Dahoff85 0 Posted April 2, 2020 Good morning all, I’m hoping you can help me understand a situation I currently am stuck in. I live in NJ and I legally purchased my hand gun in NJ. For about 6 months I temporarily worked in Ohio and temp lived out there (but always kept NJ as my permanent address). While out there I made a friend who worked on guns in his spare time. He told me to bring him my gun and he would do some of the work I had been wanting to do, so I did. On one of my trips back to NJ I found out I would not be returning to OH but he still had my gun. He then shipped me back my gun since I didn’t feel like driving all the way back out there just to get it. The gun is now at my local shop and the owner is telling me I need to get a new permit for him to give me my gun back (that I already own and have a permit for). He says it’s because he can’t hand out a gun shipped to him that he didn’t ship out in the first place. Is this the case? I’m just confused why my permit I already have isn’t enough to get my gun back. Thanks for your help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 859 Posted April 3, 2020 Sounds absurd, but in NJ anything is possible. From the NJ FFL perspective he can't just deliver pistols to people without a purchase permit. Same as if I ordered a pistol from Bud's or another online site and had it sent to my FFL, I'd have to have a purchase permit to take possession. My FFL would have to log everything in his book so it would be legit when the ATF checked it. In this case the pistol is already yours, but I don't know if there's an accommodation for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shepherd9 215 Posted April 3, 2020 When states make ridiculous laws like NJ, decent people find themselves in the gray areas. Sure, if you drove up to Ohio you could legally travel back with it to NJ, no permit needed. Since it has been shipped..... I have no idea. It is very strange that you would need a "permit to purchase" a handgun you already own, but again, ....Jersey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,873 Posted April 3, 2020 Did you show the FFL the executed purchase permit for your pistol and that the serial number matches? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted April 3, 2020 I'm not sure of the exact details as they pertain to this situation, but its probably kind of intertwined with: If you take a handgun to an FFL to do do a personal transfer the way the nj law is now, and the buyer comes back No Go from NICS, The FFL cannot give you your own gun back without a purchase permit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dilbert1967 145 Posted April 3, 2020 If he did go ahead with a new Permit to Purchase to get his legally owned handgun, what are the ramifications to having two Permits to Purchase with identical information on them? One to purchase the handgun and one to take possession of it (again). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted April 3, 2020 why was this even shipped to an FFL to begin with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drjjpdc 39 Posted April 3, 2020 Sounds like you need to call Evan Nappen the gun lawyer and tell him about your situation. He's in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted April 3, 2020 If there was a mistake, it isn't the FFL here making it. So, normally for gunsmithing or repairs, you don't need a permit to get the gun back. Because you ship it to them, and they ship it back to you. BUT that requires that they be an FFL. In free america, a lot of gunsmiths aren't FFLs because you can jsut lend your gun to anyone provided it doesn't cross a state line and involve BATFE interstate transfer rules. So to return to you out of state, if he was not an FFL, he did the only thing he could. And you need a permit to get it back. If he had the FFL, he should have just shipped it to you. But he didn't, and you need a permit to get it back. Welcome to NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dahoff85 0 Posted April 3, 2020 Ok so a few things. I’m not in anyway mad or pissed about any of this. It seems like an easy fix of just getting a new permit. There is also no ill will towards my FFL as he is an awesome guy and I don’t think in anyway he’s trying to screw me, in fact I know he’s just not trying to screw himself by potentially doing something illegal and cost him his FFL or whatever would happen. This all was shipped perfectly legally so that was my confusion, to clarify (and make a long story short) I drove my gun out to Ohio while on business to leave with a friend who works on guns. I came back to NJ with full intentions of going back to Ohio to work and retrieve my gun. That didn’t happen. My friend who worked on the gun took it down to his local FFL and shipped it from there to my FFL. My FFL said that because I drive it out to Ohio and left it with someone and there was no paperwork involved that even though it was shipped to him legally by an FFL and I have a permit from when I originally bought the gun many years ago with all the correct matching info he can not relinquish it without a new permit as there is no proof of how it got to Ohio. I think it’s just a paperwork trail thing but I was unsure if the laws so I figured I would check in here to see what’s up. Thanks all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,873 Posted April 3, 2020 Call the firearms unit in Trenton and ask them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dahoff85 0 Posted April 3, 2020 My fear with calling and asking is if I did something illegal I don’t want to bring attention to myself. I just applied for the permit so it’s all on the up and up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bklynracer 1,263 Posted April 3, 2020 Not sure how this all works. Can't the FFL that has it ship it back to where it came from, give it back to the original person that shipped it and then he could go send pick it up in Ohio? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucin 923 Posted April 3, 2020 Here is what I would do but I am extremely stubborn. Like burn the house down to get rid of the termites stubborn. I would have my FFL ship it back to the gunsmith and drive back to Ohio to pick it up because there is no way I will ever give NJ another dime of my money regarding firearms. But that's just me. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dahoff85 0 Posted April 3, 2020 So my friend who worked on the gun doesn’t have an FFL but he shipped it through his local FFL so if my FFL shipped it back I doubt he would be able to pick my gun up from his FFL without any paperwork. Also I’d rather just wait and pay the couple bucks to not have to drive 7 hours back to Ohio ha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted April 4, 2020 6 hours ago, 45Doll said: Call the firearms unit in Trenton and ask them. Don't call NJSP in Trenton. You did an illegal interstate transfer when you left the gun with your friend. There is no reason to call the cops and give them evidence against yourself. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,873 Posted April 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: Don't call NJSP in Trenton. You did an illegal interstate transfer when you left the gun with your friend. There is no reason to call the cops and give them evidence against yourself. Yes, that's true. I wasn't envisioning the OP retelling the entire saga. Just ask the pertinent question. That's a question I'd like to know the answer to frankly. When a S&W pistol was shipped from my FFL to S&W for repair and later returned to my FFL, S&W had swapped the frame so the serial number changed. And then I needed another P2P to get it back from my FFL because it changed. Otherwise, I wouldn't. But never mind. The OP can go the new permit route. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites