Confused about self defense laws if someone breaks in

[Cheflife15 455]

Trying to find some definitive answers about self defense in the case of a break in. Let's say it's 2 am and my window is smashed. I have adt alarm system, is that an implied sign i don't want an intruder. At what point am i allowed to defend myself? 

[GRIZ 3,369]

You don't need any "implied sign" to tell an intruder you don't want him or her to break in.  If it's not their place and no one is there it's burglary. If someone there it's robbery.

You can't shoot someone who broke your window and offers no threat.

You are allowed to defend yourself in your home at any time unless the state has a must retreat law.  Even then if you have no way to escape you can defend yourself.   How you defend yourself is the question.  If you encounter the intruder and they turn and run you can't shoot them.  You can use deadly force when there is no other alternative to prevent death or serious injury to yourself or another. Everything else is in between and is dependent on the totality of the circumstances.

No short answer to your question.

[raz-0 1,259]

The bar for lethal force in NJ is in theory a credible threat of risk death, disfigurement, maiming/crippling, or rape of yourself or another. 

Outside the home you are obligated to retreat if you can do so safely.  If you cannot do so safely, or cannot do so without credibly abandoning another to such a fate, you can use lethal force in self defense. 

Inside your home in NJ, you have no obligation to retreat. 

Regardless of what happens, you will likely be prosecuted because NJ views bot you and the dead/injured guy as chattel of the state, and you must answer for harming their property. At which point they may decide they gave you permission to harm their property in the course of their property trying to harm you. 

[YankeeSC 1,204]

Gotta say this is so refreshing, all the new firearm owners asking questions! 

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

The law is pretty clear, and not what many expect for NJ. This from the jury instructions for using lethal force in self defense in your home.

"A reasonable belief exists when a defendant, to protect himself/herself or a third person, was in his/her own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon, and the encounter between the defendant and intruder(s) was/were sudden and unexpected, compelling the defendant to act instantly, and the defendant reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the defendant or others in the dwelling, or the defendant demanded that the intruder(s) disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder(s) refused to do so."

This boils down to 3 possibilities:

1. You were suddenly jumped in your own home, or a home where you are an invited guest

2. You reasonably perceive a threat from the intruder (i.e. you have a reason to think they are there to hurt you - it can't be a guess - e.g. they were carrying a gun or a knife) in your own home, or a home where you are an invited guest.

3. You told them to disarm, surrender or leave and they didn't do as instructed in your own home, or a home where you are an invited guest.

 I have been recommended to read The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen by Andrew Branca. I have just started it and it looks very informative so far.

Also check to see when the next class by Mike Wolhfert on the topic will be - he has been doing his class online and is tailored to just NJ https://www.justifiableforcetraining.com/upcomingevents

[45Doll 5,877]

I second The Law Of Self Defense! It's in the third edition.

My companion book for that is Massad Ayoob; Deadly Force - Understanding Your Right To Self-Defense

Ayoob discusses a number of trials including George Zimmerman to present how the legal system actually works.

And last but not least You Have The Right To Remain Innocent by James Duane. Possibly the most valuable $5 you will ever spend. He also talks about this subject on YouTube. (And he's faster than a TV talking head.)

When I introduce anyone to firearms and they tell me they intend to use them for self defense I recommend this trilogy. What happens to you at a trial can be much worse than what happens during a shooting.

[Cheflife15 455]

Appreciate it. Ill look into those books. Seems dangerous to ask a home intruder to please leave at 230 in the morning when they break into an alarmed house but rules are rules. Dont wanna be in a grave or prison cell. Ill do the research. Thank you all

[45Doll 5,877]

26 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

Appreciate it. Ill look into those books. Seems dangerous to ask a home intruder to please leave at 230 in the morning when they break into an alarmed house but rules are rules. Dont wanna be in a grave or prison cell. Ill do the research. Thank you all

"GET OUT!"

If they don't move fast enough, it's on them, not you.

[Cheflife15 455]

4 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

"GET OUT!"

If they don't move fast enough, it's on them, not you.

Is that enough? Im not a small guy. This whole thing seems absurd , always has. Ive been a believer in 2a my whole life and it seems nuts that you cant defend your family without seeing a knife/gun etc. Im gunna read the books but ultimatelt want to protect myself and my family. 

[Zeke 5,504]

5 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

Is that enough? Im not a small guy. This whole thing seems absurd , always has. Ive been a believer in 2a my whole life and it seems nuts that you cant defend your family without seeing a knife/gun etc. Im gunna read the books and ultimately protect myself first. 

If you are in fear for your life or others that you love, act accordingly.

and repeat after me, ad nauseam“ I was in fear for my life or others I love, I would like to speak to my lawyer “

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

16 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

Is that enough? Im not a small guy. This whole thing seems absurd , always has. Ive been a believer in 2a my whole life and it seems nuts that you cant defend your family without seeing a knife/gun etc. Im gunna read the books but ultimatelt want to protect myself and my family. 

Refusing to leave when told justifies deadly force. It's in the statute.

 

Castle doctrine is pretty strong in NJ.

[45Doll 5,877]

FYI Andrew Branca has a blog with text and video case reviews on self defense.

[Bt Doctur 188]

They always have a gun, if not you must supply the thowaway

[45Doll 5,877]

1 hour ago, Bt Doctur said:

They always have a gun, if not you must supply the thowaway

You forgot '/SarcOff/'.

[SIGMan Freud 93]

If someone forcibly breaks into your home, you're on pretty firm ground.If your drunk neighbor comes home late from bar hopping and walks through your unlocked front door and you take him out...things could go either way. 

I think the McClosky couple in St. Louis is an interesting one. I think they were entirely within their rights to "brandish" firearms as a violent mob swirled around their property. (The wife needs some gun safety training, I'll point out.) If the mob starts destroying their property, I think they're within their right to pick off a few. But already the lib prosecutor is threatening to prosecute them for just showing weapons. Know this - if some lib prosecutor wants to get in the papers, you'll be put through the gauntlet regardless of what the law actually says. 

[Zeke 5,504]

9 minutes ago, SIGMan Freud said:

If someone forcibly breaks into your home, you're on pretty firm ground.If your drunk neighbor comes home late from bar hopping and walks through your unlocked front door and you take him out...things could go either way. 

I think the McClosky couple in St. Louis is an interesting one. I think they were entirely within their rights to "brandish" firearms as a violent mob swirled around their property. (The wife needs some gun safety training, I'll point out.) If the mob starts destroying their property, I think they're within their right to pick off a few. But already the lib prosecutor is threatening to prosecute them for just showing weapons. Know this - if some lib prosecutor wants to get in the papers, you'll be put through the gauntlet regardless of what the law actually says. 

In this case it’s lawyers vs lawyers. It’s all theater imho. They are probably having linner or dunch together as we speak 

[NickySantoro 211]

If they're not found on your floor, are you involved?

[YankeeSC 1,204]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:57 PM, SIGMan Freud said:

If the mob starts destroying their property, I think they're within their right to pick off a few. 

I am not sure this is true anywhere in the US.  Lives must be in danger to use deadly force.

[Zeke 5,504]

1 hour ago, tomk62 said:

I am not sure this is true anywhere in the US.  Lives must be in danger to use deadly force.

https://www.usacarry.com/lethal-force-defense-property/
 

tejas, Montana, Washington. Others.

[RUTGERS95 890]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:45 AM, GRIZ said:

You don't need any "implied sign" to tell an intruder you don't want him or her to break in.  If it's not their place and no one is there it's burglary. If someone there it's robbery.

You can't shoot someone who broke your window and offers no threat.

You are allowed to defend yourself in your home at any time unless the state has a must retreat law.  Even then if you have no way to escape you can defend yourself.   How you defend yourself is the question.  If you encounter the intruder and they turn and run you can't shoot them.  You can use deadly force when there is no other alternative to prevent death or serious injury to yourself or another. Everything else is in between and is dependent on the totality of the circumstances.

No short answer to your question.

love your posts Griz

[GRIZ 3,369]

44 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

love your posts Griz

I gave you a like because they don't have a thanx.

[silverado427 10,715]

Knock - Knock