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EVANGELIONHD

Hello all from Sayreville

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It took 3 and half months back in 2015 with an attorney on the heels of the Highland Park Police Department (i have no criminal record etc) They did send letters to my then employer and told people in the vicinity I owned/liked guns. Detective Newton and Sgt Lancry  of the HPPD were at the office when i went to pick up my FID. Sgt Lancry actually told me to keep ammo in the glove box instead of the trunk, luckily for me i know NJ's gun laws inside and out and ignored every word he said. FYI, do not listen these fools, keep your guns unloaded and cased in the trunk of your car with the ammo separately! 

 

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109 days and still waiting not even a call for payment  
when is the payment for fid and p2p do in Sayreville 

from what she told me is that she will call me when they are ready 

I am assuming that is when I pay 

very little info on their website almost none 

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10 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Call them up and hassle them. You will need payment when you pick up unless they changed something from ~Jan-2020. 

Got email reply from her last week that they are processing September and October at this time and that the wait time is at least 5 months 

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27 minutes ago, Vtec45 said:

Got email reply from her last week that they are processing September and October at this time and that the wait time is at least 5 months 

So they aren't doing traffic enforcement, they have less crashes to clean up, and they somehow have less time to do this stuff with less actual duties? 

This got a lot worse once the town got a democrat mayor. We seriously need to take the basic licensing process to court. 

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1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

Call them up and hassle them. You will need payment when you pick up unless they changed something from ~Jan-2020. 

Do not hassle them!  They will blackball you and you will pay.  Go listen to the last GunForHire podcast and see what happened to the last guy that did that.  They issued him his permit after he bitched to the city council,  and the next day they recinded it making him go for a mental evaluation.

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30 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

Do not hassle them!  They will blackball you and you will pay.  Go listen to the last GunForHire podcast and see what happened to the last guy that did that.  They issued him his permit after he bitched to the city council,  and the next day they recinded it making him go for a mental evaluation.

I hassled them over the delays with mine. I got it just fine. 

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10 minutes ago, Vtec45 said:

Not trying to hustle them just looking for some clear info how to

To make sure l didn’t miss anything like the payment and now it is not getting processed because I did not pay

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

I hassled them over the delays with mine. I got it just fine. 

Go listen to the podcast if you haven't already.  They have the power to be jerkoffs and they used that power on this guy.  Now it is going to cost him thousands in lawyers fees just to get his permit which he already qualified for.  This is no joke.  The guys name is Avi.

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Like I said just trying to see if anyone in my town got theirs recently and when did they pay for the permits making sure I didn’t miss anything and being pushed to the side 

from the last conversation with them looks like I got another month 

l am always polite when I talk or email with them for an update 

not pushing 

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9 minutes ago, EVANGELIONHD said:

You pay for the fid and p2p the moment you pick them up. cash. she will call you to set up an appointment.

Some days will be before noon some days 1 to 5pm....  you can choose, bring face cover and ID. 

Thank You for clearing this for me 

Did you get any email notifications too or just a phone call 

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8 minutes ago, EVANGELIONHD said:

Now that you mention it.. yes I got an email from state telling me that my permits were approved but not to head to the PD just yet, that they were to contact me to tell me what to do, next day they called me.

Thank You that is what I needed to hear wait for email and than look out for the call

thanks again 

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2 hours ago, Tunaman said:

Do not hassle them!  They will blackball you and you will pay.  Go listen to the last GunForHire podcast and see what happened to the last guy that did that.  They issued him his permit after he bitched to the city council,  and the next day they recinded it making him go for a mental evaluation.

There is some truth this. 

Make too big a stink or come across as an unstable hot head and the FID application could be denied by the chief on that basis. Particularly when applying for the initial FID.

Not saying you should kiss their ass just be careful how you deal with them. 

 

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2 hours ago, Tunaman said:

Go listen to the podcast if you haven't already.  They have the power to be jerkoffs and they used that power on this guy.  Now it is going to cost him thousands in lawyers fees just to get his permit which he already qualified for.  This is no joke.  The guys name is Avi.

What is the full story on that? 

I listened to the march 14 podcast and they gave very few details.

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15 hours ago, Bomber said:

What is the full story on that? 

I listened to the march 14 podcast and they gave very few details.

I'm going to guess they did something stupid and gave them enough rope to hang him with. 

You hassle them by simply being polite and communicative. A LOT. Make it so that no matter what, the existence of your permit means work that is difficult to defer. They can put in the work getting their job done or can put in the work to make you make more work. 

 

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1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

I'm going to guess they did something stupid and gave them enough rope to hang him with. 

All I got was he is 19 years old.  

I'm guessing they denied/rescinded it under # 5 - N.J.S. 2C:58-3c

(5) To any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety or welfare; 
 

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Just as a FYI for everyone giving ideas here about how to pressure them to do faster work.

There is only 1 person doing all the paperwork since February 2020, and this person only works 2-3 days per week, so no mather how much in a rush you get to be is not going to happen any faster...

 

Also this person is super nice and attentive, my friend applied for 2 p2p and later realized that he only applied for 1, he contacted this person and had him straightened with the 2 p2p right away no hassles. I had 2 p2p. About to expire and contacted this person and told me to have them dropped at the PD she called me 6 days later to tell me that they were ready to pickup.

 

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52 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

I'm going to guess they did something stupid and gave them enough rope to hang him with. 

You hassle them by simply being polite and communicative. A LOT. Make it so that no matter what, the existence of your permit means work that is difficult to defer. They can put in the work getting their job done or can put in the work to make you make more work. 

 

From what I heard,  all he did was go to the town council meeting and asked why his permit was taking so long.  Apparently that was enough to shed light on the subject and he was issued his permit promptly.  Apparently someone didnt take too kindly to that fact that he complained and the permit was rescinded shortly thereafter,  and conditions were place on him requiring him to get mentally evaluated for no reason.  Nothing but an abuse of power.  He didnt do anything "stupid".

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20 minutes ago, EVANGELIONHD said:

Just as a FYI for everyone giving ideas here about how to pressure them to do faster work.

There is only 1 person doing all the paperwork since February 2020, and this person only works 2-3 days per week, so no mather how much in a rush you get to be is not going to happen any faster...

 

Also this person is super nice and attentive, my friend applied for 2 p2p and later realized that he only applied for 1, he contacted this person and had him straightened with the 2 p2p right away no hassles. I had 2 p2p. About to expire and contacted this person and told me to have them dropped at the PD she called me 6 days later to tell me that they were ready to pickup.

 

They can hire more people. That's been how it works, plus that individual taking vacation or getting ill for quite some time. Most municipalities have at least minimal coverage. Sayreville should as well. It's a police station. Being a cop is like 97% paperwork. It doesn't take any special skills or a magic applicant to have coverage. 

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20 minutes ago, EVANGELIONHD said:

Just as a FYI for everyone giving ideas here about how to pressure them to do faster work.

There is only 1 person doing all the paperwork since February 2020, and this person only works 2-3 days per week, so no mather how much in a rush you get to be is not going to happen any faster...

 

Also this person is super nice and attentive, my friend applied for 2 p2p and later realized that he only applied for 1, he contacted this person and had him straightened with the 2 p2p right away no hassles. I had 2 p2p. About to expire and contacted this person and told me to have them dropped at the PD she called me 6 days later to tell me that they were ready to pickup.

 

You are absolutely right she is doing her best and I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes with the volume of work she has to do plus replying to emails and returning phone calls 

I think we should just let her do her work and not waste her time with unnecessary phone calls or emails that may actually speed things up

spoke with her once over the phone no complaints there she was nice and when I emailed her she always replied in the same  day 

Thanks again for answering my question EVANGELIONHD

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Just now, Vtec45 said:

You are absolutely right she is doing her best and I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes with the volume of work she has to do plus replying to emails and returning phone calls 

I think we should just let her do her work and not waste her time with unnecessary phone calls or emails that may actually speed things up

Stop, stop you're making me cry, oh that poor woman..:cray:

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16 minutes ago, Bomber said:

Stop, stop you're making me cry, oh that poor woman..:cray:

Yeah seriously, you only have rights three days a week part time when they get around to it. 

I seriously do not understand why we don't have a case headed the way of SCOTUS aimed at the fact that an incorporated individual right is subject to open ended arbitrary and made up crap that isn't even an actual law. Even if you agree this much regulation is permitted, it seems a pretty low bar to require of the state. I suspect even teh state knows it, which is why FARS showed up. 

 

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17 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

I seriously do not understand why we don't have a case headed the way of SCOTUS aimed at the fact that an incorporated individual right is subject to open ended arbitrary and made up crap that isn't even an actual law. 

Actually permission for PD's to take their sweet time is law, sort of:

https://www.njgunlawyers.com/page.php?here=fidDelays

Adler v. Livak, "The Adler court thus sent a strong message to police departments throughout New Jersey. Its message applies to applications for FID cards, as well as to applications to purchase a handgun. That message is, “Officers, there's no hurry. Take your time. Drink your coffee. Except in the most egregious cases, the courts will allow you guys to put applicants' Second Amendment rights on hold."

"Adler's takeaway is that, although N.J.S. 2C:58-3d requires processing your FID application (or handgun purchase application) within thirty days, New Jersey courts refuse to enforce that requirement. New Jersey police agencies, aware that courts do not enforce the thirty-day requirement, take their sweet time. Your options then become to wait it out, or to say enough is enough and take the police department to court, or to just give up entirely". 

"Police know that few people are able to find the time or the money to take them to court. Police also know that even when people do take them to court and win, that “winning” accomplishes nothing more than the judge telling them to process the application. The judge may even give the police additional time to do so. The judge will impose no fine on the police. The judge will impose no requirement to reimburse your counsel fees. The judge will impose no requirement to pay court costs. There will be no official reprimand. For the police, “losing” has no down side at all. Put bluntly, police have no incentive to put down their damn coffee and do their job. And by the time your court hearing date even arrives, police might have completed their processing even without your having contacted the court at all". 

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2 hours ago, Bomber said:

Actually permission for PD's to take their sweet time is law, sort of:

https://www.njgunlawyers.com/page.php?here=fidDelays

Adler v. Livak, "The Adler court thus sent a strong message to police departments throughout New Jersey. Its message applies to applications for FID cards, as well as to applications to purchase a handgun. That message is, “Officers, there's no hurry. Take your time. Drink your coffee. Except in the most egregious cases, the courts will allow you guys to put applicants' Second Amendment rights on hold."

"Adler's takeaway is that, although N.J.S. 2C:58-3d requires processing your FID application (or handgun purchase application) within thirty days, New Jersey courts refuse to enforce that requirement. New Jersey police agencies, aware that courts do not enforce the thirty-day requirement, take their sweet time. Your options then become to wait it out, or to say enough is enough and take the police department to court, or to just give up entirely". 

"Police know that few people are able to find the time or the money to take them to court. Police also know that even when people do take them to court and win, that “winning” accomplishes nothing more than the judge telling them to process the application. The judge may even give the police additional time to do so. The judge will impose no fine on the police. The judge will impose no requirement to reimburse your counsel fees. The judge will impose no requirement to pay court costs. There will be no official reprimand. For the police, “losing” has no down side at all. Put bluntly, police have no incentive to put down their damn coffee and do their job. And by the time your court hearing date even arrives, police might have completed their processing even without your having contacted the court at all". 

It isn't law, it's precedent. To boot it is precedent set prior to SCOTUS declaring the 2nd is both an individual right and incorporated. IMO it needs review of the very basics in light of subsequent precedent by a superior court that disagrees with the premise behind it. Additionally it strikes me that it would run afoul of the equal protection clause. "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." It seems to me that there are drastically different processes for different people. Then there is the question of, at the very least, the open ended "investigation" used and abused by the police departments after FARS. If that doesn't meet the requirements of the arbitrary and capricious test, I don't know what does. 

I'm not a lawyer, but I have trouble understanding why this wouldn't be a viable tactic. Tag on some monetary damages by a reasonable rationale and let it rip. I know this shit process has cost me many days off from work, which have a nominal value. 

 

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33 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

but I have trouble understanding why this wouldn't be a viable tactic. Tag on some monetary damages by a reasonable rationale and let it rip. I know this shit process has cost me many days off from work, which have a nominal value. 

 

That was mentioned in the above link, suing for damages:

"Here's another idea: Sue the police department, not to obtain your card but, rather, for damages for denying you your rights under the Second Amendment. This “denial” will probably have been for a few weeks or, possibly a few months. How much will a jury decide that such delay is worth, in dollars and cents? Will the case even reach a jury? There is a court-made concept called qualified immunity that precludes recovery against public officials when the right sought to be enforced was one that was not previously “clearly established.” This would be an uphill proposition that could be very expensive. Were we to prevail, however, the court could order the police department to pay reasonable attorney's fees under federal statutes 42 U.S.C. § 1983 and 42 U.S.C. § 1988".

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