name. The law say types. It refers to no other gun on the ban list like this.. it’s meant to be a broad  statement against all AK types of sporting rifles.

Not totally correct!

JSC Kalashnikov Concern - is the managing company over Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant which makes Kalashnakovs in Russia

 

[carl_g 568]

 

5 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

Not totally correct!

JSC Kalashnikov Concern - is the managing company over Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant which makes Kalashnakovs in Russia

 

Right! They took over in 2013 before that they were known as Izhesvsk Machine Building Plant. That’s my point. This law was written well before 2013.

[vladtepes 1,060]

27 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

In my opinion, we are comparing Apples to Oranges

The M-1 Carbine is banned no matter what mfg. and has been since the start. So if it Says M1-Carbine or M1 and is a carbine it is banned. The statute does not call out the M1's by mfg - just ALL M1's are Banned.

The stature does not say all AK's are banned; it says A. Koashnikov Types - so here they are used a particular manufacturer

There is a Big difference.................

It says M1 TYPE and it says AK TYPE... that is why the comparison is relevant.. 

It does NOT say the gun "Kalishnikov".. 

• "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms"
• "M1 carbine type"
• " PJK M-68 carbine type"

In practice.. of course you are right.. they have looked the other way.. and they have done so for so long that it would be unreasonable for them to roll it back.. I am simply providing information to the original poster as I believe it to be accurate.. 

despite the state having looked the other way... despite there being uncountable numbers of AKs in NJ.. despite many NJ gun dealers selling them.. the entire type is prohibited per the NJ assault weapons ban.. 

the check list is fairly straight forward.. 

the state says "these guns are all banned.. there is then a long list.. if the gun is named on that list then it is automatically banned.. there are a FEW guns that go beyond just naming a specific make and model.. like the AK.... they flat out say ALL AK TYPES.. so the only question you can ask yourself is this.. is a Saiga.. is a WASR and AK type? or course it is.. so it is banned... 

will you get arrested? will gun shops be shut down? NO.. because the state has opted to not enforce.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

36 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

In my opinion, we are comparing Apples to Oranges

The M-1 Carbine is banned no matter what mfg. and has been since the start. So if it Says M1-Carbine or M1 and is a carbine it is banned. The statute does not call out the M1's by mfg - just ALL M1's are Banned.

The stature does not say all AK's are banned; it says A. Koashnikov Types - so here they are used a particular manufacturer

There is a Big difference.................

to play devils advocate.. how did you come to this conclusion when the wording is literally identical for each of those guns.. 

"Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms"

"M1 carbine type"

What was it there that told you they are to be interpreted differently? They are both broadly describing an entire range of firearms that are considered a type of firearm.. 

[n4p226r 105]

On 4/6/2020 at 4:14 PM, vladtepes said:

to play devils advocate.. how did you come to this conclusion when the wording is literally identical for each of those guns.. 

"Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms"

"M1 carbine type"

What was it there that told you they are to be interpreted differently? They are both broadly describing an entire range of firearms that are considered a type of firearm.. 

bumping an old thread but one could argue there is a big difference as well.  

an Avtomat Kalashnikov type could be argued to be a rifle designed with a double stack magazine, pistol grip, solid or folding stock, threaded barrel, etc.  Once you remove those, you are no longer that "type".  you are a neutered version of that. 

the m1 carbine on the other hand, has none of those features.  so how do you neuter or change that into a different type?  plus you have to take into account the reason the m1 carbine type is banned specifically when so many other similarly featured rifles are not.   for that answer you have to go down the list a little more and you see Plainfield Machine Company Carbine.  Which we know from history, is famous for making guns that were stolen during the Plainfield riots.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Plainfield_riots

 

so the real reason the m1 carbine and Plainfield machine company carbine is banned specifically, is because gun control has racist roots

[JT Custom Guns 949]

M1 Carbine is banned by Name, so if it says M1 on the frame and it's a carbine rifle there is no way around it in NJ

AK , is "Avtomat Kalashnikov type" and the NJSP turn a blind eye to any variants except if it has the name "Kalashnikov" on the frame

loophole, but AK's are legal to sell in NJ - For now!