Where's All That Ammo Going?

[45Doll 5,873]

I came across this data study from Ammo.com this morning. They published consumption figures by state up through March 27.

Texas gets the first place award.

BTW, in 9mm still only Gold Dot and Federal HST in stock at TargetSportsUSA, and at the usual prices.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Delaware?  There are more people in Hudson County than in Delaware.  Maybe shotgun Joe has them goin nuts.

[Greenday 323]

Somehow I'm not surprised Texas is #1, but it's interesting to see how across the board, everyone had the same idea to rush for ammo.

[GRIZ 3,369]

7 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Somehow I'm not surprised Texas is #1, but it's interesting to see how across the board, everyone had the same idea to rush for ammo.

When one gets older and wiser they plan for contingencies.

[WP22 1,558]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

When one gets older and wiser they plan for contingencies.

Or when one learns the lessons from the past.

[father-of-three 243]

History /ammo purchases repeats itself.

I dont shoot much .22 (actually none this year sofar!) but I bought 100 rounds in February for kicks.  

And now the shelves are bare....

[Greenday 323]

3 hours ago, father-of-three said:

History /ammo purchases repeats itself.

I dont shoot much .22 (actually none this year sofar!) but I bought 100 rounds in February for kicks.  

And now the shelves are bare....

I think I still have around 6k rounds of CCI minimags.

[oldguysrule649 397]

MidwayUSA has several brands(Federal, Aquila) of 556 in stock as of 15 minutes ago. 
Just successfully placed an order. Act fast before it is gone. 
 

[silverado427 10,679]

Seems like . 223/5.56  prices have  increased like $75.00 a case 

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

45Doll opened a legitimate topic in the Ammo & Reloading forum... and somehow it veered into politics, conspiracies and snarky insults. I really hate to move a thread to the 1A Lounge - esp'ly when it's a perfectly legitimate topic placed in the appropriate forum. Let's get this thread back on-topic, please! Thanks, all.

[Sota 1,191]

split it.

[45Doll 5,873]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

45Doll opened a legitimate topic in the Ammo & Reloading forum... and somehow it veered into politics, conspiracies and snarky insults. I really hate to move a thread to the 1A Lounge - esp'ly when it's a perfectly legitimate topic placed in the appropriate forum. Let's get this thread back on-topic, please! Thanks, all.

?

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

4 minutes ago, Sota said:

split it.

Yeah, I considered that. Let's see how it goes. It's not like the comments hidden were so rich in value...lol. thx!

[AVB-AMG 530]

I have been looking to purchase some appropriate home defense ammunition for a home defense shotgun.  I am interested in getting some Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buckshot, 2-3/4" (#86240), for a 12 gauge shotgun.

I tried to find a retailer, first in NJ, then nationally, who had this specific ammo in stock.   Nobody did.  Checking the websites of over 30+ retailers around the country, everyone was sold out with no idea of a time frame for getting it back in stock.  A number of Canadian retailers have it, but do not ship to the U.S.  One retailer in Georgia told me over the phone that they had a run on all of there ammo just prior to having to close down due to their State’s mandate.  Apparently, T.P. Is not the only item that was in high demand back in early to mid-March.  All in all, this was a frustrating, as well as illuminating and educational quest.

Ultimately, I found some of these shot shells for sale, via an auction on GunBroker.com.  I was the successful bidder.  While I paid almost double what the MSRP is for each box of 10 shells, at least I will get what I want and not have to wait the 2-3 months that it will probably take for most retailers to get it back in stock from Hornady and it’s distributors.  Also, once it is available again, I would not be surprised if there is a significant price increase.  IMHO, the recent days and period of plentiful and inexpensive ammo are definitely behind us for the foreseeable future...

AVB-AMG

[Ray Ray 3,566]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:55 AM, AVB-AMG said:

 I am interested in getting some Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buckshot, 2-3/4" (#86240), for a 12 gauge shotgun.

This ammo, and the Federal Flight Control stuff, is the best on the market.   Good, tight patterns.  I have tried them all in 00 Buck, you have choosen wisely.

[oldguysrule649 397]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:55 AM, AVB-AMG said:

I have been looking to purchase some appropriate home defense ammunition for a home defense shotgun.  I am interested in getting some Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buckshot, 2-3/4" (#86240), for a 12 gauge shotgun.

Am curious whether you also considered  #4 Buck As an option  to reduce the risk of over penetration?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 minute ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Am curious whether you also considered  #4 Buck As an option  to reduce the risk of over penetration?

00 Buck doesn't overpenetrate.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

00 Buck doesn't overpenetrate.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

 

Quote

00 Buck penetrates 4 walls with ease. It is a great “Stopping” round, but there is a price to pay. Until someone invents a “Phaser” like on Star Trek, anything that will stop a bad guy, will also penetrate several walls

 

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/

[ChrisJM981 924]

Ammo never goes bad, therefore some people that can afford to put some away for a rainy day, do. 

@AVB-AMG I'm not sure when you got into shooting, but ammo shortages and supply/demand price increases usually occur around mass shootings & elections. After Obama won the election in 2008 5.56mm was about $0.60 a round if you could find it. It should be about $0.30 a round. Same situation after Newtown. CT. Both happened due to a Chicago politician holding 1600 Penn Ave. 

I guess we can add black swan events to the list of times to hoard. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

 

 

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/

Two things to note.   One, I can punch a hole through sheetrock. It doesn't stop ANYTHING.  Two, if the rounds are stopped by the 12 inch gel, I don't want it.  Gel, although has benefits, doesn't make it human.  It has no bones, no liquids, no fat, no cartilage.   I want a round that will break through that.   Thanks, but 00 buck does this and does it well.

[JimB1 554]

More info on the topic of birdshot for home defense. I'm using handguns for home defense so no dog in this fight

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Two things to note.   One, I can punch a hole through sheetrock. It doesn't stop ANYTHING.  Two, if the rounds are stopped by the 12 inch gel, I don't want it.  Gel, although has benefits, doesn't make it human.  It has no bones, no liquids, no fat, no cartilage.   I want a round that will break through that.   Thanks, but 00 buck does this and does it well.

Ray, the Fed Flight Control and Hornady rounds that you like so much (as do I) stops in gel without penetrating all the way through - passing all the way through is a fail according to test protocols.

Keep in mind, 12” of penetration is a barely passing score - the block itself is 16” long, 6” wide and 7” high - if it’s a true 10% Calibrated Ballistic Gel testing process. 14”-16” is the ‘sweet spot’ for distance, but temporary and permanent wound cavity and well as retained mass and measured expansion also play factors into scoring the rounds.

The Calibrated Ballistic Gel does not truly represent a human body or flesh. It’s a measuring tool to determine its ballistic capacity. You can infer, that if it penetrates a certain distance but does not exit the block, the there is enough energy to reach vital organs in a human, but not so much that it will consistently pass completely through. Not many people have their organs under 14”-16” of flesh. Again, it’s just measuring potential penetration in a body reflective of the energy a projectile has, not a true prediction of How the round will react upon striking flesh.

Passing all the way through is undesirable for more than the obvious reason of endangering life and property beyond your threat. If the rounds are stopped within the body, all of the energy is transferred to your target. If the rounds pass through, You are only transferring a fraction of the available energy to your target, making the round less effective.

Also, any tests completed in that clear gel is suspect as it is not true 10% ballistic gelatin and has different characteristics.

[W2MC 1,699]

This reminds me of an interesting conversation I had with (I think) @vladtepes a couple years ago concerning penetration of .223 versus 12 gauge buckshot, and which was "safer" for home defense.

Contrary to my thinking, it seems the .223 went thru fewer sheetrock walls than the 00 Buck.

Surprised me....

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Professionals with disagree with me, but there is a reason for that...

You want a nice open pattern of 00 buck for HD at about 20 yards.. not 40 yards. Those flight control shells give you about an extra 20 yards of effective pattern spread, that's great for hunting, or someone who is really good with a shotgun in CQB to put a massive hole in targets..

Standard 00 buck at 10 yards is highly effective for the average shooter.  

 

Most HD situations... I bet that flight control hull has barely let go of the BB's, if at all,  in the distance most targets are.

 

On paper they look great, but for practicality of use... who needs that tight of a pattern beyond 20 yards in a house? I don't.. 

 

I bought a few of the high power 175 round cans  XM12700AC from federal for like 100 bucks a pop

[Shocker 150]

Echoing @High Exposure Ballistic gel is a test and nothing more and the standards are as much politics as science. The army doesn’t even use 10% gel at all. 
 

Shooting someone bladed away from you? You have to perforate arm muscle and a few bones before anything vital so 10” is not enough. Shoot someone in the head or neck? 10” Is probably  too much and you’re hitting the neighbors. 
 

but if everyone standardizes on the FBI requirements at least you can make comparisons 

[High Exposure 5,661]

You are accountable for every pellet that leaves your muzzle. You want to make sure that all of those pellets hit their target and reduce your chance of any flyer. If those rounds are still in the wad when it hits, and it acts like a slug, I’ll take that all day over a flyer over my targets shoulder that hits an unintended target.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Professionals with disagree with me, but there is a reason for that...

You want a nice open pattern of 00 buck for HD at about 20 yards.. not 40 yards. Those flight control shells give you about an extra 20 yards of effective pattern spread, that's great for hunting, or someone who is really good with a shotgun in CQB to put a massive hole in targets..

Standard 00 buck at 10 yards is highly effective for the average shooter.  

 

Most HD situations... I bet that flight control hull has barely let go of the BB's, if at all,  in the distance most targets are.

 

On paper they look great, but for practicality of use... who needs that tight of a pattern beyond 20 yards in a house? I don't.. 

 

I bought a few of the high power 175 round cans  XM12700AC from federal for like 100 bucks a pop

Basically true.

Even crappy Rio 00 buck or Wolf 00 buck will be effective inside a home. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

2 hours ago, W2MC said:

This reminds me of an interesting conversation I had with (I think) @vladtepes a couple years ago concerning penetration of .223 versus 12 gauge buckshot, and which was "safer" for home defense.

Contrary to my thinking, it seems the .223 went thru fewer sheetrock walls than the 00 Buck.

Surprised me....

 

I have the FBI and the DEA papers where it explains everything.

.223 rounds have less energy, and lose energy faster, after passing through drywall and other common construction materials in the US than duty rated shotgun or handgun rounds.

[High Exposure 5,661]

See this thread:

 

[Zeke 5,504]

@AVB-AMG my shotgun with 00 is my last go to. My pistol gets me to my rifle.