Possession IN NJ Of Self Made Firearm

[fslater 62]

Its my understanding that in NJ you may not manufacture a firearm without license to do so, even for personal ownership. 

It was also my understanding that someone who legally manufactured a NJ legal firearm in another jurisdiction for their own nontransferable ownership and then brought that firearm into there NJ residence (serialized or not) was not in violation of any NJ laws.

In this video murphy states "anyone caught possessing a homemade or 3D printed firearm .......... will be prosecuted  to the fullest extent of the law, up to 5 years in prison"

I know (so called) 80% blanks and paraphernalia have been banned from sale and commercial shipment to NJ. Is murphy correct that the legislation he's gloating over here  makes what I said about bringing in a firearm you manufactured legally some where else illegal to possess in NJ or is he just injecting what he wants it to be into what it is?

 

[silverado427 10,675]

FPM

[YankeeSC 1,204]

I can't answer your question and I have no idea what "FPM" means, but I love how they always hide behind "make everyone safer".  How does this actually make anyone "safer", i.e. how many crimes are actually committed in NJ with homemade firearms?

[Tunaman 548]

I agree...FPM.    Federal law says we can make our own.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

I figured it out.

[Downtownv 1,773]

Pissing on a tree is "Illegal" in NJ.

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

17 hours ago, fslater said:

It was also my understanding that someone who legally manufactured a NJ legal firearm in another jurisdiction for their own nontransferable ownership and then brought that firearm into there NJ residence (serialized or not) was not in violation of any NJ laws.

That used to be true, but new ghost gun law was passed  11/2018 that makes it illegal to “purchase or otherwise obtain” any firearm without a serial # that traces back to a federally licensed manufacturer:

https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/S2500/2465_R3.HTM

”k.    Purchasing firearm parts to manufacture 1[untraceable] a1 firearm 1without a serialnumber1.  In addition to any other 1[penalty imposed] criminal penalties provided1 under1[current]1 law, a person who 1, with the purpose to manufacture 2or otherwise assemble2 a firearm and without being registered or licensed do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes,1 purchases 1or otherwise obtains1 separately or as 1part of1 a kit1a firearm frame or firearm receiver which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer”

 

[fslater 62]

25 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

That used to be true, but new ghost gun law was passed  11/2018 that makes it illegal to “purchase or otherwise obtain” any firearm without a serial # that traces back to a federally licensed manufacturer:

https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/S2500/2465_R3.HTM

”k.    Purchasing firearm parts to manufacture 1[untraceable] a1 firearm 1without a serialnumber1.  In addition to any other 1[penalty imposed] criminal penalties provided1 under1[current]1 law, a person who 1, with the purpose to manufacture 2or otherwise assemble2 a firearm and without being registered or licensed do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes,1 purchases 1or otherwise obtains1 separately or as 1part of1 a kit1a firearm frame or firearm receiver which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer”

 

This covers what I already know .........This is all about doing it IN Jersey

My question was, you have a home in or live in another state..... Then you move to jersey with the gun you made from parts in another state. Assuming the gun is NJ legal, is it legal to possess here (ie does not violate NJ AWB)?

chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes,1 purchases 1or otherwise obtains1 separately or as 1part of1 a kit1a firearm frame or firearm receiver which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer”

You've purchased,  obtained parts for, assembled in another state, then moved or brought it to your Jersey residence.

In a nut shell I'm asking if it's already yours and finished in another state, I don't see anything in the statute that stops you from bringing it to your home in Jersey.....

1) Gov Bucky says in the video mere possession of the finished gun is illegal in NJ.

2)All I see in the statute is obtaining parts and manufacturing it in NJ is  covered, It doesn't mention or address... You've purchased,  obtained parts for, assembled in another state, then moved or brought it to your Jersey residence.

So as far as I can see the statute has nothing preventing or making possession illegal in example 2).... Is this correct or am I still missing something?

[SmittyMHS 603]

1st and foremost, you're in The Peoples Republic now. So unless (who ever you're talking about)  has a lot of disposable income they don't need they should store their illegal to possess in NJ weapon out of this state. Not worth the fight they'd have on their hands to prove a point.

 

[Redlines 202]

If you want you could be our first test case, then we would know for sure.

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

1 hour ago, fslater said:

This covers what I already know .........This is all about doing it IN Jersey

I think you need to expand your comprehension of the statute.

1 hour ago, fslater said:

You've purchased,  obtained parts for, assembled in another state, then moved or brought it to your Jersey residence.

In the hypothetical situation you're describing:

Doesn't matter whether you manufactured the firearm in NJ or outside of NJ, you have still obtained it.

You obtained it, it doesn't have a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer,  and you and the firearm are in NJ so you are subject to NJ jurisdiction.  You've violated the statute.

I get where you're coming from - I had the same idea a couple of years ago.  NJ has outlawed manufacturing for a long time, but there was nothing outlawing possession, so you could manufacture out of state and then bring into NJ and possess legally.

That changed with the passage of the new law.  The interpretation above is per Evan Nappen (asked him in person at a seminar) and per US Law Shield attorney.

[Zeke 5,504]

15 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

I think you need to expand your comprehension of the statute.

In the hypothetical situation you're describing:

Doesn't matter whether you manufactured the firearm in NJ or outside of NJ, you have still obtained it.

You obtained it, it doesn't have a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer,  and you and the firearm are in NJ so you are subject to NJ jurisdiction.  You've violated the statute.

I get where you're coming from - I had the same idea a couple of years ago.  NJ has outlawed manufacturing for a long time, but there was nothing outlawing possession, so you could manufacture out of state and then bring into NJ and possess legally.

That changed with the passage of the new law.  The interpretation above is per Evan Nappen (asked him in person at a seminar) and per US Law Shield attorney.

So essentially banned by type or lack of serial number and paper work?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

, I've poured over the law many times. 

 

 

Nothing in NJ says you can't own a personal manufactured gun in NJ. Nothing says it must have a serial number. 

I can't cite a law because one doesn't exist.

The law that does exist is as follows:

You cannot buy or own materials to make a firearm such as 80% recievers in NJ

You cannot manufacture in NJ either.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

50 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

I think you need to expand your comprehension of the statute.

In the hypothetical situation you're describing:

Doesn't matter whether you manufactured the firearm in NJ or outside of NJ, you have still obtained it.

You obtained it, it doesn't have a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer,  and you and the firearm are in NJ so you are subject to NJ jurisdiction.  You've violated the statute.

I get where you're coming from - I had the same idea a couple of years ago.  NJ has outlawed manufacturing for a long time, but there was nothing outlawing possession, so you could manufacture out of state and then bring into NJ and possess legally.

That changed with the passage of the new law.  The interpretation above is per Evan Nappen (asked him in person at a seminar) and per US Law Shield attorney.

Nappen is a jackass if he said any of that. 

The law specifically states "may be readily ¹[assembled with the purpose to manufacture an untraceable firearm] manufactured ²or otherwise assembled² , but which does not have the capacity to function as a firearm "

You can obtain materials to manufacture a firearm outside NJ, manufacture it outside of NJ, and then transport a legally manufactured firearm in NJ if it can fully function as a firearm.

At no point were materials obtained(non serialized) to manufacture a firearm IN NJ, which is the only thing that new law banned.

There are NO laws banning the transport of non serialized firearms into NJ that were manufactured by an individual out side of NJ.

[SmittyMHS 603]

Who wants to be the test case??? Show of hands????

 

I didn't think so.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

4 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

Who wants to be the test case??? Show of hands????

 

I didn't think so.

Do you really think Noone on this board has poly80 glock? Or completed ar80 lowers? 

Can someone reference the law you're all so scared of? Underline the parts your think apply.

[PK90 3,570]

Quote

Purchasing firearm parts to manufacture a firearm without a serial number.  In addition to any other criminal penalties provided under law, a person who, with the purpose to manufacture or otherwise assemble a firearm and without being registered or licensed do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes, purchases or otherwise obtains separately or as part of a kit a firearm frame or firearm receiver which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer or any combination of parts from which a firearm without a serial number may be readily manufactured or otherwise assembled, but which does not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless manufactured or otherwise assembled is guilty of a crime of the third degree. Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:1-8 or any other law, a conviction under this subsection shall not merge with a conviction for any other criminal offense and the court shall impose separate sentences upon a violation of this subsection and any other criminal offense.

As used in this subsection, "firearm frame or firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, such as the hammer, bolt or breechblock, action, and firing mechanism, and includes without limitation any object or part which is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and which may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means.

I see nothing wrong with assembling out of NJ, then possessing the completed firearm in NJ.

[ChrisJM981 924]

39 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Do you really think Noone on this board has poly80 glock? Or completed ar80 lowers? 

Can someone reference the law you're all so scared of? Underline the parts your think apply.

2C:39-3

m.   Covert or undetectable firearms.  Any person who knowingly possesses any covert firearm as defined in subsection hh. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, an undetectable firearm as defined in subsection ii. of N.J.S.2C:39-1

Sadly it says possesses, not manufacturers. 

Edit: I need to search on my computer. That might be proposed language never passed....

[PK90 3,570]

.

 

[ChrisJM981 924]

2 minutes ago, PK90 said:

 

The actual statute you referenced ..

 

Thanks Paul. I must have pulled up a proposed bill. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

12 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

2C:39-3

m.   Covert or undetectable firearms.  Any person who knowingly possesses any covert firearm as defined in subsection hh. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, an undetectable firearm as defined in subsection ii. of N.J.S.2C:39-1

Sadly it says possesses, not manufacturers. 

Edit: I need to search on my computer. That might be proposed language never passed....

unrelated to this discussion due to the following definitions:

 

h. “Covert firearm” means any firearm that is constructed in a shape or configuration such that it does not resemble a  handgun, rifle, shotgun, or machine gun including, but not limited to, a firearm that resembles a key-chain, pen, cigarette lighter, cigarette package, cellphone, smart phone, wallet, or cane. 

      ii.  “Undetectable firearm” means a firearm ³[constructed entirely of non-metal substances, or a firearm that does not include at least one major component, such as the barrel, slide, cylinder, frame or receiver of the firearm, that is made entirely of metal such that,] that: (1) after removal of all parts other than major components, is not as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal detectors calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar; or (2) includes a major component which,³ if the firearm were subjected to inspection by the types of detection devices commonly used at airports for security screening, ³[it]³ would not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component.^2  3“Undetectable firearm” shall not be construed to include a firearm subject to the provisions of paragraphs (3) through (6) of subsection (p) of 18 U.S.C. s.922.

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

14 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

2C:39-3

m.   Covert or undetectable firearms.  Any person who knowingly possesses any covert firearm as defined in subsection hh. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, an undetectable firearm as defined in subsection ii. of N.J.S.2C:39-1

Sadly it says possesses, not manufacturers. 

Edit: I need to search on my computer. That might be proposed language never passed....

an 80% is not covert.

 "Covert firearm" means any firearm that is constructed in a shape or configuration such that it does not resemble a handgun, rifle, shotgun, or machine gun including, but not limited to, a firearm that resembles a key-chain, pen, cigarette lighter, cigarette package, cellphone, smart phone, wallet, or cane.

ETA: Thanks @JackDaWack

[SmittyMHS 603]

54 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Do you really think Noone on this board has poly80 glock? Or completed ar80 lowers? 

Can someone reference the law you're all so scared of? Underline the parts your think apply.

Like I said...Show of hands???

Who wants to be 1st to challenge it? 

I'm all into "don't ask, don't tell" "let sleeping dogs lie" "loose lips sinks ships" "what they don't know can't hurt you" All those cliches.

[Downtownv 1,773]

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Nappen is a jackass if he said any of that. 

 

That's an understatement.

[Grapeshot 301]

So, a lot of people in the black powder community build their own rifles and pistols. Is this now illegal? 

[Zeke 5,504]

16 minutes ago, Grapeshot said:

So, a lot of people in the black powder community build their own rifles and pistols. Is this now illegal? 

Interesting...

Although only nj considers them a firearm, not the atf correct?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, SmittyMHS said:

Like I said...Show of hands???

Who wants to be 1st to challenge it? 

I'm all into "don't ask, don't tell" "let sleeping dogs lie" "loose lips sinks ships" "what they don't know can't hurt you" All those cliches.

I'm not sure what you mean. 

People in NJ are not challenging the law unless they have unfinished receivers not capable of being defined as a firearm... the law specifically states that what your being charged with possessing is not actually classified as a firearm... 

Plenty of people in NJ have complete firearms built outside NJ from 80% parts. Are you asking them to walk into a police station with them or something?

Call NJSP and ask if you can bring a non serialized firearm into NJ..

[SmittyMHS 603]

2 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I'm not sure what you mean. 

People in NJ are not challenging the law unless they have unfinished receivers not capable of being defined as a firearm... 

Plenty of people in NJ have complete firearms built outside NJ from 80% parts. Are you asking them walk into a police station with them or something?

What I'm saying is no one's gonna. Why would anyone open that can of worms?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

12 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

What I'm saying is no one's gonna. Why would anyone open that can of worms?

Just because it's a controversial hot topic in NJ doesn't change the legality of it. 

I will let other people judge for themselves what the risks are.. but I'm not going to pretend what is being asking is illegal...

Just like I wouldn't tell people hollow points shouldn't be used in NJ. Or that magazines must be unloaded when transported... I don't error on the side of caution.. I just follow what the law says.

I don't care about who openly talks about owning them, that's not really a point to be made. How many people admit to owning braced ar15 others?

[SmittyMHS 603]

55 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

. I just follow what the law says.

A lotta peps interpret what the law says differently then what a DA might.