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Saiga 12


Ended up chopping down my LAC rail was a little too long..

Magpul CTR Stock
Ace Folding Stock Adapter
Magpul Grip
Tapco G2
Arhipov's Lever
HK Sights (Tritium Inserts)
Russian Mags
Leykom Armory Customs VEPR Hand Guard (modified and chopped)
CSS Piston and regulator 
BCM Covers
Magpul Sling Mount
Magpul Sling
Surefire Scout Weapon Light
BoneSteel Firestorm (permanently attached)
Accuracy International Dark Earth Cerakote

S12-2-200403.png

S12-1-200403.png

S12-3-200403

 

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6 hours ago, fishnut said:

Is that the one that was stolen or something? 

yes it is.. sent it to a "smith" in Louisiana.. it was one of the ONLY times I ever sent my gun out for work.. turns out this guy had some hobbies.. and decided to pawn it for $200.... and then sold the pawn ticket to someone else.. that went and picked it up.. it was a real mess.. they didn't charge him because he ended up having a stroke shortly after he screwed me.. the detective said we can charge him.. but no judge will put him in jail.. he would be dead before the trial.. 

so they recovered the gun.. and shipped it back to me... I honestly never thought I would see it again.. 

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8 hours ago, vladtepes said:

yes it is.. sent it to a "smith" in Louisiana.. it was one of the ONLY times I ever sent my gun out for work.. turns out this guy had some hobbies.. and decided to pawn it for $200.... and then sold the pawn ticket to someone else.. that went and picked it up.. it was a real mess.. they didn't charge him because he ended up having a stroke shortly after he screwed me.. the detective said we can charge him.. but no judge will put him in jail.. he would be dead before the trial.. 

so they recovered the gun.. and shipped it back to me... I honestly never thought I would see it again.. 

Damn, I'm glad you got it back. That's a nightmare. 

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10 hours ago, vladtepes said:

yes it is.. sent it to a "smith" in Louisiana.. it was one of the ONLY times I ever sent my gun out for work.. turns out this guy had some hobbies.. and decided to pawn it for $200.... and then sold the pawn ticket to someone else.. that went and picked it up.. it was a real mess.. they didn't charge him because he ended up having a stroke shortly after he screwed me.. the detective said we can charge him.. but no judge will put him in jail.. he would be dead before the trial.. 

so they recovered the gun.. and shipped it back to me... I honestly never thought I would see it again.. 

Holy hell!!  I’m glad you got it back! Makes for a cool story in the aftermath though. 

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1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Kinda wish you got your money back on it now right?  Saiga 12 and reliable.  Two words NEVER said in the same sentence. 

While I've never owned one I have shot a bunch of them. Everyone I ever shot ran perfectly reliable with everything except for light target loads which it obviously was not designed for. I can not say the same for the jamomatic called mossberg 930. 

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3 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Kinda wish you got your money back on it now right?  Saiga 12 and reliable.  Two words NEVER said in the same sentence. 

There are some issues with these guns that have resulted in them having a bad reputation.. 

First.. the gun is not really designed for light bulk ammo.. its just not...

Second.. a lot of these guns shipped with questionable gas port work... some times the gas block covers or partially covers one of the ports... since they are designed to cycle heavier ammo... the defect is not caught in the factory.. gun is checked.. round is fired.. and the gun runs fine.. because they are firing a heavier round.. 

You can address both of these issues depending on how deep you want to dive.. if you primarily are going to shoot heavy ammo.. buckshot.. high brass..etc... you probably won't have any issues.. if you want to shoot light target ammo you may need to add an additional port or open up the existing ports.. and then get an adjustable plug to better control the gas..

I like the gun a lot.. primarily because its obnoxious.. mine is completely reliable with anything high brass and up.. so like 7.5 heavier loads.. buckshot.. slugs.. all no problem.. and well to be honest.. I don't really shoot light shotgun ammo so its a non-issue for me.. I like that its a 12 gauge shotgun that runs magazines and drums.. in an AK platform.. LOL and eventually I am going to get a stamp for it so I can remove the ridiculous muzzle device.. then I will have a 14in mag fed shotgun with a folding stock.... what's not to like.. 

most of the horror stories you hear are "I just got my Saiga 12 and am trying to run shitty aftermarket mags with cheap walmart bulk ammo and it won't run.. WTF" LOL 

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4 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

 I shouldn't have bashed a senior members firearm, for that I apologize.   But, they are unreliable. 

you are entitled to voice any opinion you have.. LOL it is just misguided.. 

as I stated.. most of the complaining stems from people that don't really have a proper understanding of the gun.. and that lack of understanding has created disappointment for them which then gets pushed out to the inter webs.. 

you can if you choose.. get these things to run any ammo.. there is a guy on the old S12 forum that built like an 7 or 8in S12 and that thing will rip through any ammo.. just depends on what you are looking to get out of it.. and the effort you are willing to put in.. 

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You made some interesting points, which probably explains a lot.  I personally have never seen one run reliably.   Steel matches, shotgun meet ups, range day.  Someone usually brings one and SPLAT. 

Now, if it ran reliably enough to cycle high brass then I can get behind it.  

My 930?  Runs like a champ @fishnut.  Which brings up an interesting topic.  Semi auto shotguns are unreliable across the board.  Kinda like 22 autos vs 22 revolvers.  Think of the pump shotgun as a 22 revolver.  Can't blame the gun when it's either the ammo or the trigger puller.  22 autos and 12 gauge autos?  Both are finicky. 

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10 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

You made some interesting points, which probably explains a lot.  I personally have never seen one run reliably.   Steel matches, shotgun meet ups, range day.  Someone usually brings one and SPLAT. 

Now, if it ran reliably enough to cycle high brass then I can get behind it.  

My 930?  Runs like a champ @fishnut.  Which brings up an interesting topic.  Semi auto shotguns are unreliable across the board.  Kinda like 22 autos vs 22 revolvers.  Think of the pump shotgun as a 22 revolver.  Can't blame the gun when it's either the ammo or the trigger puller.  22 autos and 12 gauge autos?  Both are finicky. 

 

my Beretta 1301 is one of the most reliable guns I have ever shot... that thing runs amazing... 

I had that video in mind when I read your post.. that is your typical S12.. "done up" on the outside... but probably unchecked gas ports.... probably light target loads.. 

in contrast.. this is a gun worked on by someone that knows what they are doing... even with the super short barrel.. the gun runs.. 
the gas system is the weak link and normally what requires a little attention.. 
 

 

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Would you consider either your 1301 or Saiga 12 for defensive use?  Although my 930 has been reliable, I would not consider her a defensive rifle.  Could my 930 do it?  Probably.  It runs high brass reliably.

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1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Would you consider either your 1301 or Saiga 12 for defensive use?  Although my 930 has been reliable, I would not consider her a defensive rifle.  Could my 930 do it?  Probably.  It runs high brass reliably.

there are very few instances I would use a shotgun as a defensive gun... I have a lot of really small high capacity weapons that I would take over a shotgun any day.. 

AR SBR 5.56
AK9 (6in barrel) 9mm
Scorpion Evo Micro 9mm

all with weapon lights and optics.. 30 round mags... you are talking a lot of gun.. and a lot of accuracy in a small lightweight platform.. I mean MAYBE in some post apocalyptic end of the world post government scenario... where law and order has been completely eroded away.. a S12 with a drum could be a good mob defense weapon as with the right ammo you could put a lot of pellets over a large area.. dissuading people from advancing.. but that would be a real specific instance.. the vast majority of time for a 2 legged threat I am going to want a bullet over any type of shot.. 

the 1301 I have a comp which is long so not ideal for any kind of interior stuff.. the 1301 tactical was a rock star.. that gun is literally the AR15 version of a shotgun.. 

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On 4/6/2020 at 10:23 PM, Ray Ray said:

You made some interesting points, which probably explains a lot.  I personally have never seen one run reliably.   Steel matches, shotgun meet ups, range day.  Someone usually brings one and SPLAT. 

Now, if it ran reliably enough to cycle high brass then I can get behind it.  

My 930?  Runs like a champ @fishnut.  Which brings up an interesting topic.  Semi auto shotguns are unreliable across the board.  Kinda like 22 autos vs 22 revolvers.  Think of the pump shotgun as a 22 revolver.  Can't blame the gun when it's either the ammo or the trigger puller.  22 autos and 12 gauge autos?  Both are finicky. 

My Benelli M1 Super 90 would run anything I put in it. No gas system to go wrong, see?

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22 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Would you consider either your 1301 or Saiga 12 for defensive use?  Although my 930 has been reliable, I would not consider her a defensive rifle.  Could my 930 do it?  Probably.  It runs high brass reliably.

So does it run reliably with target loads or just high brass/ buckshot. I seem to remember yours jaming at one of the shotgun shoots 

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28 minutes ago, fishnut said:

So does it run reliably with target loads or just high brass/ buckshot. I seem to remember yours jaming at one of the shotgun shoots 

That was just him missing :p

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5 hours ago, fishnut said:

So does it run reliably with target loads or just high brass/ buckshot. I seem to remember yours jaming at one of the shotgun shoots 

Someone had some super light loads designed for double guns, it wouldn't run in someone's Remington 1187 either.  The guy said it wouldn't work.  It didn't.  That has been the only ammo to kill it.  I don't remember what it was, nor was it something I can find at Walmart.   Remington gun club?  Works fine.  Winchester field loads?  Fine.  Federal?  Works.  Rio?  Runs.  

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18 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Someone had some super light loads designed for double guns, it wouldn't run in someone's Remington 1187 either.  The guy said it wouldn't work.  It didn't.  That has been the only ammo to kill it.  I don't remember what it was, nor was it something I can find at Walmart.   Remington gun club?  Works fine.  Winchester field loads?  Fine.  Federal?  Works.  Rio?  Runs.  

So what your saying is that your 930 is NOT 100% reliable because it won't cycle light loads..........exactly like a Saiga 12

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5 hours ago, fishnut said:

So what your saying is that your 930 is NOT 100% reliable because it won't cycle light loads..........exactly like a Saiga 12

No, I'm saying someone had some weird ammo that I never seen before and was told "it won't cycle in a 12 gauge semi auto".  And it didn't.  Not in anyone's 12 gauge semi auto.  

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2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

No, I'm saying someone had some weird ammo that I never seen before and was told "it won't cycle in a 12 gauge semi auto".  And it didn't.  Not in anyone's 12 gauge semi auto.  

anyway to find out what it was? I bet the 1301 will cycle it.. LOL

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2 hours ago, vladtepes said:

anyway to find out what it was? I bet the 1301 will cycle it.. LOL

It came in a fancy box, the owner was European or something.  He had an accent.  This was years ago.  It had like no recoil.

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My Benelli M1 Super90 tactical will run anything from very light to very heavy loads. I trust it.  I have also never had any issue with quality semi-auto hunting shotguns like my Beretta A390 Xtrema2 and Benelli M2.  They will cycle the lightest target loads and the heaviest turkey loads.

I can also say without a doubt that the M1S90 shoots way faster than a Saiga-12.

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On 4/10/2020 at 7:26 AM, JC_68Westy said:

I can also say without a doubt that the M1S90 shoots way faster than a Saiga-12.

maybe one full gun VS one full gun. as my 1301 is faster than my S12.. until you get to the reloading part.. there is a lot to be said about a mag fed shotgun... you are getting 8 more shells in the gun at a very rapid pace.. 

so if you want to say put 24 rounds down range.. the S12 is going to get it done faster just because of reload times.. 

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